Biblical Hebrew

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Davush
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Re: Biblical Hebrew

Post by Davush » Sat 19 Nov 2016, 21:14

Shemtov wrote: Example:
Absolute state dob̠or "word; "thing"
Construct state: dəb̠ar

The Contruct state of masculine plural Nouns:
This also applies to feminine nouns that form the plural in iym
The iym ending is switched to ēy, and then the same rules as the singular noun are apllied.
thus the plural dəb̠oriym "words; things" is dəb̠ə̥rēy.
Isn't the construct of dvarim divrey? Sorry I don't know your transliteration system. Is there a reason why it might be dəb̠ə̥rēy?
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Isfendil
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Re: Biblical Hebrew

Post by Isfendil » Wed 23 Nov 2016, 21:01

Davush wrote:
Shemtov wrote: Example:
Absolute state dob̠or "word; "thing"
Construct state: dəb̠ar

The Contruct state of masculine plural Nouns:
This also applies to feminine nouns that form the plural in iym
The iym ending is switched to ēy, and then the same rules as the singular noun are apllied.
thus the plural dəb̠oriym "words; things" is dəb̠ə̥rēy.
Isn't the construct of dvarim divrey? Sorry I don't know your transliteration system. Is there a reason why it might be dəb̠ə̥rēy?
It's diβrēy in the course I'm taking as well.
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Shemtov
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Re: Biblical Hebrew

Post by Shemtov » Wed 23 Nov 2016, 23:40

You're right, I should have transcribed it dib̠ə̥rēy; in my reading pronunciation Shva Na approaches /ɪ/, and unstressed /i/ also approaches /ɪ/ (we often default to Milra), so doing it from memory, I got confused. The Schwa is after the b̠ to signal the Shva Nach, which I note as, a. My transcription system is a fusion between a pure transcription and a transliteration (as I feel a lot of the phonological processes are easier to show with a representation of the Hebrew Alphabet) and b. Shva Nach can become vocalized in some cases. <b̠> ius my way of representing β.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
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Shemtov
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Re: Biblical Hebrew

Post by Shemtov » Sun 12 Aug 2018, 06:07

Shemtov wrote:
Tue 20 Sep 2016, 15:39
Davush wrote:
Shemtov wrote:
Askenazic Pronunciation:
<g d > do not have their fricative pronunciations.
The fricative pronunciation of <t> is /s/.
Emphatic consonants are depharyngialized.
<h̟> is pronounced /x/.
<ʕ>is pronounced as /ʔ/ syllable initially; and ∅ syllable finally.
<w> is pronounced /v/.
What about the weird things with vowels that Ashkenazi pronunciation does? I usually hear in this very orthodox shuls with /o/ -> /oj/ or /əj/ being the most notable, as well as general vowel reduction.

shalom aleichem -> /ʃəlojm əlejχəm/ etc.
There are two Ashkenazi pronunciations: The one I described, which is generally called "Ashkenazis" and the one you described, which is called "Ungris" ie. "Hungarian" as it is mostly used by Hngarian and Romanian Jews, though there are some from other areas of Europe who use it. There's also the fact that such phrases as "Shalom Aleichem" are "Yiddishized"; they are pronounced more like Yiddish words then Hebrew words, despite their origin.
Actually, Correction: There were three Ashkenazi pronunciations: Two of which are called "Ashekenazis", plus "Ungris", which was also spoken in Galicia, however, since most Modern Jews using it are Hungarian or Romanian, the Galicianeers having mostly switched to one of the Ashkenazis dialects, we call it after Hungary these days. The Ashkenazis I described is that of Lithuania, Northeast Poland, and Northern Belarus- note that Yiddish does not have a name for Belarussian Jews, Calling them either "Litvaks", if they spoke this one or "Yukraineers" if they spoke what Davush described. What Davush Described was spoken in Southern Belarus, North and Southeast Ukraine, and the rest of Poland. Thus we can differentiate between "Litvak" and "Polisher-Yukraineer" Sub-pronunciations of "Ashkenazis", though as "Polisher-Yukrainer" Pronunciation has some commonalities with "Ungris", we might describe them as equal sub-pronounciations, though "Ungris" is hard to understand for the unexposed. The American Orthodox Community, was founded by Litvak and Ungris speakers, so most Polishers and Yukraineers have, over the years, lost their pronunciation (I am a Yukraineer, with some Yukarain-Galicianeer blood, and I use the Litvak pronunciation) The British Orthodox community was Founded by mostly Polishers and Yukraineers, so their dialect dominates there, most Litvaks doing the opposite of American Polishers and Yukraineers.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
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