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PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar 2012, 20:59 
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Source?

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PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar 2012, 21:42 
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Isn't it quite common of people of non-African decent, like myself and the majority of the word, to have Neanderthal DNA? I mean one could even go as far to suggest that early Homo Sapiens even intermixed with, apart from Neanderthals, other species in our Family. Also, interbreeding with a species that had been living outside of Africa for thousands of years before we migrated and thus adapted to the environment would have great advantages for the new migrants, I would think so anyway.

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 00:51 
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http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 68,00.html

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 08:35 
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And here's more about the interbreeding, this article also mentioning the denisovans:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/31/scien ... .html?_r=1
(Too lazy to find the original research paper)

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 17:25 
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The problemme is that that is based on a hypothesis, just as the few other interbreeding theories are. 1 - 4% isn't that high, and can be attributed to genetic drift. Another study have contended that up to 14% of modern European DNA is admixture, but that didn't make the news paper.

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Various analyses have examined the amount of Neanderthal contribution to modern human mtDNA. One analysis was unable to find positive evidence for interbreeding, but could not rule out a small genetic contribution (Serre et al. 2004). Other researchers (Plagnol and Wall 2006, Wall et al. 2009) looked at the pattern of variation in modern human DNA to determine whether modern humans mixed with more ancient populations. Their recent models are consistent with 14% archaic-modern admixture in European and American populations, and 1.5% admixture in East Asian populations. Nested clade phylogenetic analysis shows evidence of three expansions out of Africa at 1.9 Ma, 650,000 years, and 130,000 years, which is consistent with the admixture between ancient and modern populations rather than complete replacement (Templeton 2002, 2005, 2007). Other researchers contend that factors such as population structure within Africa could have preserved old haplotypes and produced the pattern found in the nested clade analysis (Satta and Takahata 2002).

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 17:28 
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@cyberxkhan U.S. history is boring because there is no such thing as 'American Culture', Zompist is just citing popular (manufactured) culture, overconservitivized hand-me-down occidental culture, and a miniature travel guide to the country. The only thing remarkably cultural was the Kennedy assassination date.

Cold war hisory taught 2007 on or oddly specific US history is pretty interesting.

The most boring history period has to be the US civil war, so unbareably forced and everyone thinks I am missing the point because I think it's repetitive and obvious (which it is). You can't learn ethical morals from history.

The worst time to be alive in has to be the 1930s. All that narcissism and disease would probably kill me.

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Last edited by Zontas on Thu 29 Mar 2012, 20:36, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 17:31 
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Helios wrote:
there is no such thing as 'American Culture'

...

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 17:33 
mayan
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Thakowsaizmu wrote:
Helios wrote:
there is no such thing as 'American Culture'

...


I editted the post to explain why.

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 17:56 
roman
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Thakowsaizmu wrote:
The problemme is that that is based on a hypothesis, just as the few other interbreeding theories are. 1 - 4% isn't that high, and can be attributed to genetic drift. Another study have contended that up to 14% of modern European DNA is admixture, but that didn't make the news paper.

Spoiler: show
Various analyses have examined the amount of Neanderthal contribution to modern human mtDNA. One analysis was unable to find positive evidence for interbreeding, but could not rule out a small genetic contribution (Serre et al. 2004). Other researchers (Plagnol and Wall 2006, Wall et al. 2009) looked at the pattern of variation in modern human DNA to determine whether modern humans mixed with more ancient populations. Their recent models are consistent with 14% archaic-modern admixture in European and American populations, and 1.5% admixture in East Asian populations. Nested clade phylogenetic analysis shows evidence of three expansions out of Africa at 1.9 Ma, 650,000 years, and 130,000 years, which is consistent with the admixture between ancient and modern populations rather than complete replacement (Templeton 2002, 2005, 2007). Other researchers contend that factors such as population structure within Africa could have preserved old haplotypes and produced the pattern found in the nested clade analysis (Satta and Takahata 2002).


Everything in science is based on hypotheses. Some just happen to be supported by facts more than others, and some are not supported by any facts. Genetic drift is also a possibility, but interbreeding is, i think, more propable option, considering that the populations that remained in Africa don't have these mutations.

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 19:43 
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CrazyEttin wrote:
Everything in science is based on hypotheses. Some just happen to be supported by facts more than others, and some are not supported by any facts. Genetic drift is also a possibility, but interbreeding is, i think, more propable option, considering that the populations that remained in Africa don't have these mutations.

Forming a hypothesis is only step 1.
If one can't find the facts to support a hypothesis, that hypothesis should be revised.

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 19:59 
roman
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Lodhas wrote:
CrazyEttin wrote:
Everything in science is based on hypotheses. Some just happen to be supported by facts more than others, and some are not supported by any facts. Genetic drift is also a possibility, but interbreeding is, i think, more propable option, considering that the populations that remained in Africa don't have these mutations.

