Diachronic Conlanging open world

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qwed117
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by qwed117 »

smappy wrote:
eldin raigmore wrote:
smappy wrote:I think having a 30-degree axial tilt would be fairly reasonable, although 25 would be more Earthlike.
IMO it's your decision, unless many of the other posters to this thread disagree with you.

Anyway, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_ ... upiters.22 seems to suggest doubt that a system with a habitable planet needs even one gas-giant.
Is 30 degrees of axial tilt okay with everyone?
smappy wrote: eccentricity: 0.001±0.0001 over a cycle of 100,000 years (as opposed to Earth's 0.0019±0.012 over a cycle of 100,000 years)
axial tilt: 30±0.2° over a cycle of 50,000 years (as opposed to Earth's 23.3±1.2° over a cycle of 41,000 years)
axial precession: cycle of 50,000 years (as opposed to Earth's cycle of 26,000 years)
I guess these numbers are okay then? Anyone disagree?

Apparently this article also suggests that we'd do just fine without Jupiter— I think maybe for the Teles system we only need one gas giant, or maybe several that are just a little farther out. On the other hand we might need more rocky planets if this is so. The article mentioned that without the gravitational field of Jupiter, the asteroid belt would probably have become a single rocky planet.

Maybe: sun, rocky planet, Teles, rocky planet, distant gas planet(s) (like two maybe) and Teles has one Moon-size moon. What are people's opinions?

Also thanks eldin raigmore for bringing up these important points! [<3]
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by loglorn »

I did the climate map with earth like axial tilt, but it is inexact enough so we can fiddle with that. I'm fine with thirty degrees. I'd personally like a large icy moon.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by eldin raigmore »

Just in case I need to say it: I'm fine with all that, too.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Sḿtuval »

I haven't been on in a while a I wanted to make sure you all know I'm not dead. I skimmed through the last few pages of posts but I'm still a little lost. If anyone could give me an idea of what I should be thinking about/working on then that would be great.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

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Sḿtuval wrote:I haven't been on in a while a I wanted to make sure you all know I'm not dead. I skimmed conversationthrough the last few pages of posts but I'm still a little lost. If anyone could give me an idea of what I should be thinking about/working on then that would be great.
You'll have to go back to page 19. k1-something wanted you to see something about Ydtobagan climate. So you should look at that, but with our current conversation, you may need to disregard that. (I wrote this from my phone, that's why it was garbled)
Last edited by qwed117 on 02 Aug 2015 17:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by smappy »

Hi Sḿtuval! I feel like I haven't met you yet, so nice to meet you!

Introducing the Teles Progress Report [xD]

Basically what's happened is we've made a lot of maps, revamped the wiki, gotten a few more language families on Teles, added detail to more language families, finalized the continent boundaries, and we're just finishing up finalizing some notes about the solar system and the physical planet itself.

Things we haven't done yet: created a full physical map of Teles, discussed agriculture in enough detail, made maps showing interactions between all the language families, named or written wiki pages on most geographical features, fleshed out some of the skimpier language families.

Also I feel like we should transfer the worldbuilding we just did onto the wiki page about Teles.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Creyeditor »

I thought this was a diachronic conlanging project. Shouldn't the focus be on the diachronical development of the language families?
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Artaxes »

Creyeditor wrote:I thought this was a diachronic conlanging project. Shouldn't the focus be on the diachronical development of the language families?
Something like that ?
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by loglorn »

We are focusing on diachronical developments, but it is quite slower to work out and we don't have what to talk about for long whiles while we are working on our langs. But the langs have to be spoken somewhere by someone, so we must work out the planet and the cultures as much as the langs
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Creyeditor »

Thank you loglorn [:)]
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Ahzoh »

Doing some numbers, I realized that the sound changes from Proto-Hasjakam to Vrkhazhian would only be plausible within 3100 years... and the Yat-Vrkhazh, as the first empire, rises around 2200BK, so that leads for Proto-Hasjakam arising in 5200BK... it might be necessary to extend the diachronic 3ven further: the proto-language of 10,000BK is Proto-Ashiran.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by k1234567890y »

