με λόγια ελληνικά

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Lambuzhao
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Sat 01 Aug 2015, 21:07

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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Sat 01 Aug 2015, 21:27

δοκεῖ μοι «ϖῶς» μὲν ταρφύστερόν τε ϗ ϖυκνότερον,
It seems to me that, on the one hand, «ϖῶς» is more frequent and common,


«ϖῇ» δὲ δήπȣ σπανιώτερον ἰδεῖν.
while to me perhaps «ϖῇ» is a rarer thing to behold.

ϖῶς δοκεῖς ;
How þinkest ðou?

:wat:
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Znex » Sun 02 Aug 2015, 03:56

οὔ δ' ἐστι διαφορά ἐν ἐννοίᾳ;
Spoiler:
There's no difference in meaning though?
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 02 Aug 2015, 14:20

« ϖῶς» μὲν βȣ́λεται λέγειν «ἐν ϖοίῳ τρόπῳ;» oἶμαι, «ϖῇ» δὲ « ἐν ϖοίῃ ὁδῷ;» .
Spoiler:
Viz. Smyth's handy CORRELATIVES chart @ §346

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... apter%3D16



Two main differences:
1) Original case: ϖῇ is a fossilized DAT, while ϖῶς is a fossilized old ABL. I don’t know if there’s a shade of meaning we (as non-native anachromnistic speakers) miss, but, well, there it is: one difference.

2) In Smyth’s chart, he refers to ϖῇ as “Way”, as in “which way?” or “which direction?” Additionally, not in Smyth’s chart but in the Middle Liddell, it is also used like “To what end?” in Herodotus, and even rarely as “Where?” in Sophocles.



Smyth refers to ϖῶς with the word “Manner”, as in “what manner?” or “in what guise?”

It’s pretty much the go-to word for “How?”

Another Litmus test would be to access the texts themselves, and see what kinds of answers « ϖῇ» and « ϖῶς» generated. Sounds like a reasonable Classics/Tech research thesis.

:wat:
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Thu 06 Aug 2015, 16:16

So that we may have some clearer idea

At least some of the crazy Greek alternate miniscule letter-forms have some more or less definite placements.

Initial Forms :

ϐ
ϑ
ϖ
ρ

Medio-Final Forms
β
θ
π
ϱ

So, for example, /'bar.ba.ros/ would be written


ϐάϱβαϱος


/θe.'o.θen/

ϑεόθεν


/'pi.pto:/

ϖίπτω


/re:.to:.ri.ke:/

ῥητωϱική


Gamma and Tau have alternate tall forms which seem to get used almost indiscriminately- anybody with a resource that nails the distinction in usage would be most appreciated [:D]

Jury's out on Kappa & Phi - Again, anybody have a reliable source to quote?
ϰκ / φϕ
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Znex » Mon 10 Aug 2015, 23:32

χαίρετε, τοῦ "μέλλειν" ἐνθυμοῦμαι καὶ πῶς ἐργάζεται.
Hey again, I've been thinking about "μέλλειν" and how it works. (In Koine Greek and/or Attic Greek)

δοκεῖ σοι; εἶδον ταῦτα μεθερμηνευόμενα ὡς "going to" καὶ "about to"· πῶς δὲ ρελάτουσι μετὰ τοῦ μέλλοντος;
What do you think? I've seen it translated as "going to" and "about to". How does it relate (I dunno the Greek) to the future tense?
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Tue 11 Aug 2015, 02:57

Tȣ̃το αὔϱιον μέλλω ἑϱμηνεύειν. [B)]
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Znex » Tue 11 Aug 2015, 04:29

ὄ, καλῶς. [:(]
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Tue 11 Aug 2015, 22:01

πρòς τί ἤμελλες ἀνοίσειν;
To what were you intending to refer?

:wat:
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Tue 11 Aug 2015, 22:48

τò μέλλον ῎ȣ μὲν ἐθέλει λέγειν τò ἐσόμενον, ἐθέλει δὲ τò πϱαχθησόμενον εἴτε τῇ ἀποκαϱαδοκίᾳ εἴτε τῇ πληϱοϕοϱίᾳ.

The "μέλλον " doesn't mean what will be {simple futurity}, but rather what will be done with intense expectation or certainty.
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Znex » Wed 12 Aug 2015, 01:34

Lambuzhao wrote:πρòς τί ἤμελλες ἀνοίσειν;
To what were you intending to refer?

:wat:
οὐκ ἤθελον οὔδεν ἀνοίσειν, περὶ τὴν κοινωνίαν θέλω αἰτῆσαι τοῦ μέλλειν καὶ τοῦ ἐσόμενου.
I wasn't wanting to refer to anything, I wanted to ask about the relationship between μέλλειν and the simple future.
Lambuzhao wrote:τò μέλλον ῎ȣ μὲν ἐθέλει λέγειν τò ἐσόμενον, ἐθέλει δὲ τò πϱαχθησόμενον εἴτε τῇ ἀποκαϱαδοκίᾳ εἴτε τῇ πληϱοϕοϱίᾳ.

