Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Thanks for the comments. I'm glad you like the language, but as you suspected, I have no plans to release the font. I'd prefer to keep this my own language.
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- rupestrian
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Not even commercially, as a license for personal use unmodified under your own copyright? Please don't be annoyed at my persistence; please take it as a compliment on the value of your artistry.
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- rupestrian
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 06 Feb 2015 14:30
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Since I already peaked at the answers to the lessons, I tried my hand at varying the exercises slightly, below:
Question: I'm confused about using the imperfect auxiliary with a perfect verb in "chmeu cher bgaiy". It seems like this shouldn't be allowed as it is contradictory. Should we not rather view bgaiy here, not as an imperfect auxiliary, but as the time adverb "now" instead, and translate it as, "The mugwort has now died"?
Thank you.
Spoiler:
Question: I'm confused about using the imperfect auxiliary with a perfect verb in "chmeu cher bgaiy". It seems like this shouldn't be allowed as it is contradictory. Should we not rather view bgaiy here, not as an imperfect auxiliary, but as the time adverb "now" instead, and translate it as, "The mugwort has now died"?
Thank you.
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Is that conscript a syllabary?
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Sorry, I just intend to keep this to myself at this time.avonthalonus wrote:Not even commercially, as a license for personal use unmodified under your own copyright? Please don't be annoyed at my persistence; please take it as a compliment on the value of your artistry.
Will check the answers when I have more time. As for the imperfect auxiliary with a perfect verb: "perfect" refers to the action being completed (perhaps I could call it a perfective verb class). The imperfect auxiliary indicates the result is incomplete. In this sense, you could think of cher on its own as "died" i.e. past, and cher bgaiy as "has died" i.e. perfect.avonthalonus wrote:Since I already peaked at the answers to the lessons, I tried my hand at varying the exercises slightly, below:
Spoiler:
Question: I'm confused about using the imperfect auxiliary with a perfect verb in "chmeu cher bgaiy". It seems like this shouldn't be allowed as it is contradictory. Should we not rather view bgaiy here, not as an imperfect auxiliary, but as the time adverb "now" instead, and translate it as, "The mugwort has now died"?
Thank you.
The script is a logography. There are over 1000 characters. This image is kind of old now, and there are more characters than this image shows, but this is the best I have for you at the moment:Birdlang wrote:Is that conscript a syllabary?
Spoiler:
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- rupestrian
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- Joined: 06 Feb 2015 14:30
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
I was confused because I'm used to the definition of perfect including both a completed action and the persistent results of that action continuing into the present, as in most Indo-European languages. By persistent results, I mean the action has not been undone in the meantime with respect to the present. The plant "has died" means that we know up until now it has not "undied". But if we say, The plant "died", we only know that it experienced dying at some point in the past, but we can't say anything about what happened since then. Perhaps it came back to life in the meantime, we don't know.Will check the answers when I have more time. As for the imperfect auxiliary with a perfect verb: "perfect" refers to the action being completed (perhaps I could call it a perfective verb class). The imperfect auxiliary indicates the result is incomplete. In this sense, you could think of cher on its own as "died" i.e. past, and cher bgaiy as "has died" i.e. perfect.
So in Himmaswa perfect means only that an action simply occurred in the past? Ordinarily, I would say that is time, not aspect, and just call it a past tense. But each language has it's own terminology. So if I am to understand correctly, the Himmaswa perfect verb is equivalent to an English simple past (died), and the Himmaswa perfect verb + imperfect auxiliary is equivalent to an English present perfect (has died)?
Thank you.
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Yes, although I suppose sometimes the verb can refer to the action itself, especially if you are referring to future events.
I think the biggest and most obvious difference is that dynamic verbs with bgaiy result in an imperfect/continuous, while perfect(ive) verbs result in a perfect.
I think the biggest and most obvious difference is that dynamic verbs with bgaiy result in an imperfect/continuous, while perfect(ive) verbs result in a perfect.
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Whew! Understatement of like 2-3 years!avonthalonus wrote: please take it as a compliment on the value of your artistry.
Keep up the panegyrical work, Clawgrip
You deftly tread the way of true Crustaceousness
- Thrice Xandvii
- runic
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
...That'd make a brilliant avatar!
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Based on some discussion elsewhere, I have decided to shift the focus to practical rather than technical lessons. My next lesson will deal with some basic practical application of the language.
