Caddo sketch and Q/A

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ZedSed
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Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Fri 16 May 2014, 17:28

Ok, the thread is now open.... (can you hear the intro theme music? Tah-daaaaah!)

Please feel free to post questions and I'll get right on 'em, but for now I'm gonna begin with the phonology.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by eldin raigmore » Fri 16 May 2014, 18:09

Do they have subordinate clause?

Do they distinguish adjectives from verbs?
Do they distinguish adjectives from nouns?
Do they distinguish adjectives from adverbs?

What kinds of adpositions to they have?
What kinds of pronouns do they have?

What about conjunctions?
What about any other particles?
What about auxiliaries?
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ZedSed
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Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sat 17 May 2014, 08:33

Hi guys. Sorry for the delay.

This is a thread about the language Caddo. My resource for this topic is "Caddo Verb Morphology" by Lynette R. Melnar

Caddo has very scanty resources, so I won't be able to answer all questions unfortunately, but if you are interested in the way Caddo puts its verbs together, please feel free to ask questions.

Infact, ask any questions you want, verb-related or not. You might get lucky, and I might find something on it somewhere.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sat 17 May 2014, 09:01

Caddo Phonology

Caddo has a fairly standard set of 19 consonants all pronounced as in the IPA, with the following exceptions made to simplify the orthography.

< c, č, š, y > = /ʦ, ʧ, ʃ, j/

Nothing too controversial. The full consonant inventory is as follows:

< b, c, cʼ, č, čʼ, d, h, k, kʼ, m, n, p, s, š, t, tʼ, w, y, ʔ >

There are four ejective consonants. < cʼ, č', k' and tʼ > /ʦʼ, ʧʼ, kʼ, tʼ/

There are three phonemic vowels in Caddo, < a, i, u >

< i > and < u > are consistently pronounced as /ɪ/ and /ʊ/.

< a > has three allophones depending on the context it is found in.
In open syllables, or followed by the glottal consonants < h > and < ʔ >, it is realized as /ɐ/.
When followed by the semi-vowels < w > and < y >, it is the mid central vowel /ə/.
When followed by any other consonant, it becomes /ʌ/.

Vowel and consonant length in Caddo is phonemic. Long vowels are followed by a triangular colon ( ː ) symbol in my posts, but in the original book the author used a middle dot ( • ) to mark long vowels.

There are also three tones in Caddo, which are the low tone (unmarked), high tone (acute accent á) and falling tone (grave accent àː). Falling tone only occurs on long vowels.

Caddo also has many phonological processes whereby phonemes change form in certain contexts. I will write more about this later.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sat 17 May 2014, 10:36

Phonological Processes

There are 8 basic kinds of phonological processes in Caddo. (Actually, there are many more but the author hasn't elaborated on what the more complex rules are. Nonetheless....)
...I will try to explain these rules and give examples of each.

(Note: Some of these rules have exceptions when dealing with certain morphemes. These morphemes are special in the way they are handled. If you want to know more, I will fill you in on the details.)

1. Word and Clitic boundary processes

n ----> t / #_
w ----> p / #_
y ----> d / #_

(i) /ni-huhn-id-ah/
(ii) nihúndah
(iii) tihúndah
"she returned it."

(i) /wiht-ni-huhn-id-ah/
(ii) pínːhúndah
(iii) pínːhúndah
"they two returned it."

(i) /ya-watak-ah/
(ii) yáwtakah
(iii) dáwtakah
"he's coming out [of the timber], visiting."

2. Glottalization processes

tʔ ----> tʼ
kʔ ----> kʼ
cʔ ----> cʼ
čʔ ----> čʼ

'Nuff said. [;)]

3. Syncope processes

Syncope is the loss of a vowel word internally.

VRVLC ----> VHRC
VCVLCV ----> VCCV

V stands for "vowel", C for "consonant", R for "resonant consonant" < m, n, w, y >
L and H stand for "low-" and "high-tone".

(i) /ʔawi-yah-tčahk-id-ah/
(ii) ʔawiyatčahdah
(iii) ʔáwyatčahdah
"he stood by."

(i) /kak#(ʔi)tʼus-yaʔah/
(ii) kahʔitʼušaʔah
(iii) kahʔitʼušʔah
"foam, suds."

4. Palatalization processes

ty ----> c
ky ----> č
sy ----> š

(i) /hák#ku-t-yaʔk-da-ʔaʔ/
(ii) hákkutyadaʔaʔ
(iii) hákkucaːdaʔaʔ
"my wooden box is hanging."

