Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
This question may be frivolous or obvious. Now obviously said people could probably use a glottal fricative, it is after all just breath, but can their language simply not use it?
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Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
It's a perfectly valid question. Yes, it's possible for a language to lack /h/ as a phoneme. I believe Rotokas is one example of such a language.
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Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
Along with almost Standard Mandarin Chinese, all languages in Australia, Slavic languages, many languages in New Guinea (Rotokas is a Papuan languages) such as Yimas, many Uralic languages, Mapudungun, and countless others I couldn't possibly name.shimobaatar wrote:It's a perfectly valid question. Yes, it's possible for a language to lack /h/ as a phoneme. I believe Rotokas is one example of such a language.
Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
Alright the others I understand, thank you for the wealth of examples, but Mandarin? What about the word for "good"(one of the few words I know)?Frislander wrote:Along with almost Standard Mandarin Chinese, all languages in Australia, Slavic languages, many languages in New Guinea (Rotokas is a Papuan languages) such as Yimas, many Uralic languages, Mapudungun, and countless others I couldn't possibly name.shimobaatar wrote:It's a perfectly valid question. Yes, it's possible for a language to lack /h/ as a phoneme. I believe Rotokas is one example of such a language.
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Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
That's generally velar fricative in the standard dialect.Isfendil wrote:Alright the others I understand, thank you for the wealth of examples, but Mandarin? What about the word for "good"(one of the few words I know)?Frislander wrote:Along with almost Standard Mandarin Chinese, all languages in Australia, Slavic languages, many languages in New Guinea (Rotokas is a Papuan languages) such as Yimas, many Uralic languages, Mapudungun, and countless others I couldn't possibly name.shimobaatar wrote:It's a perfectly valid question. Yes, it's possible for a language to lack /h/ as a phoneme. I believe Rotokas is one example of such a language.
Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
Velar and glottal fricatives are quite different things but the lack of both of them in a language is a common thing. For the lack of /h/ you don't have to go any further than French or Spanish. There are even English dialects that like ditching their /h/, though I'm not sure if any dialect does that fully.
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Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
yes, as mentioned above, it is possible, and it seems that there are languages that don't have /t/ or /k/, two of the most consonants among languages in the world.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
Doesn't like, Spanish lack it? Portuguese only has it in dialects where /rr/ turned into it, others have some sort of uvular or [r] in those positions.
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
I know Italian doesn't have /h/.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 86,336 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 86,336 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
Going by the Guide to Small Consonant Inventories over on the ZBB, phonemically, Iau has /f/ and /s/, but no /h/, as does Akoye and East Mekeo (apparently North Mekeo is even weirder, having only /z/), Central Miyako and Desano, Girawa and Keuw have just /s/.
Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be a language on the list that only has /f/ (undisputed, at least). Where there's an /f/ or a /ɸ/ you'll find one or both of /s/ and /h/.
According to that same list, Angaataha has /ʃ/ as its sole fricative.
Overall my thinking is that if you have one fricative, it's going to be either glottal or a sibilant and after that it sort of builds up, but there's nothing saying you have to have both a glottal and a sibilant fricative first before having other fricatives (note South Marquesan, Tahitian, Maori, Niuean and Sentani which have /f/ and /h/ but no /s/)
Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be a language on the list that only has /f/ (undisputed, at least). Where there's an /f/ or a /ɸ/ you'll find one or both of /s/ and /h/.
According to that same list, Angaataha has /ʃ/ as its sole fricative.
Overall my thinking is that if you have one fricative, it's going to be either glottal or a sibilant and after that it sort of builds up, but there's nothing saying you have to have both a glottal and a sibilant fricative first before having other fricatives (note South Marquesan, Tahitian, Maori, Niuean and Sentani which have /f/ and /h/ but no /s/)
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
May I extend this question a bit?
The extension is, is there at least one phoneme or one class of phonemes (by place of articulation) that must always occur in any language? Maybe <m> is my guess?
The extension is, is there at least one phoneme or one class of phonemes (by place of articulation) that must always occur in any language? Maybe <m> is my guess?