Lesson 6: Nice to meet you
In this lesson you will learn to:
Hwai tgerngngo Chidin.
Himma yiamkeuu aajung.
Charng Glakgar jart.
Heuukeuu aajung.
Jrat yoomaung.
My name is Chidin.
I am a subject of the Himma (Empire).
I come from Glakgar.
I am a farmer.
It's nice to meet you.
Vocabulary:
tgerngngo - to be named
yiamkeuu - citizen; subject; national
aajung - to be
charng - from; to be from; to come from
jart - to come
Glakgar - place name
heuukeuu - farmer
jrat yoomaung - nice to meet you
Language points
What and where questions
What
The word for "what" in Himmaswa is logayt. All interrogative words of this type appear at the end of the sentence. Logayt is special in that it does not require any corresponding interrogative particle.
Duool tgerngngo logayt?
"What's your name?"
Duool gokyiamchmui aajung logayt?
"What's your nationality?"
Duool jaatkar aajung logayt?
"What's your job?"
Where
The word for "where" in Himmaswa is logsar. As with logayt, this appears at the end of the sentence. However, logsar requires the use of an interrogative particle, so we will add the particle ayt to the end of the sentence.
Tui chteh logsar ayt?
"Where does he live?"
Tui gaottkar logsar ayt?
"Where does she work?"
Duool jart charng logsar ayt?
"Where do you come from?"
Himmans typically only have a single name, nearly always made up of two compounded elements. When addressing or referring to children, adults may append haip “boy” or teun “girl” as appropriate. When addressing or referring to adults, the standard respectful title gay is appended to the person’s name. Friends and family may reduplicate one of the two elements of a person’s name.
For example, Lummon could be variously be referred to, in childhood as Lumlum-haip or Monmon-haip by a close adult, in adulthood as Lummon-gay in general or as Lummon by closer acquaintances, or as Lumlum or Monmon at any age by friends and family.
Nationalities
Let's look at a few terms for nationalities:
Himma yiamkeuu - citizen of the Himma Empire
Ooksmaiy yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Oksme
Lennaa yiamkeuu - citizen of Kingdom of Lenna
Yel yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Eul
Faot yiamkeuu - citizen of the Fau Kingdom
Loyngsteuo yiamkeuu - citizen of the kingdom of Lhoangstea
Gloañsar yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Inomo
Tsuagnia yiamkeuu - citizen of the land of the Tsugna
Naaduat yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Nandut
Fountau-geum keuu - one from the Frintha
Just remove the ending yiamkeuu or keuu to find the place name (the -geum of Fountau may also be removed).
Exercises
Suppose you were asked the following questions. How would you answer? (use English for words not taught)
1. Duool tgerngngo logayt?
2. Duool gokyiamchmui aajung logayt?
3. Duool gaottkar logsar ayt?
4. Duool jaatkar aajung logayt?
What are the questions to match these answers?
1. Hwai tgerngngo Sleuodmeuon.
2. Hwai jart charng Gluattaiy.
3. Hwai ombtialeeng aajung. (restaurant owner)
4. Hwai gaottkar twarng Fngoyngchek-tauchday. (twarng: to be at)
Vocabulary from this lesson:
aajung - to be
ayt - interrogative particle
charng - from; to be from; to come from
chteh - to live; to dwell; to reside
gaottkar - to work
gokyiamchmui - nationality; allegiance
heuukeuu - farmer
ombtialeeng - restaurant owner
jaatkar - job; work
jart - to come
jrat yoomaung - nice to meet you
logayt - what
logsar - where
tgerngngo - to be named
twarng - to be at
yiamkeuu - citizen; subject; national
Additional grammar notes
You may have noticed that word order is typically SVO, but in every copular sentence so far, the order has been SOV. Typically, in copular sentences, when the complement is short (i.e. has no relative clauses, sometimes including adjectival verbs), word order is normally switched to SOV.
You may have some confusion regarding jart "come" and charng "come from" and how they are used together in the example sentences. Charng is actually a prepositional verb, which I will explain later on.
Lesson 6: Nice to meet you
In this lesson you will learn to:
- Make some simple statements about yourself
- Ask simple questions about other people
Hwai tgerngngo Chidin.
Himma yiamkeuu aajung.
Charng Glakgar jart.
Heuukeuu aajung.
Jrat yoomaung.
My name is Chidin.