(i) /káwʔk-yúk-čah/
(ii) káwːkyúhčah
(iii) káwːčúhčah
"he's going across."

(i) /kak#ʔa-kʼas-yaʔah/
(ii) kahʔakʼasyʔah
(iii) kahʔakʼašʔah
"ones' leg."

5. Consonant-cluster simplification processes

nw ----> mm
tw ----> pp
tk ----> kk
n ----> m / _(any labial consonant).
ʔʔ ----> ʔ
hh ----> h
ʔR ----> Rʔ / when syllable final. (R = "resonant", see above.)

(i) /náw-yán-wa-hiʔ-nah/
(ii) táwyánwáhʔnah
(iii) táwyámmáhʔnah
"they fell."

(i) /hít#wa-k-ʔu-nah/
(ii) hítwakʼunah
(iii) híppakʼunah
"it barked."

(i) /kúk#niyat-kačʼuh-saʔ/
(ii) húhniyatkač'uhsaʔ
(iii) kúhniyakkačʼuhsaʔ
"at the fork of the road."

(i) /kík#kan-bašúk/
(ii) kíkkanbašuh
(iii) kíkkambašuh
"the water is dried up."

(i) /hús#sa-yakʔ-ʔini-ʔaʔ/
(ii) hússayahʔʔniʔaʔ
(iii) hússayahʔniʔaʔ
"there was a log lying."

(i) /nisah-háy-ʔáhy-ʔ-ah/
(ii) tisahháyʔáhʔyah
(iii) tisaháyʔáhʔyah
"he demolished the house."

(i) /yahʔ-ni-wáhd/
(ii) dáʔmmah
(iii) dámʔmah
"bring it!"

6. Syllable-coda simplification processes

b ----> w / when syllable final.
č ----> š / when syllable final.
d ----> t / when syllable final
k ----> h / when syllable final, but not before another < k >.

(i) /ci-ba=sisih-iʔn(i)-čah/
(ii) cibsisihʔničah
(iii) ciwsisihʔničah
"I'm going to boil it."

(i) /nat#bak-yi-bahw-nah/
(ii) napbačbáwːnah
(iii) napbašbáwːnah
"after he heard it."

(i) /hít#ci-háy-ni-ʔa=d/
(ii) hítciháyniʔad
(iii) hítciháyniʔat
"I followed."

(i) /kak#háy-waʔud/
(ii) kakháywaʔut
(iii) kaháywaʔut
"to hunt."

7. Lengthening processes

VH(R)CVC# ----> VH(R)ːCVC#
V(R)ʔ ----> V(R)ː / in any prepenultimate syllable
iy ----> iː
uw ----> uː

(i) /bak-´ʔawáwaʔ/
(ii) bahʔwáwaʔ
(iii) bahʔwáːwaʔ
"they said."

(i) /hák#ci-(ʔi)bíhn-saʔ/
(ii) háhciʔbísaʔ
(iii) háhciːbíːsaʔ
"I have it on my back"

(i) /hák#ku-bak-yi=bahw-saʔ/
(ii) hákkuwčibáwsaʔ
(iii) hákkuːčibáwːsaʔ
"he's hearing me."

(i) /hít#ci-ʔawi-dana-wani-´y/
(ii) hítcíːwittáwníy
(iii) hítcíːwittáwːniː
"I came around the bend."

8. Tonal processes

VhCC ----> VHCC
VRVLC ----> VHRC
VRVH ----> VHRVH

(i) /kišwahn-t-ʔuh/
(ii) kišwahntʼuh
(iii) kišwánːtʼuh
"parched corn"

(i) /sa-baka-na-hah/
(ii) sawkanahah
(iii) sawkánːhah
"does he mean it?"

(i) /naná/
(ii) naná
(iii) nánáː
"that, that one."
Last edited by ZedSed on Sun 18 May 2014, 06:37, edited 1 time in total.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by gach » Sat 17 May 2014, 11:36

Caddo has a complex person agreement system with three distinct sets of pronominal affixes, right? And like the Muskogian languages it should have multiple splits between its verbs on what sets of affixes to use for their arguments, so that intransitive verbs might have agentive, patientive or dative subjects or transitive verbs patientive or dative patients. Can you find any patterns between the marking strategies and the semantics of the verbs?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sat 17 May 2014, 11:56

gach wrote:Caddo has a complex person agreement system with three distinct sets of pronominal affixes, right? And like the Muskogian languages it should have multiple splits between its verbs on what sets of affixes to use for their arguments, so that intransitive verbs might have agentive, patientive or dative subjects or transitive verbs patientive or dative patients. Can you find any patterns between the marking strategies and the semantics of the verbs?
Actually from what I can see, Caddo has two sets of pronominal prefixes. A Realis set and an Irrealis set. The way Caddo treats the distinction between Realis and Irrealis is actually quite interesting. I will get into it next.