Ahzoh wrote:Doing some numbers, I realized that the sound changes from Proto-Hasjakam to Vrkhazhian would only be plausible within 3100 years... and the Yat-Vrkhazh, as the first empire, rises around 2200BK, so that leads for Proto-Hasjakam arising in 5200BK... it might be necessary to extend the diachronic 3ven further: the proto-language of 10,000BK is Proto-Ashiran.
I am curious on what basis did you do this calculation? any formula or rules to make such a calculation? :)
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Ahzoh »

k1234567890y wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:Doing some numbers, I realized that the sound changes from Proto-Hasjakam to Vrkhazhian would only be plausible within 3100 years... and the Yat-Vrkhazh, as the first empire, rises around 2200BK, so that leads for Proto-Hasjakam arising in 5200BK... it might be necessary to extend the diachronic 3ven further: the proto-language of 10,000BK is Proto-Ashiran.
I am curious on what basis did you do this calculation? any formula or rules to make such a calculation? :)
Only that it would be comparatively few sound changes to occur within 10,000. Unless the rest of Teles languages undergoes relatively slow changes over a period of time like that, then it is terribly unrealistic to have PIE-length of time and only have six levels of sound change between six descendant languages.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Sḿtuval »

smappy wrote:Hi Sḿtuval! I feel like I haven't met you yet, so nice to meet you!

Introducing the Teles Progress Report [xD]

Basically what's happened is we've made a lot of maps, revamped the wiki, gotten a few more language families on Teles, added detail to more language families, finalized the continent boundaries, and we're just finishing up finalizing some notes about the solar system and the physical planet itself.

Things we haven't done yet: created a full physical map of Teles, discussed agriculture in enough detail, made maps showing interactions between all the language families, named or written wiki pages on most geographical features, fleshed out some of the skimpier language families.

Also I feel like we should transfer the worldbuilding we just did onto the wiki page about Teles.
I'm not as done as I'd like to be with the branches of my ydtobogantiaky language family but I'd say I'm ready to at least begin to work out how interaction between my peoples and those who speak Gigxkpoyan and Latian languages would take place. I believe loglorn and Fleur are the creators of those families.

Now what's all this about agriculture? (give me the short version please)

Nice to meet you too! You even went through all the effort of copy-pasting the accented m in my user :) (which makes it a big pain in the butt to log in on my phone)
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by loglorn »

We now have a climate map and based on it we've worked out where agriculture has started. We've also forwarded the start date to 7500BK, and thus the Proto Latian people (and some other guys in Amutet) have agriculture already. Those crops will reach and expand through the Gigxkpoyan before 6000BK. But they won't enter the Ytdobogan peninsula, because they can't be grown in its climate.

It's hard to get the society you need in order to develop writing running without agriculture, you either wait until 3000BK to domesticate crops of your own, or you say you got a non agricultural civilization because your resources where plenty. And you can even leave huge monoliths in the middle of nowhere after you run out of resources.
Diachronic Conlanging is the path to happiness, given time. [;)]

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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

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loglorn wrote:We now have a climate map and based on it we've worked out where agriculture has started. We've also forwarded the start date to 7500BK, and thus the Proto Latian people (and some other guys in Amutet) have agriculture already. Those crops will reach and expand through the Gigxkpoyan before 6000BK. But they won't enter the Ytdobogan peninsula, because they can't be grown in its climate.
I think probably some of the crops can be grown in the north of the Ytdobogȧn peninsula. Crops from the Songke area will also probably diffuse to Ytdobogȧn depending on if the Gigxkpoyan people conduct trade between southwest Avesta and the Ytdobogȧn peninsula.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...

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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Sḿtuval »

Just wanted to post an image of the location of Iru, capital of whatever civilization speaks Kauzasian.

Image

Also I'm open to the "enough resources to not need agriculture" solution for ydtobogan peoples.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by smappy »

Sḿtuval wrote:Also I'm open to the "enough resources to not need agriculture" solution for ydtobogan peoples.
[+1] I like that idea.

Also:

Image

Its resolution is better. I posted a version on the wiki too.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world...

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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by k1234567890y »

more thoughts:
Spoiler:
A sedimentary hunter-gatherer society may not be able to sustain for thousands of years, however, I think there are methods that can compensate: first, a large surplus of a single kind of natural resource(for example, a large sum of wild wheat) means that people who try to cultivate their own food are more likely to encounter suitable animals/plants that can be cultivated, even the probability is low, if the sample size is large(note: sample size does not effect the probablility), it is more likely to see a low-incidence event in the sample, even the probability of X is 1/1,000,000,000, if the sample size is larger than 1,000,000,000, we are expected to see one incident of X in the samples(however, if the sample size is small, we are not expected to see any incident of X, as the probability of X is 1/1,000,000,000.) In our world, mesoamerican civilization was boosted by the gene mutation that caused maize to emerge in about 2500 BC, otherwise, mesoamericans may need to wait for the Chinese people, Hmong-Mien peoples, Tai-Kadai peoples or Austronesian peoples to bring plants like rice and taro to them to develop civilization, in my opinion; second, it is possible that agriculture can be boosted through trading, by importing seeds and livestock that are suitable for the climate.
ok, that are all rants.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by qwed117 »

Spoiler:
k1234567890y wrote:more thoughts:
A sedimentary hunter-gatherer society may not be able to sustain for thousands of years, however, I think there are methods that can compensate: first, a large surplus of a single kind of natural resource(for example, a large sum of wild wheat) means that people who try to cultivate their own food are more likely to encounter suitable animals/plants that can be cultivated, even the probability is low, if the sample size is large(note: sample size does not effect the probablility), it is more likely to see a low-incidence event in the sample, even the probability of X is 1/1,000,000,000, if the sample size is larger than 1,000,000,000, we are expected to see one incident of X in the samples(however, if the sample size is small, we are not expected to see any incident of X, as the probability of X is 1/1,000,000,000.) In our world, mesoamerican civilization was boosted by the gene mutation that caused maize to emerge in about 2500 BC, otherwise, mesoamericans may need to wait for the Chinese people, Hmong-Mien peoples, Tai-Kadai peoples or Austronesian peoples to bring plants like rice and taro to them to develop civilization, in my opinion; second, it is possible that agriculture can be boosted through trading, by importing seeds and livestock that are suitable for the climate.
ok, that are all rants.
I hate to nitpick on a rant, but let's take a look
k1234567890y wrote:A sedimentary hunter-gatherer society
Sedentary; Hunter-Gatherer societies have many limiting factors preventing them from being sedentary. They would need an efficient hunt-gather system.
k1234567890y wrote: first, a large surplus of a single kind of natural resource(for example, a large sum of wild wheat) means that people who try to cultivate their own food are more likely to encounter suitable animals/plants that can be cultivated,
I can't really tell what you are trying to say. My guess is something like "If there is a large population of a single plant genera, then the people will use only the most cultivate-able plants, thus allowing for greater crop output". Civilisations do usually develop on a single variety that they have cultivated and grown for their uses, but that doesn't preclude the idea that a civilisation might have several cash crops. As civilisations become more advanced, multiple crops often take the place of a cash crop.
k1234567890y wrote: even the probability is low, if the sample size is large(note: sample size does not effect the probablility), it is more likely to see a low-incidence event in the sample, even the probability of X is 1/1,000,000,000, if the sample size is larger than 1,000,000,000, we are expected to see one incident of X in the samples(however, if the sample size is small, we are not expected to see any incident of X, as the probability of X is 1/1,000,000,000.)
I hope everyone here knows that an increased sample size shows a higher occurrence, but a similar occurrence rate
k1234567890y wrote:In our world, mesoamerican civilization was boosted by the gene mutation that caused maize to emerge in about 2500 BC, otherwise, mesoamericans may need to wait for the Chinese people, Hmong-Mien peoples, Tai-Kadai peoples or Austronesian peoples to bring plants like rice and taro to them to develop civilization,
I'm starting to question your sanity while writing this (and mine in replying to it).
While Maize is the cash-crop of Mesoamerica, sedentarism was sparked by fishing. The first thing they cultured was not Maize, but Squash (in 8000 BC), Maize came in 5000 BC, 3000 years after Mesoamerican agriculture began. I will admit that a mutation was necessary in adapting corn from the jungles of Panama to the semidesert of Mexico. Why this has any relation to any Southeast Asian peoples, I know not; there was no known contact between Southeast Asian peoples and the Mesoamericans.
k1234567890y wrote: second, it is possible that agriculture can be boosted through trading, by importing seeds and livestock that are suitable for the climate.
I believe we discussed this earlier around page 19. While that might seem correct, one has to note that agriculture may be improved by native selection.
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