I am a subject of the Himma (Empire).
I come from Glakgar.
I am a farmer.
It's nice to meet you.
Vocabulary:
tgerngngo - to be named
yiamkeuu - citizen; subject; national
aajung - to be
charng - from; to be from; to come from
jart - to come
Glakgar - place name
heuukeuu - farmer
jrat yoomaung - nice to meet you
Language points
What and where questions
What
The word for "what" in Himmaswa is logayt. All interrogative words of this type appear at the end of the sentence. Logayt is special in that it does not require any corresponding interrogative particle.
Duool tgerngngo logayt?
"What's your name?"
Duool gokyiamchmui aajung logayt?
"What's your nationality?"
Duool jaatkar aajung logayt?
"What's your job?"
Where
The word for "where" in Himmaswa is logsar. As with logayt, this appears at the end of the sentence. However, logsar requires the use of an interrogative particle, so we will add the particle ayt to the end of the sentence.
Tui chteh logsar ayt?
"Where does he live?"
Tui gaottkar logsar ayt?
"Where does she work?"
Duool jart charng logsar ayt?
"Where do you come from?"
Himmans typically only have a single name, nearly always made up of two compounded elements. When addressing or referring to children, adults may append haip “boy” or teun “girl” as appropriate. When addressing or referring to adults, the standard respectful title gay is appended to the person’s name. Friends and family may reduplicate one of the two elements of a person’s name.
For example, Lummon could be variously be referred to, in childhood as Lumlum-haip or Monmon-haip by a close adult, in adulthood as Lummon-gay in general or as Lummon by closer acquaintances, or as Lumlum or Monmon at any age by friends and family.
Nationalities
Let's look at a few terms for nationalities:
Himma yiamkeuu - citizen of the Himma Empire
Ooksmaiy yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Oksme
Lennaa yiamkeuu - citizen of Kingdom of Lenna
Yel yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Eul
Faot yiamkeuu - citizen of the Fau Kingdom
Loyngsteuo yiamkeuu - citizen of the kingdom of Lhoangstea
Gloañsar yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Inomo
Tsuagnia yiamkeuu - citizen of the land of the Tsugna
Naaduat yiamkeuu - citizen of the Kingdom of Nandut
Fountau-geum keuu - one from the Frintha
Just remove the ending yiamkeuu or keuu to find the place name (the -geum of Fountau may also be removed).
Exercises
Suppose you were asked the following questions. How would you answer? (use English for words not taught)
1. Duool tgerngngo logayt?
2. Duool gokyiamchmui aajung logayt?
3. Duool gaottkar logsar ayt?
4. Duool jaatkar aajung logayt?
What are the questions to match these answers?
1. Hwai tgerngngo Sleuodmeuon.
2. Hwai jart charng Gluattaiy.
3. Hwai ombtialeeng aajung. (restaurant owner)
4. Hwai gaottkar twarng Fngoyngchek-tauchday. (twarng: to be at)
Vocabulary from this lesson:
aajung - to be
ayt - interrogative particle
charng - from; to be from; to come from
chteh - to live; to dwell; to reside
gaottkar - to work
gokyiamchmui - nationality; allegiance
heuukeuu - farmer
ombtialeeng - restaurant owner
jaatkar - job; work
jart - to come
jrat yoomaung - nice to meet you
logayt - what
logsar - where
tgerngngo - to be named
twarng - to be at
yiamkeuu - citizen; subject; national
Additional grammar notes
You may have noticed that word order is typically SVO, but in every copular sentence so far, the order has been SOV. Typically, in copular sentences, when the complement is short (i.e. has no relative clauses, sometimes including adjectival verbs), word order is normally switched to SOV.
You may have some confusion regarding jart "come" and charng "come from" and how they are used together in the example sentences. Charng is actually a prepositional verb, which I will explain later on.
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Lesson 6:
Spoiler:
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Thanks for your interest.
shimobaatar wrote:Lesson 6:
Spoiler:
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Heh, it's my pleasure, really.
Spoiler:
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
(she)
(she)
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Himmaswa ideograms look better than Kanji/Hanzi characters. That is nice job.
Does Himmaswa have stroke order?
Does Himmaswa have rules to sort characters alphabetically?
Does Himmaswa have stroke order?
Does Himmaswa have rules to sort characters alphabetically?