The pronominal system itself isn't too complex, however. Just a First, Second, Third and Defocusing person.
Edit: Oops, I must correct myself. You are right! I thought you were talking about extensive Animacy classes when you were referring to a "complex person agreement system". It does mark the pronouns for Agent, Patient and Dative case. There are 32 combinations of Person, Case and Reality which are marked with 24 morphemes (seven of which are homophones.)
eldin raigmore wrote:Do they have subordinate clause?

Do they distinguish adjectives from verbs?
Do they distinguish adjectives from nouns?
Do they distinguish adjectives from adverbs?

What kinds of adpositions to they have?
What kinds of pronouns do they have?

What about conjunctions?
What about any other particles?
What about auxiliaries?
Some of your questions I can answer (especially the questions about subordination), but I'm afraid I can't answer all of your questions. As I said earlier, the book I'm drawing from mostly focuses on the verb morphology in Caddo. Some other things are just not in here. Sorry.
Last edited by ZedSed on Sat 17 May 2014, 21:09, edited 1 time in total.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sat 17 May 2014, 12:34

Subordination

There are 32 morphemes contained within the TAM system of Caddo that perform a subordinating function.

This excerpt comes from a text called "The transformed husband and the elf":

(i) nappáwdihšiyah
nat#wa-wid(i)-ih-šiyah
TEMP.SUB#PL-arrive-AND-TRANSLOC.PERF

(ii) kúyhándáwːʔah
kúyk#ha-nida=wa=ʔak(i)
PAST.LOC#space-find.PL

(iii) kúhʔáwʔihʔáʔ
kúk#´ʔawáwaʔ(ih)-ʔaʔ
LOC.SUB#be.PL-FUT

(iv) kahnahʔwaʔnihʔáʔ nukaʔ
kak#nak-ʔa=wa=ʔn(ih)-ʔaʔ nukaʔ
SUB#fire-make.PL-FUT perhaps

(v) nahašʔnáwwáːyáh dikaʔháy
nak#hašnáw-wa-yáh dikaʔháy
TRANSLOC.IND#meal-PL-eat something

(i) "When they arrived there, (ii) where they located a camp site, (iii) where they would stay
(iv) to make a fire perhaps, (v) they would eat something there"

(I will write more here soon on what all this means, and the other subordinator morphemes)
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by roninbodhisattva » Sat 17 May 2014, 16:27

ZedSed wrote:Subordination

There are 32 morphemes contained within the TAM system of Caddo that perform a subordinating function.
Wait, there are 32 dedicated subordinating morphemes?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sat 17 May 2014, 16:53

I should add some details before I go on, especially about the conventions used in the book which I will also be using in this thread. Otherwise my glosses won't make much sense to anyone.

Symbols used in the glosses

# : The hash separates the compulsory TAM proclitic at the left edge of the verb. (Position 15)
- : Separates morphemes.
= : In complex stems, the equal sign marks the position where the Animate Plural infix should go. ( =wa= )

Abbreviations used

A adjective/adverb
ABS absolutive
AGT grammatical agent
AND andative
ANIM animate
APP dative applicative
CAUS causative
CIS cislocative
COND conditional
CONT continuative
CONTR contrastive
COOR coordinator
DAT grammatical dative
DEFOC defocusing
DESID desiderative
DIM diminutive
DIR directional
DIST distributive
DU dual
DUR durative
FUT future
GEN general, generic
HAB habitual
HORT hortative
IMP imperative
IMPFV imperfective
INCH inchoative
IND indicative
INDISCR indiscriminative
INDV individuative
INFREQ infrequentive
INST instrumental
INTENT intentive
INTER interrogative
IRR irrealis
ITER iterative
LOC locative
MAN manner
MID middle
MIR mirative
N nominal
NEG negative
NOM nominalizer
NUM number
OBL oblique
OBLIG obligative
PART participle
PARTIC particular
PAT grammatical patient
PER person
PERF perfect
PL plural, animate plural
PORT portative
POS positional
POSS possibility
POST postural
POTENT potential
PROHIB prohibitive
PRIOR prioritive
QUOT quotative
REL relativizer
RESULT resultative
SG singular
SIM simulative
SUB subordinator
T/A tense/aspect
TAM tense/aspect/mood
TEMP temporal
TRAN transitivizer
TRANS translocative
VAR varietive
VER veritive
WH general WH- interrogative

