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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug 2011, 17:10 
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Kindness, Generosity, Loyalty, Laughter, Honesty all combine to make the sixth element-
MAGIC!

(Reference to MLP: Friendship is Magic, episode 2.)

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug 2011, 18:54 
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In the older days of Aidis, one's family connections were extremely important. As ancient Aidis operated on a clan/tribe system similar to that of Pre-Islamic Arabia, being part of any of the established main tribes was more than enough to qualify you as having some worth. Being part of one of the more powerful or famous tribes, of course, made you even more worthy even if you did jack shit. People who were outside of the tribe system or were foreign immigrants (particularly those who were not considered to have been true descendants of the Aidisese's ancestors, the Djakhetians) were looked down upon; however, it was possible for foreign clans or tribes to gain "tribe" status, especially later on. In the later eras of Aidis, as the tribe/clan system diminished in importance due to massive population changes, nationalism replacing tribal loyalties, and so forth, knowing one's ancestry was still something that could bring you a bit of worth in the eyes of others, especially if you could trace your ancestry directly to one of the original founders of each of the major tribes.

The Aidisese also value caution and patience. A person who is cautious and patient in the heat of the moment, or in difficult situations, is more respected than a rash and/or outspoken one. The most honored people are often those who can articulate their demands and opinions loudly enough, but with enough caution and patience that others do not feel overwhelmed.


Lastly, being able to draw double-headed eagles properly will probably get you a lot of respect, as well as having a sexy signature.

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug 2011, 21:29 
rupestrian
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the tyoe value fertility above all things. How many children you had, and how many you helped to raise, make you a more or less valuable person (explained by the fact that they did almost go extinct at one point of their history and that they think humans are powerful only because there are many of them).
Sterile people (or partner of sterile people since they can't know who's at "fault"), on the other hand, are quickly turned into outcasts and expected to leave their village.

Knowledge (especially that of plants, and of History) is also very important (although, ironically, the outcasts are often the ones with the best knowledge of the past but are still seen as clearly inferior to 'normal' tyoe)

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug 2011, 22:04 
runic
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Tagath wrote:
Sterile people (or partner of sterile people since they can't know who's at "fault"), on the other hand, are quickly turned into outcasts and expected to leave their village.


Amusing, given they aren't exactly able to pass their 'sterile genes' onto the children they can't have, but I doubt the outcasts would appreciate that particular irony. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Fri 05 Aug 2011, 22:39 
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Micamo wrote:
Your people would hate my people. Midh say (though do not always believe) that all relationships between people exist to serve both parties. If Bob gaining at the expense of the Alice, then she has every right to cancel the deal and he has no right to expect it to continue.


P: "Son, this firm is built on integrity and wisdom."
F: "Explain integrity, please, father."
P: "By integrity I mean we always keep all our promises to the letter, no matter what the cost."
F: "Thank you, father. Will you explain wisdom as well?"
P: "By wisdom, I mean we don't make promises."

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Mon 08 Aug 2011, 11:16 
rupestrian
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Lodhas wrote:
Tagath wrote:
Sterile people (or partner of sterile people since they can't know who's at "fault"), on the other hand, are quickly turned into outcasts and expected to leave their village.


Amusing, given they aren't exactly able to pass their 'sterile genes' onto the children they can't have, but I doubt the outcasts would appreciate that particular irony. :P


but they would still eat food that could have gone to worthy people and their children, thus making them no better than parasites in the view of some tyoe.
And the exile of childless people is also meant to make sure no one will chose to voluntarily not have children. The tyoe don't joke with that sort of things.

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Mon 08 Aug 2011, 17:24 
runic
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Tagath wrote:
Lodhas wrote:
Tagath wrote:
Sterile people (or partner of sterile people since they can't know who's at "fault"), on the other hand, are quickly turned into outcasts and expected to leave their village.


Amusing, given they aren't exactly able to pass their 'sterile genes' onto the children they can't have, but I doubt the outcasts would appreciate that particular irony. :P


but they would still eat food that could have gone to worthy people and their children, thus making them no better than parasites in the view of some tyoe.
And the exile of childless people is also meant to make sure no one will chose to voluntarily not have children. The tyoe don't joke with that sort of things.

Ah, I see.

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Sat 13 Aug 2011, 15:56 
sinic
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Both the ancient Yokash pirates and the ancient peoples of the Viksor placed a great deal of importance on "honour":

Quote:
The concept of honour was held to be of great importance in the Old Religion of the Viksor. One’s honour was held to be an inherent part of every living thing, which could be affected positively or negatively by one’s actions. Human honour remained after death, and was the main deciding factor with regards to one’s entry into Paradise (souls who had not been sufficiently honourable in life would have to continue to strive for honour after death, therefore; something made more difficult by the fact that non-admittance to Paradise was in itself dishonourable). It was also possible to be thrown from Paradise due to insufficient honour.