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
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Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
There is a general stroke order I follow when writing, but I have not definitively laid out an official stroke order for every character. But since I'm really the only one writing them, I haven't felt the need to write something so extensive.Squall wrote:Himmaswa ideograms look better than Kanji/Hanzi characters. That is nice job.
Does Himmaswa have stroke order?
Does Himmaswa have rules to sort characters alphabetically?
There is, however, a definite and unambiguous way to calculate stroke count. All the stroke types that may appear in any character have been carefully categorized and named, so it is a simple matter to count them up.
Stroke count can be tricky though, because sometimes two or more strokes are joined together and written as a single stroke but the stroke count is not reduced, e.g.: and are both written as a single stroke each, but they both have an actual stroke count of two. has a stroke count of three but is written with one stroke, while has a stroke count of five, but is written with three strokes.
Radicals are arranged by stroke count, and characters belonging to a radical are arranged by stroke count, much like Chinese, but for the most part I haven't come up with an official order of the radical of the same stroke count, or characters of the same stroke count under the same radical.
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
1.) Leumbojao.
Hwai tgerngngo Leumbojao.
BTW: I would to see Leumbojao in Himmaswa.
2.)
Traya
Traya yiamkeuu aajung.\
3.)
Kor Charng Kor jart.
4)
wizard Wizard aajung.
wkerchmuidger 'Wizard' [img]ttp://www.vgfun.net/lee/langpage/scripts/himm ... cy/jia.png[/img]
Teaplor gor.
PS:
Wkerchmuislooay -v- wkerchmuidger: which one?
Hwai tgerngngo Leumbojao.
BTW: I would to see Leumbojao in Himmaswa.
2.)
Traya
Traya yiamkeuu aajung.\
3.)
Kor Charng Kor jart.
4)
wizard Wizard aajung.
wkerchmuidger 'Wizard' [img]ttp://www.vgfun.net/lee/langpage/scripts/himm ... cy/jia.png[/img]
Teaplor gor.
PS:
Wkerchmuislooay -v- wkerchmuidger: which one?
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
Leumbojao is (Lit. "the previous house accepts"). The character is actually pronounced bua on its own, and bo in most compounds. It is not commonly used now on its own though, so bo is the most likely reading for it, though in this case, if we were to interpret it literally, as "the previous house accepts", it should be pronounced bua. Oh well. I also hope you are noticing the similarity between , , and .Lambuzhao wrote:1.) Leumbojao.
Hwai tgerngngo Leumbojao.
BTW: I would to see Leumbojao in Himmaswa.
2.)
Traya
Traya yiamkeuu aajung.\
3.)
Kor Charng Kor jart.
4)
wizard Wizard aajung.
wkerchmuidger 'Wizard' ('Wizard' Wkerchmuidger ler Himmaswa ler "wizard" fkeu jia gor.)
Teaplor gor.
PS:
Wkerchmuislooay -v- wkerchmuidger: which one?
ploumtgenfkoung is conjuror, wizard, magician, witch (one who has arcane and probably dangerous powers)
ploumgtenbjeuup is illusionist, magician, trickster, charmer (one who can do unexplained things, but is more harmless than a ploumtgenfkoung)
fkoung is shaman, medicine man, healer, elder (one who has insight into the spirit world and can heal, aid, or guide others with this knowledge)
fkoungbjeuup is diviner, sage, fortune teller, oracle, soothsayer (one who has knowledge of the future via the spirit world in addition to the abilities of a fkoung)
Take your pick.
You're good at finding my mistakes. The one post where I wrote wkerchmuislooay is a mistake. The native script is correct, and uses wkerchmuidger, but in the Romanization I for some reason wrote the wrong thing.
wkerchmuislooay is a verb that means clarify, explain, elucidate
wkerchmuidger is a noun that means translation
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
clawgrip wrote:
Leumbojao is (Lit. "the previous house accepts").
Heeeeeeen! The previous House does indeed accept, and is unanimous in its acceptation.
Not missed. Teaplor!The character is actually pronounced bua on its own, and bo in most compounds. It is not commonly used now on its own though, so bo is the most likely reading for it, though in this case, if we were to interpret it literally, as "the previous house accepts", it should be pronounced bua. Oh well. I also hope you are noticing the similarity between , , and .