Forming a hypothesis is only step 1.
If one can't find the facts to support a hypothesis, that hypothesis should be revised.


And, for now, facts seem to support the interbreeding hypothesis.

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 20:35 
mayan
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Lodhas wrote:
CrazyEttin wrote:
Everything in science is based on hypotheses. Some just happen to be supported by facts more than others, and some are not supported by any facts. Genetic drift is also a possibility, but interbreeding is, i think, more propable option, considering that the populations that remained in Africa don't have these mutations.

Forming a hypothesis is only step 1.
If one can't find the facts to support a hypothesis, that hypothesis should be revised.


Why do you need a (step 1) hypothesis? If the point of experiments are to find answers, then why do you need a guess before the process even starts?

Hypothesises after an experiment are called 'theories'.

Oh! and isn't it impossible for hybrids to birth?

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 21:43 
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Helios wrote:

Why do you need a (step 1) hypothesis? If the point of experiments are to find answers, then why do you need a guess before the process even starts?


Because you need something to test.

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 22:16 
mayan
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xingoxa wrote:
Helios wrote:

Why do you need a (step 1) hypothesis? If the point of experiments are to find answers, then why do you need a guess before the process even starts?


Because you need something to test.


You seem to be thinking of a question.

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 22:28 
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Helios wrote:
Why do you need a (step 1) hypothesis? If the point of experiments are to find answers, then why do you need a guess before the process even starts?

Hypothesis ≠ guess. You could call it an educated guess, maybe, but not just a guess. And (to elaborate a bit on xingoxa's answer) you need a hypothesis because you need to know what you're looking for in order to devise the right kind of test.

Quote:
Oh! and isn't it impossible for hybrids to birth?

It's quite a bit more complicated than that. Even if there are grounds for classifying the Neanderthals as a distinct species (instead of a subspecies), which is debatable.

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PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 22:33 
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Helios wrote:
xingoxa wrote:
Helios wrote:

Why do you need a (step 1) hypothesis? If the point of experiments are to find answers, then why do you need a guess before the process even starts?


Because you need something to test.


You seem to be thinking of a question.


No, I'm thinking of hypotheses. Unless you have a hypotheses, you have nothing to test. Theories don't formulate themselves out of the empirical data. (At least not what I am aware of.)

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar 2012, 09:27 
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Location: Canada, eh?
Not that I hate it, but I seem to find the general American revolution era up until after the World Wars era to be less interesting than the rest.

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar 2012, 12:13 
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The World Wars. They're just boring. And most other wars too. I hate wars.

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar 2012, 15:56 
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Xonen wrote:
Helios wrote:
Why do you need a (step 1) hypothesis? If the point of experiments are to find answers, then why do you need a guess before the process even starts?

Hypothesis ≠ guess. You could call it an educated guess, maybe, but not just a guess. And (to elaborate a bit on xingoxa's answer) you need a hypothesis because you need to know what you're looking for in order to devise the right kind of test.


It's not like you need an educated guess either, if you already have a question or theory to test, then would you need to have an answer before you can prove it?

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Mar 2012, 23:22 
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Helios wrote:
It's not like you need an educated guess either, if you already have a question or theory to test, then would you need to have an answer before you can prove it?

If you already have a question or theory to test, then you have a hypothesis. I'm not sure what you're thinking of when you say "hypothesis," but I'm pretty sure what you mean by "question" is what xingoxa means by "hypothesis," and what xingoxa means by "question" is something else.

I suspect that what xingoxa and Xonen mean by a question (which is not a hypothesis) would be something like:

"What factors can affect people's pain tolerance?"

Okay, we have a question! Let's test that by...what, exactly? Going and looking at people with different pain tolerances? Trying to notate every single factor that differs between them? How do we know which factors are related to pain tolerance and which are just incidental?

A better approach is to ask:

"Does swearing increase people's pain tolerance?"

I suspect that this is what you mean by "question," but it's really a hypothesis with a question mark at the end—you are making an educated guess that swearing might increase people's pain tolerance, and asking whether this educated guess is correct.

This hypothesis is quite testable. Get a bunch of people together and have them take some (harmless) pain tolerance test (like measuring how long they are able to immerse a hand in ice water) twice. On one trial, give them some collection of harmless words to shout when feeling pain. On the second trial, let them swear. (Be sure to vary the ordering of the trials.) Then calculate the average change in immersion time.

A hypothesis embedded in a question makes it testable. A question with no embedded hypothesis is not testable. (However, it can certainly be a launching point for collection of empirical data, like collecting all the information you could about people with different pain tolerances. Upon looking at this data you might notice that people with greater tolerances seemed to swear more than people with lesser tolerances. This would then become a hypothesis—an educated guess based on available data—which you would have to test through a controlled experiment. As xingoxa said, theories don't just drop out of general empirical data. Testable hypotheses do, which you then experiment with to form theories.)

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