The "μέλλον " doesn't mean what will be {simple futurity}, but rather what will be done with intense expectation or certainty.
ἇρα διεπιβαίνουσι; τὸ προκαταλαμβανόμενον ἐνδειχθέν δ' ἐστι μέλλειν;
Do they overlap? Is μέλλειν then a prospective marker?
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 12 Aug 2015, 11:51

ἄτοπον ὀλιγῶς εἰπεῖν, ὁ μέλλων (᾽ȣχ ὁ ἐσόμενος) ἀναϕέϱει τῷ ὑστέϱῳ χϱόνῳ κατὰ τὴν ἑλληνικὴν γϱαμματικὴν . ἡ μετοχὴ « μέλλων » ἔοικε πϱαγματικῶς ἴση τῷ ἐσoμέvῳ (؛ ;).

A little strange to say, in greek grammar, « μέλλων » refers to the future (not ἐσόμενος ). The participle «μέλλων» seems to be functionally equivalent to ἐσόμενος (‽؟).
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 12 Aug 2015, 12:29

Znex wrote:
Lambuzhao wrote:πρòς τί ἤμελλες ἀνοίσειν;
To what were you intending to refer?

:wat:
οὐκ ἤθελον οὔδεν ἀνοίσειν, περὶ τὴν κοινωνίαν θέλω αἰτῆσαι τοῦ μέλλειν καὶ τοῦ ἐσόμενου.
I wasn't wanting to refer to anything, I wanted to ask about the relationship between μέλλειν and the simple future.
Lambuzhao wrote:τò μέλλον ῎ȣ μὲν ἐθέλει λέγειν τò ἐσόμενον, ἐθέλει δὲ τò πϱαχθησόμενον εἴτε τῇ ἀποκαϱαδοκίᾳ εἴτε τῇ πληϱοϕοϱίᾳ.

The "μέλλον " doesn't mean what will be {simple futurity}, but rather what will be done with intense expectation or certainty.
ἇρα διεπιβαίνουσι; τὸ προκαταλαμβανόμενον ἐνδειχθέν δ' ἐστι μέλλειν;
Do they overlap? Is μέλλειν then a prospective marker?


μέλλειν ἐστὶν τὸ πϱοκαταλαμβανόμενον ἐνδειχθέν ἡ κτίσις Ζήνωνος τȣ̃ Ἐλεάτȣ.

Mellein is the prospective marker invented by Zeno of Elea.

[xP]
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Sat 10 Oct 2015, 20:22

Image

Μολυβδοπίθηκος
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 22 Jun 2016, 17:09

Ancient (Koine?ish) :grc: Classroom vocabulary (and links to other goodies:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... Ki3mEttLcA
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Mon 18 Jul 2016, 17:05

Spoiler:
Image
:grc: Doric Greek

δῶς μοι πᾷ στῶ ϗ̀ τὰν γᾶν ϰινάσω [πᾶσαν]

give<PRS.ACT.IMPTV>2SG 1SG.DAT INDEF.ADV stand<AOR.ACT.SBJV>1SG CNJ DEF.F.ACC.SG earth-ACC.SG move<FUT.ACT.INDIC>1SG all-F.ACC.SG


ϰάλλιϛον! :mrgreen:
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Mon 18 Jul 2016, 18:08

συν τοῖς τε ἀλεσθεῖσι σπέρμασι τοῖς ἡλιάνθȣ τῷ τε μοσχοκαρύῳ ἔσθιω τὰ βρώμης ἄλφιτα.
PRP DEF.N.DAT.PL CNJ grind<PASS.AOR.PTCP>N.DAT.PL seed-DAT.PL DEF.N.DAT.PL sunflower-GEN.SG DEF.N.DAT.SG CNJ nutmeg-DAT.SG eat<ACT.PRS.INDIC>1SG DEF.N.ACC.PL oat-GEN.G groat-ACC.PL

I eat my oatmeal with milled sunflower seeds and nutmeg.
[:P] [;)]
Spoiler:
NB: *ἡλιάνθȣ and *βρώμης are :ell: , not :grc:
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 16 Jul 2017, 16:07

Koine :ell:

Ways to say I liked {it} / {it} pleased me (all NT except were bracketed) *NB: Not in any order of frequency.

ἤρεσεν ἐναντίον μου [LXX]
ἐν ᾧ ηὑδόκησα
ἤρεσέν μοι
ἔστιν ἀρεστόν μοι
[Epicteti Dissertationes Lib I, Cap 13]
ἀρεστόν ἐστί μοι
ἀρεστόν ἐστιν ἐνώπιον μοῦ.

Quite possibly other ways, since :ell: has a mutable/legoable syntax.

ΩΠΑ! σχεδόν ἐνιαυτόν ὅλον μέχρι δεῦρ' οὐκ ἔγραφον...!
Ha! Almost a year to the day since last I posted herein.
[O.O]
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 26 Jul 2017, 15:40

Image

Δις παίδες οἱ γερόντες.
NUM<ADVZ> child<NOM.PL> DEF.M.NOM.PL old.man.NOM.PL
Spoiler:
A personal credo: never truer words to live by.
[xP] [<3]
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Re: με λόγια ελληνικά

Post by Lambuzhao » Sat 12 Aug 2017, 21:07

All joking aside, this prolly how Ἰωδὰ Himself would have said it in (mostly) Koine :ell:


ἢ ποίησον ἢ μὴ ποιήσῃς · οὐκ ἔνι πειράζειν.
CNJ do<AOR.ACT.IMPTV>2SG CNJ PROHIB do<AOR.ACT.SBJV>2SG | NEG exist.in.a.place<PRS>3SG attempt<PRS.ACT.INF>

Image
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