A similar concept was also found in the Ichian religions, and has parallels in the Ngamkian religion. The concept survived into the earliest incarnation of Damaism in the Viksor, although it is largely extinct today.

Actions that could add to one’s honour included:

• Helping or giving to those in need
• Eating or drinking a great deal in one sitting
• Making sacrifices to the gods
• Attaining a high position socially
• Winning in fair combat
• Conquering one’s neighbours

Dishonourable actions included:

• Lying
• Stealing
• Committing murder
• Allowing one’s ancestors or kin to be insulted


The state of affairs with the Yokash was even more brutalistic, with little distinction between honour and military prowess.

Modern concepts of honour are (fairly) similar to those of our own society. It does not play so important a part in life as it did in former times.

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep 2011, 13:03 
roman
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Curlyjimsam wrote:
Modern concepts of honour are (fairly) similar to those of our own society.

So there is no honour.

Curlyjimsam wrote:
It does not play so important a part in life as it did in former times.

As you said that their concepts of honour are (fairly) similar to thouse of our own society, and our (western) society essentialy lacks that concept:

One of the reason for so many problems in our real (western) society is exactly that lack of honour. Honour does not mean military prowess for me. Honour could provide some kind of ''negative feedback'' to our society and that way would help to solve some otherwise difficult to tackle social problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep 2011, 17:23 
sinic
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Tanni wrote:
Curlyjimsam wrote:
Modern concepts of honour are (fairly) similar to those of our own society.

So there is no honour.

Curlyjimsam wrote:
It does not play so important a part in life as it did in former times.

As you said that their concepts of honour are (fairly) similar to thouse of our own society, and our (western) society essentialy lacks that concept:

One of the reason for so many problems in our real (western) society is exactly that lack of honour. Honour does not mean military prowess for me. Honour could provide some kind of ''negative feedback'' to our society and that way would help to solve some otherwise difficult to tackle social problems.


There is definitely honour in our society. It may be known as politeness, or just "being a douche" or "being a slag". There are many do's and dont's.


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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep 2011, 18:04 
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I recommend you please don't waste your time trying to reason with him.

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep 2011, 19:40 
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We'll see.


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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Wed 07 Sep 2011, 18:53 
roman
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Valoski wrote:
Tanni wrote:
Curlyjimsam wrote:
Modern concepts of honour are (fairly) similar to those of our own society.

So there is no honour.

Curlyjimsam wrote:
It does not play so important a part in life as it did in former times.

As you said that their concepts of honour are (fairly) similar to thouse of our own society, and our (western) society essentialy lacks that concept:

One of the reason for so many problems in our real (western) society is exactly that lack of honour. Honour does not mean military prowess for me. Honour could provide some kind of ''negative feedback'' to our society and that way would help to solve some otherwise difficult to tackle social problems.


There is definitely honour in our society. It may be known as politeness, or just "being a douche" or "being a slag". There are many do's and dont's.

It doesn't entirely lack honour, of course, but behaving honourable isn't required by society or by law. You are required to behave lawful, otherwise you'll get punished. But you aren't required to behave honourable. If you do, it's ok, if you don't, then nobody can sue you for that unless it incidentally also conflicts with some law. What I mean is that our society isn't based on honour, but on law. Honour is not just do's and don't's, and not all do's and don't's are about honour. (That makes me wonder whether that ''do's'' and ''don't's'' is correct orthographically.)

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Wed 07 Sep 2011, 19:16 
sinic
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Krov was right.


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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Sat 24 Sep 2011, 00:32 
roman
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Tanni wrote:
It doesn't entirely lack honour, of course, but behaving honourable isn't required by society or by law. You are required to behave lawful, otherwise you'll get punished. But you aren't required to behave honourable. If you do, it's ok, if you don't, then nobody can sue you for that unless it incidentally also conflicts with some law. What I mean is that our society isn't based on honour, but on law. Honour is not just do's and don't's, and not all do's and don't's are about honour. (That makes me wonder whether that ''do's'' and ''don't's'' is correct orthographically.)