Most assuredly this is the kind of person that the character of Lambuzhao in my Tales of Kai.ploumtgenfkoung is conjuror, wizard, magician, witch (one who has arcane and probably dangerous powers)
Depending on his company, he's grandfatherly, doddering, or even unctuous, but inside he's smolderingly malevolent, filled to the brim with percolating, bilious hunjj of the millennia, the shadowiest of plans, and a grimoire full of dark arts to get what he wants achieved.
This is more like me, the Lambuzhao you all know.ploumgtenbjeuup is illusionist, magician, trickster, charmer (one who can do unexplained things, but is more harmless than a ploumtgenfkoung)
If I'm any good at that, it's that you leave an interesting, very long and worthwhile trail of breadcrumbs.You're good at finding my mistakes. The one post where I wrote wkerchmuislooay is a mistake. The native script is correct, and uses wkerchmuidger, but in the Romanization I for some reason wrote the wrong thing.
wkerchmuislooay is a verb that means clarify, explain, elucidate
wkerchmuidger is a noun that means translation
Teaplor gor!!!
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
I was never really satisfied with my explanation on the perfect verb class, so I've done some thinking and will take another stab at it.
There is no overt tense marking in Himmaswa, but there is of course narrative time frame, from which one can discern the appropriate tense. This narrative time frame determines both the interpretation of the verb and the use of aspect markers.
When the continuous aspect marker bgaiy is used with a perfect verb, it forms a standard perfect, that is to say, it indicates that the action was completed before the time locus, and that the action's results/effects persist to the time locus.
When it is used bare, without any aspect marker, it takes on different meanings. First, I want to just point out that while a bare verb can indicate habitual meaning in any time frame, I am going to ignore that right aspect for the time being so that I can focus on how it is used for non-habitual situations.
In a past time frame, it marks a perfective action, that is, an action that is regarded to have occurred at a single point in time, its start and end points not being distinguished.
Future time frames are identical: perfect verbs are perfective.
The present time frame is the confusing one, and I did not quite realize it was like this when I tried to explain it before. Bare perfect verbs generally are not used at all to refer to the present. Performative verbs, that is, verbs like "promise" or "refuse" whose actions occur by the very act of saying them, can occur in the present time frame, or perhaps saying something exactly as the action occurs. Bare perfect verbs can also be used for imminent actions, but of course, this is future reference, not present. For the most part, they simply are not used for present reference.
So if we take the original sentence and run it through all of these:
Chmeu cher.
mugwort dry.up
Past: "The mugwort died."
Present: n/a
Future: "The mugwort will die."
Chmeu cher bgaiy.
mugwort dry.up IMPERF
Past: "The mugwort had died."
Present: "The mugwort has died."
Future: "The mugwort will have died."
I hope this clears it up.
There is no overt tense marking in Himmaswa, but there is of course narrative time frame, from which one can discern the appropriate tense. This narrative time frame determines both the interpretation of the verb and the use of aspect markers.
When the continuous aspect marker bgaiy is used with a perfect verb, it forms a standard perfect, that is to say, it indicates that the action was completed before the time locus, and that the action's results/effects persist to the time locus.
When it is used bare, without any aspect marker, it takes on different meanings. First, I want to just point out that while a bare verb can indicate habitual meaning in any time frame, I am going to ignore that right aspect for the time being so that I can focus on how it is used for non-habitual situations.
In a past time frame, it marks a perfective action, that is, an action that is regarded to have occurred at a single point in time, its start and end points not being distinguished.
Future time frames are identical: perfect verbs are perfective.
The present time frame is the confusing one, and I did not quite realize it was like this when I tried to explain it before. Bare perfect verbs generally are not used at all to refer to the present. Performative verbs, that is, verbs like "promise" or "refuse" whose actions occur by the very act of saying them, can occur in the present time frame, or perhaps saying something exactly as the action occurs. Bare perfect verbs can also be used for imminent actions, but of course, this is future reference, not present. For the most part, they simply are not used for present reference.
So if we take the original sentence and run it through all of these:
Chmeu cher.
mugwort dry.up
Past: "The mugwort died."
Present: n/a
Future: "The mugwort will die."
Chmeu cher bgaiy.
mugwort dry.up IMPERF
Past: "The mugwort had died."
Present: "The mugwort has died."
Future: "The mugwort will have died."
I hope this clears it up.
Re: Himmaswa lian choo (Learn Himmaswa)
(Lesson 1)
I had the sudden urge to do a lesson in the TnS section.
Spoiler:
Spoiler: