Diachronic Conlanging open world

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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by cntrational »

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Nautlic expansion from 10,000 BK, 6,000 BK, and 2,000 BK.
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Felbah
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Felbah »

Can I ask everyone to stick with every 1,000 years? I like the look of these expansion maps, but a: It doesn't give an indication of an actual set time period's expansion, and b: it is beginning to infringe upon other people's rights to land. I would say, if you want to claim the land owned by another, then you can negotiate with them whether you want a war or simply for their Urheimat to move as they migrate somewhere. Remember - this is not a collaborative project about who can get the most land. If you want to do that, then there are plenty of games where you build up a single empire. This is about who can make the most interesting world and culture, and if that means that other languages are absorbed into a greater language, or that languages borrow from each other, or that one language fades out of existence, that's fine, but check that out with the person in question. I don't mean to sound repressive - as stated, this is open and anything goes, but remember to be mindful about what other people think when you make territorial gains. And if, like Proto Ular, you want to be absorbed into another language family, that is fine, do that.

Also, another unrelated point, since the one landmass to the north is meant to be connected, I have decided (in a decision which can be reversed if wanted) that we should use this map instead:
Image
It is the exact same map, with the exact same civilizations on them, just shuffled around a bit so that it looks neater. What does everyone think?
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Iyionaku »

Felbah wrote: Also, the three continents need native names:
We know about Amutet, Amalan and Ular (which I will need to Amutetikicize also... We have no /r/... Perhaps ʊɬas?), and we are getting into depth by naming Amalan in various other languages, but we still need the names of the other continents. They can be defined by you as well as by me, so just go for your life and name them whatever you wish.
I don't think that you will have to take a name given by people thousands of kilometres away. Maybe you could give it a name like "strange-speaking", as Ular (which will be spoken all over the island, except from the Latian colonies) is tonal and hase some phones in it that Amutetikam doesn't have.
Felbah wrote:And if, like Proto Ular, you want to be absorbed into another language family, that is fine, do that.
Well, I think I changed my mind, I don't want the Ular to be assimilated any more. [:)] Latian colonies on the coast of Ular island in the north will cause a strong areal contact, I think. So the Ular, which was very consecutive until then, will split into two branches: One which is strongly affected by the Latian Language (taking the e, i, and the fricatives) and loses its tonal aspect, and another one which will stay more aboriginal.

And another one: Is it ok if I invent a writing system too? Maybe a few hundred years after the Ydtobogȧn system?

Another edital question: How realistic is it that a language owns the approximate [j], but not the vocal ?
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by cntrational »

I like the new map better, so let's stick with it!
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Felbah »

Iyionaku wrote:
Felbah wrote: Also, the three continents need native names:
We know about Amutet, Amalan and Ular (which I will need to Amutetikicize also... We have no /r/... Perhaps ʊɬas?), and we are getting into depth by naming Amalan in various other languages, but we still need the names of the other continents. They can be defined by you as well as by me, so just go for your life and name them whatever you wish.
I don't think that you will have to take a name given by people thousands of kilometres away. Maybe you could give it a name like "strange-speaking", as Ular (which will be spoken all over the island, except from the Latian colonies) is tonal and hase some phones in it that Amutetikam doesn't have.
Felbah wrote:And if, like Proto Ular, you want to be absorbed into another language family, that is fine, do that.
Well, I think I changed my mind, I don't want the Ular to be assimilated any more. [:)] Latian colonies on the coast of Ular island in the north will cause a strong areal contact, I think. So the Ular, which was very consecutive until then, will split into two branches: One which is strongly affected by the Latian Language (taking the e, i, and the fricatives) and loses its tonal aspect, and another one which will stay more aboriginal.

And another one: Is it ok if I invent a writing system too? Maybe a few hundred years after the Ydtobogȧn system?

Another edital question: How realistic is it that a language owns the approximate [j], but not the vocal ?

That all makes sense. I understand completely. I think that is a much more balanced approach.
And with the not [j] conundrum, the same is true of Amutetikam. I would say it is fine.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by k1234567890y »

Felbah wrote:Can I ask everyone to stick with every 1,000 years? I like the look of these expansion maps, but a: It doesn't give an indication of an actual set time period's expansion, and b: it is beginning to infringe upon other people's rights to land. I would say, if you want to claim the land owned by another, then you can negotiate with them whether you want a war or simply for their Urheimat to move as they migrate somewhere. Remember - this is not a collaborative project about who can get the most land. If you want to do that, then there are plenty of games where you build up a single empire. This is about who can make the most interesting world and culture, and if that means that other languages are absorbed into a greater language, or that languages borrow from each other, or that one language fades out of existence, that's fine, but check that out with the person in question. I don't mean to sound repressive - as stated, this is open and anything goes, but remember to be mindful about what other people think when you make territorial gains. And if, like Proto Ular, you want to be absorbed into another language family, that is fine, do that.