Some more General Info

The Caddo verb is templatic in nature, with 15 prefix positions (plus one "spanned" position) followed by the stem (which may take the Animate Plural infix), and another seven suffix positions (plus another two "spanned" positions).
The spanned positions are as follows:

The Manner position, which can not co-occur with any prefix between Position 5 and Position 1 inclusive.
The Inchoative position, which can not co-occur with any suffix in Positions -1 and -2.
The Diminutive position, which can not co-occur with any suffix in Positions -5 and -6.

The Caddo Verb Template (ignoring spanned positions)

15 TAM
14 PER
13 INTER
12 DU
11 DUR
10 DIST
9 APP
8b PAT
8a PAT/INST/LOC
7 MAN
6 ABS NUM
• 5 DIST
• 4b LOC/POS/DIR
• 4a POS/DIR
• 3 POST
• 2 CONT
• 1 TRAN
0 STEM (ROOT ± ANIM PL infix)
• -1 CAUS
• -2 AND
-3 MID
-4 CIS
• -5 ITER
• -6 INTENT
-7 T/A
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by Micamo » Sat 17 May 2014, 16:54

roninbodhisattva wrote:
ZedSed wrote:Subordination

There are 32 morphemes contained within the TAM system of Caddo that perform a subordinating function.
Wait, there are 32 dedicated subordinating morphemes?
The OP is probably counting things like the locative morphemes and the (several) conditional moods. The conditionals probably count as subordinators; I'm not sure if the locatives do.
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sat 17 May 2014, 17:41

roninbodhisattva wrote:
ZedSed wrote:Subordination

There are 32 morphemes contained within the TAM system of Caddo that perform a subordinating function.
Wait, there are 32 dedicated subordinating morphemes?
Yeah!

I'll list them here now:

dákak# locative indicative subordinator
dikay#/dikáy# indiscriminative subordinator
* dús# negative conditional
hákak# indicative subordinator
* hí# particular conditional
húk# durative subordinator
kak# subordinator (one of the most commonly used TAM morphemes of all)
kakúcʼit#/kacʼik# prioritive subordinator
kakút# negative subordinator
kaʔukík#/kahʔuk# continuative subordinator
kík# past subordinator
kúk#/kú# locative subordinator
kúsíkak# simulative subordinator
kúyk# past locative subordinator
kúykáy# indiscriminative locative subordinator
* nacʼit# prioritive temporal subordinator
* nadús# negative generic conditional
* nadúʔus# negative continuative general conditional
nak# instrumental subordinator
nakúk#/nakút# negative instrumental subordinator
* nas# generic conditional
nat# temporal subordinator
* nawi# indiscriminative conditional
nayt# general participle
niʔikáy# indiscriminative subordinator
ník# past temporal subordinator
níkáy#/nikáy# indiscriminative subordinator
níkík# past subordinator
nít# past general participle
níʔí# indiscriminative subordinator
sikak# simulative subordinator
wíkáy# indiscriminative relativizer

(Note: All morphemes with a star * are only found in IRREALIS verbs, marked with the irrealis pronouns.)
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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ZedSed
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sat 17 May 2014, 17:47

Micamo wrote:
roninbodhisattva wrote:
ZedSed wrote:Subordination

There are 32 morphemes contained within the TAM system of Caddo that perform a subordinating function.
Wait, there are 32 dedicated subordinating morphemes?
The OP is probably counting things like the locative morphemes and the (several) conditional moods. The conditionals probably count as subordinators; I'm not sure if the locatives do.
You got it exactly.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
roninbodhisattva
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by roninbodhisattva » Sat 17 May 2014, 18:51

ZedSed wrote:
Micamo wrote: The OP is probably counting things like the locative morphemes and the (several) conditional moods. The conditionals probably count as subordinators; I'm not sure if the locatives do.
You got it exactly.
*shrugs* alright.
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Xing
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by Xing » Sat 17 May 2014, 19:36