Uhm ... hm. OK, that argument will go nowhere.
_____________

Anyway, maybe I should mention that in my sci-fi world Xala honor is tied up in their ability to do their job. If a cloned Xala should become so disabled as to be unable to work, they might well commit ritual suicide by poisoning themselves or soaring high in the air and diving, then deliberately failing to pull up (did I mention that these are flying reptiles I'm talking about?). Thankfully, they can regenerate limbs and have highly advanced medical technology, so usually they live around 300 years or so before deterioration due to aging catches up with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 14:32 
sinic
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It's funny how similar everyone's answers are. "Kindness, charity, blah blah blah." Honor is a concept of the weak. It's a label they give to self-disserving actions to make them feel good about themselves. "I turned her down because she was drunk. If she still wants to have sex with me when she's sober, then I'll consent." "I confessed to my professor that I cheated on the final. I'll have to re-take the class, but it was worth it."

*rolleyes*

The weak want to feel good about the things that make them weak. They want to demonize the things that make the strong strong, rather than shed weakness and become strong themselves. What better way than some high-falutin', ill-defined notion of "honor?" Just call the things you do honorable, and call the things you refuse to do dishonorable. Viola! You're a good person!

But you're still weak.

I wonder how many who answered "kindness and rainbows" share their definition of honor with their conpeoples...

Coincidentally, most of my own conpeoples tend to have rather "chairty and lollipops" views of worthiness or honor or whatever. Though naturally, such concepts are typically more common among the lower rungs of society. The upper crust typically value wealth and power. I should probably go ahead and specifically make a conpeoples who share my disregard for "sunshine and unicorn" morality.

Tanni wrote:
This is considered cowardry and terrorism. The word for coward and for terrorist is the same: fochvolut.

Do they have a less-intense word than fochvolut? Because doing something like ratting out your friends to, say, a teacher to save your own hide is cowardly. Using the same word you use for terrorism would be a bit much, though.

eldin raigmore wrote:
Micamo wrote:
Your people would hate my people. Midh say (though do not always believe) that all relationships between people exist to serve both parties. If Bob gaining at the expense of the Alice, then she has every right to cancel the deal and he has no right to expect it to continue.


P: "Son, this firm is built on integrity and wisdom."
F: "Explain integrity, please, father."
P: "By integrity I mean we always keep all our promises to the letter, no matter what the cost."
F: "Thank you, father. Will you explain wisdom as well?"
P: "By wisdom, I mean we don't make promises."

Hehehe! That's great. Is that from something?

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 16:50 
cleardarkness
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Veris wrote:
It's funny how similar everyone's answers are. "Kindness, charity, blah blah blah." Honor is a concept of the weak. It's a label they give to self-disserving actions to make them feel good about themselves. "I turned her down because she was drunk. If she still wants to have sex with me when she's sober, then I'll consent." "I confessed to my professor that I cheated on the final. I'll have to re-take the class, but it was worth it."

*rolleyes*

The weak want to feel good about the things that make them weak. They want to demonize the things that make the strong strong, rather than shed weakness and become strong themselves. What better way than some high-falutin', ill-defined notion of "honor?" Just call the things you do honorable, and call the things you refuse to do dishonorable. Viola! You're a good person!


My my. I suppose someone as psychotic as you has no idea what it's like to feel sympathy.

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 16:55 
moderator
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Veris wrote:
It's funny how similar everyone's answers are. "Kindness, charity, blah blah blah." Honor is a concept of the weak. It's a label they give to self-disserving actions to make them feel good about themselves. "I turned her down because she was drunk. If she still wants to have sex with me when she's sober, then I'll consent." "I confessed to my professor that I cheated on the final. I'll have to re-take the class, but it was worth it."

Glad to see you've forgone your rule about giving unsolicited opinions!

Could you expound on what you mean by "weakness" here? I think the way I understand it is different from the way you're using it.

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 17:01 
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A simple run down:

Demons: Always fight a battle fairly and never cheat. However, never run from battle-to a demon, it is better to be killed than die normally. Only form alliances for the purpose of aclomplishing something, then disband as quick as possible.

Kron: Always treat tech wth respect. People work better in teams than alone. It's better to run away than to be killed because you foolishly stay in battle. And, seriously: treat Mechana-Tech extremely well.

The demons and Kron don't get along with each other very well. The Revelations stuff didn't help either, though that was more the Paz's fault, combined with the Primordials being insane. And the Angels caused just as much damage. Doesn't stop the Kron from blaming it on the Demons anyway, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Worth/Honour
PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct 2011, 20:21 
cleardarkness
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Veris wrote:
Coincidentally, most of my own conpeoples tend to have rather "chairty and lollipops" views of worthiness or honor or whatever. Though naturally, such concepts are typically more common among the lower rungs of society. The upper crust typically value wealth and power. I should probably go ahead and specifically make a conpeoples who share my disregard for "sunshine and unicorn" morality.
This looks like the beginning of some preaching. Pass.

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