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Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
No. Maybe only one MOA, i.e. plosive. I do not know of any plosive-less language.Isfendil wrote:May I extend this question a bit?
The extension is, is there at least one phoneme or one class of phonemes (by place of articulation) that must always occur in any language?
Creyeditor
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Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
That seems reasonable. And also stipilate that there must be plosives at at least two of bilabial, alveolar and velar. (Also, when a language lacks a plosive at one of those POAs, it seeme like there must also be a glottal stop. Any counterexamples?)Creyeditor wrote:No. Maybe only one MOA, i.e. plosive. I do not know of any plosive-less language.Isfendil wrote:May I extend this question a bit?
The extension is, is there at least one phoneme or one class of phonemes (by place of articulation) that must always occur in any language?
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Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
A lot of languages have no alveolar stop, only dental stops.Frislander wrote:That seems reasonable. And also stipilate that there must be plosives at at least two of bilabial, alveolar and velar.Creyeditor wrote:No. Maybe only one MOA, i.e. plosive. I do not know of any plosive-less language.Isfendil wrote:May I extend this question a bit?
The extension is, is there at least one phoneme or one class of phonemes (by place of articulation) that must always occur in any language?
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
From previous discussions, there are exceptions to "two out of /ptk?/", but they are very, very, very few.Frislander wrote:That seems reasonable. And also stipilate that there must be plosives at at least two of bilabial, alveolar and velar. (Also, when a language lacks a plosive at one of those POAs, it seeme like there must also be a glottal stop. Any counterexamples?)Creyeditor wrote:No. Maybe only one MOA, i.e. plosive. I do not know of any plosive-less language.Isfendil wrote:May I extend this question a bit?
The extension is, is there at least one phoneme or one class of phonemes (by place of articulation) that must always occur in any language?
I'd suggest: all languages have a coronal POA. A bunch don't have labials, and I wouldn't be totally shocked if some didn't have velars, but I'm guessing everything has at least one coronal.
Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
As someone else already mentioned, French does lack one :)
Look for segments.
Even m is present in 95% of languages: http://phoible.org/parametersIsfendil wrote:May I extend this question a bit?
The extension is, is there at least one phoneme or one class of phonemes (by place of articulation) that must always occur in any language? Maybe <m> is my guess?
Look for segments.
Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
I think that every language contains at least one open vowel. Most likely, all even have a front-open vowel, albeit I'm not sure about that.Isfendil wrote:May I extend this question a bit?
The extension is, is there at least one phoneme or one class of phonemes (by place of articulation) that must always occur in any language? Maybe <m> is my guess?
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Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
I think every language has a coronal consonant, and when it has a coronal consonant, it is likely to haer a dental or alveolar consonant.Creyeditor wrote:No. Maybe only one MOA, i.e. plosive. I do not know of any plosive-less language.Isfendil wrote:May I extend this question a bit?
The extension is, is there at least one phoneme or one class of phonemes (by place of articulation) that must always occur in any language?
Also, it seems that every phoneme is absent from at least one language.
I have atated in another forum that every language seems to use at least three places of articulation, and every languages makes at least a binary(usually more) distinction on something other than the place of articulation for its consonant system.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
True, so we stipulate alveolar/dental instead.Creyeditor wrote:A lot of languages have no alveolar stop, only dental stops.Frislander wrote:That seems reasonable. And also stipilate that there must be plosives at at least two of bilabial, alveolar and velar.Creyeditor wrote:No. Maybe only one MOA, i.e. plosive. I do not know of any plosive-less language.Isfendil wrote:May I extend this question a bit?
The extension is, is there at least one phoneme or one class of phonemes (by place of articulation) that must always occur in any language?
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Re: Can a language not have a glottal fricative?
Arapaho apparently does not!Iyionaku wrote:I think that every language contains at least one open vowel. Most likely, all even have a front-open vowel, albeit I'm not sure about that.Isfendil wrote:May I extend this question a bit?
The extension is, is there at least one phoneme or one class of phonemes (by place of articulation) that must always occur in any language? Maybe <m> is my guess?