How do I order a cup of coffee in Caddo?
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sangi39
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by sangi39 » Sat 17 May 2014, 19:42

roninbodhisattva wrote:
ZedSed wrote:
Micamo wrote: The OP is probably counting things like the locative morphemes and the (several) conditional moods. The conditionals probably count as subordinators; I'm not sure if the locatives do.
You got it exactly.
*shrugs* alright.
Looking at the list, it looks like a lot of them can be broken down into other, more basic morphemes. The "indiscriminative" ones often end in -kay while negative ones end in either -dús or -(k)út.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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ZedSed
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sat 17 May 2014, 20:24

sangi39 wrote:
roninbodhisattva wrote:
ZedSed wrote:
Micamo wrote: The OP is probably counting things like the locative morphemes and the (several) conditional moods. The conditionals probably count as subordinators; I'm not sure if the locatives do.
You got it exactly.
*shrugs* alright.
Looking at the list, it looks like a lot of them can be broken down into other, more basic morphemes. The "indiscriminative" ones often end in -kay while negative ones end in either -dús or -(k)út.
The Phonological Processes section above only reveals the most regular of the actual rules. I think it's highly likely that you are right about this. And there may be even deeper levels of fusion in the morphemes which have become difficult to recognize, using rules no-one (or atleast no linguist) has yet discovered. Who knows? But I noticed the same thing as you, and the sheer number of TAM morphemes in Position 15 (≈100 or more), would make it highly likely that this Position in the template may actually be a number of Positions, with high degrees of fusion blurring their distinction.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sun 18 May 2014, 05:50

Caddo Pronominal Prefixes

Single Person Prefixes

Realis

1st person AGT ci- PAT ku- DAT ku-
2nd person AGT yahʔ- PAT si- DAT si-
3rd person AGT Ø PAT Ø DAT nu-/u-
DEFOC person AGT yi-/ʔi PAT ya- DAT yu-

Irrealis

1st person AGT tʼa-/tʼi- PAT ba- DAT ba-
2nd person AGT sahʔ- PAT saʔa- DAT saʔu-
3rd person AGT (sa-/ya-/a-) PAT (sa-/ya-/a-) DAT ʔu-
DEFOC person AGT ʔa- PAT ʔaʔa- DAT ʔaʔu-

Combining Person Prefixes

Realis

1st AGT : 2nd PAT tʼa-
1st AGT : 2nd DAT t'u-
2nd AGT : 1st PAT yahku-
2nd AGT : 1st DAT yahku-

Irrealis

1st AGT : 2nd PAT tʼaʔa-
1st AGT : 2nd DAT tʼaʔu-
2nd AGT : 1st PAT sahku-
2nd AGT : 1st DAT sahku-

Image
Last edited by ZedSed on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 02:45, edited 1 time in total.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by ZedSed » Sun 18 May 2014, 06:41

Updated the Phonological Processes section above. Length and Tone rules now added.
bp dt ʣʦ ʤʧ ɖʈ ʥʨ ɟc gk ɢq ʡ ʔ
m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ
βɸ vf ðθ zs ʒʃ ʐʂ ʑɕ ʝç ɣx ʁχ ʕħ ʢʜ ɦh
ʋ ɹ ɻ j ɰ ʙ r ʀ ѵ ɾ ɽ ɮɬ l ɭ ʎ ʟ ɺ
ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ ʍ ɥ ɧ
i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u ɪ ʏ ʊ e ø ɘ ɵ ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ɞ ʌ ɔ æ ɐ a ɶ ɑ ɒ

How do you transcribe a big wet smoochy-woochy?
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CinnamonTrees
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Re: Caddo sketch and Q/A

Post by CinnamonTrees » Sun 18 May 2014, 07:06

ZedSed wrote:It's not very pretty, but I hope it's clear. I wish I knew how you guys create those pretty tables, but I'm all thumbs when it comes to computer skills. Does anyone here have the know-how to put up something prettier?
Easiest way I can think of is to take screenshots of a spreadsheet or word-processing program, upload them to something like imgur, and then embed the image. Some people here use code blocks, since they preserve white space, but I don't find that very readable myself.

As for a program to use, the most basic would be MS Office (Excel or Word). I use Apple's Pages myself (and Numbers for documents that consist solely of large conjugations or declensions), but of course that's Mac only. In fact, if you have a Mac, TextEdit (the default text editor included with OSX) can make tables, but they're a little hard to work with.

If you don't have Office and you don't want to buy it, there's always Google Docs, which I've heard many people highly recommend. It has the benefit of being web-based, so as long as you know your Google password, you can access (and work on) your documents from anywhere.
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