Also, another unrelated point, since the one landmass to the north is meant to be connected, I have decided (in a decision which can be reversed if wanted) that we should use this map instead:
Image
It is the exact same map, with the exact same civilizations on them, just shuffled around a bit so that it looks neater. What does everyone think?
ok, seems that I need to redraw a new map of expansion
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by CatDoom »

The new map looks good! And as for my expansion map, I figure I'll eventually detail the history of the Taic-speaking peoples in more detail; I figure the map will just be sort of an outline of things to come. I figure the precise border between the Taic and Umbric language areas will be a matter of some contention, but as it stands I'm imagining the Taic peoples as lagging behind some of the other cultures in terms of technology and social cohesion, so it's likely that the Umbric peoples will take what they want and my guys will stick to the mountains where they belong. :P
Iyionaku wrote:And another one: Is it ok if I invent a writing system too? Maybe a few hundred years after the Ydtobogȧn system?
It could be perfectly realistic. Even by the most conservative estimates, fully functional writing systems were probably invented from scratch three or four times in human history. You've got cuneiform and Egyptian hieroglyphs (though the former may have inspired the latter), Linear A (possibly inspired by Egyptian or Mesopotamian writing),the Indus script (assuming it was an actual writing system), Chinese characters, and Mesoamerican hieroglyphs. Granted, nowadays only descendants of Egyptian (via the ancient Semitic scripts) and Chinese really remain in use, but the fact remains that writing was invented in more than one time and place.


Felbah wrote:And with the not [j] conundrum, the same is true of Amutetikam. I would say it is fine.


Coincidentally, Proto-Taic also has /j/ but no phonemic /i/. Of course, Proto-Taic is reconstructed with no phonemic high vowels at all, but the same is true of the RL language Yanesha', and seems to be posited in most reconstructions of Proto-Indo-European as well (though /j/ could be pronounced as depending on the adjacent consonants). In any event, this seems to be a good planet for weird small vowel systems; now let's mix it up and have all their daughters wind up with /a e i o u/ :P
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Man in Space »

Is the division between Amutet and Amelan at that little narrow bit of land at the top-center of the picture?
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Felbah »

Linguifex wrote:Is the division between Amutet and Amelan at that little narrow bit of land at the top-center of the picture?
According to how I imagined the continents, there were actually three:
You were right in saying that Amelan's border was the thin bit, but that then goes onto another unnamed continent, which in turn goes over the mountains to Amutet. Where the river is, running nearly parallel with the Western coast of Amutet, that is where the divide is.
Last edited by Felbah on 27 May 2014 11:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Egerius »

CatDoom wrote: so it's likely that the Umbric peoples will take what they want and my guys will stick to the mountains where they belong. :P
So your Taic people will be like the Basque people of Earth?
Guess which role the Umbric people will take. [xD]
The adjusted map is great.
Felbah wrote:Also, Egerius, can I suggest moving your timeline back perhaps 1000 years? Your Urheimat looks too large to be a recent language like it is.
Well, is 12,000 BK okay (subtracting the eastern part with the reverse arc and the tiny islands in the south-east)?
I took so much land to be sure that no one is my immediate neighbour.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Felbah »

Egerius wrote:
CatDoom wrote: so it's likely that the Umbric peoples will take what they want and my guys will stick to the mountains where they belong. :P
So your Taic people will be like the Basque people of Earth?
Guess which role the Umbric people will take. [xD]
The adjusted map is great.
Felbah wrote:Also, Egerius, can I suggest moving your timeline back perhaps 1000 years? Your Urheimat looks too large to be a recent language like it is.
Well, is 12,000 BK okay (subtracting the eastern part with the reverse arc and the tiny islands in the south-east)?
I took so much land to be sure that no one is my immediate neighbour.
That could probably work.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by zee »

Okey, I've got this now
Image

I'm not absolutely sure whether or not it's plausible but hopefully it's fine.
Also, I've tried to minimise the risk of colliding with other cultures.
(The exception being the planned overlap between Latian and Ular in around 3000 BK)
Edit: Updated map so that it fits in with Iyionaku's
Last edited by zee on 27 May 2014 16:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Iyionaku »

But, there must live other cultures anywhere, isn't it? So the language would nevertheless make a big change, huh?
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by k1234567890y »

Image

New version of the expansion of the Ulitan peoples, other ethnic groups are not shown here.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

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i'll do the thousand by thousand map later. I want to work on proto-gigxkpoy verb system
Edit: By the way, how do you do those pretty charts at the wiki?
Last edited by loglorn on 27 May 2014 15:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Egerius »

I've altered the Urheimat in both time and geographic expansion of Proto-Umbric. I hope you like it.
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by Iyionaku »

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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by k1234567890y »

loglorn wrote:i'll do the thousand by thousand map later. I want to work on proto-gigxkpoy verb system
Edit: By the way, how do you do those pretty charts at the wiki?
I just look at the help page of wikipedia...
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by loglorn »

By 10000BK my language family will be already divided, and i am start to name such divisions and posting it in the wiki. I'll develop each one some time soon (but probably not today nor tomorrow)
I named an island and i guess you'll have a hard time Amuteticizing it.
This island is called tʰixq'nys
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Re: Diachronic Conlanging open world

Post by zee »

Latian languages

Image
Light purple/violet = Proto-Latian
Dark blue = Peram languages
Other colours = As-of-yet unnamed-and-undocumented-subgroups
reírítí lixa kisti o lixati reí kisti · the river god controls the fish and the fish control the river – otísil (pdf)
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