Difference between say and tell?

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Mind
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Difference between say and tell?

Post by Mind »

Hey i was wondering what the difference is between the words 'say' and 'tell'
if there is any at all because sometimes my dad would always say "say to me" or "they said to me...."
instead of "tell me" or "they told me..."
just wondering and this might be a stupid question to you guys. sorry if it is.
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Pirka
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Re: Difference between say and tell?

Post by Pirka »

No question is stupid enough to keep us from answering it. [B)]

Your example of your dad talking is without context. I would be surprised if your dad liked to say "They said a story to me" instead of "The told a story to me". Could you be a bit clearer?

As for your question, the difference between "say" and "tell" is that "say" carries a momentane meaning as opposed to "tell", which is continuous. In layman's terms, "say" happened once (e.g. "'Stop,' he said abruptly"; note the adverb "abruptly", which makes the verb seem more suddenly executed) on the cosmic timeline, while "tell" had happened for a while (e.g. "I hate when grandpa tells us his war stories the whole afternoon!"; not the temporal adverb "the whole afternoon", which makes the verb seem laboriously drawn out).

When describing someone giving out orders, it's permissible to use either "say" or "tell", but "say" might sound a bit strange, that is: "I told him to go buy some bread/I said to him to go buy some bread". Applying what I have told you above, you can think of the giving of instructions to last longer than some instantaneous action.

For any further questions you may have about natural linguistics, you may want to refer yourself hither.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Difference between say and tell?

Post by eldin raigmore »

Pirka wrote:No question is stupid enough to keep us from answering it. [B)]
Amen. [+1] [tick]

Pirka wrote:Your example of your dad talking is without context. I would be surprised if your dad liked to say "They said a story to me" instead of "They told me a story". Could you be a bit clearer?

As for your question, the difference between "say" and "tell" is that "say" carries a momentane meaning as opposed to "tell", which is continuous. In layman's terms, "say" happened once (e.g. "'Stop,' he said abruptly"; note the adverb "abruptly", which makes the verb seem more suddenly executed) on the cosmic timeline, while "tell" had happened for a while (e.g. "I hate when grandpa tells us his war stories the whole afternoon!"; not the temporal adverb "the whole afternoon", which makes the verb seem laboriously drawn out).
(FTFY.)
There's more to it.
In "say" clauses, the thing said -- the theme -- is almost obligatory, whether or not there's a goal or recipient or addressee or dative specified; and the addressee said to is optional.
In "tell" clauses, the recipient (or addressee) is almost obligatory; and provided the addressee is specified, the theme (the tale told) is optional. (But sometimes it's OK to have the theme without the goal or recipient; usually either because the addressee is clear from context, or because the addressee is generic.)

[+1]
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Micamo
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Re: Difference between say and tell?

Post by Micamo »

Well, I've always interpreted the difference as one of entailment. Similar to the difference in "I shot him" vs. "I shot at him." "Told" guarantees that the recipient got the information, "Say" leaves open the possibility that they did not (though it is often assumed they did). This is why "He said to me" is less natural-feeling than "He told me."
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Difference between say and tell?

Post by eldin raigmore »

Micamo wrote:Similar to the difference in "I shot him" vs. "I shot at him." "Told" guarantees that the recipient got the information, "Say" leaves open the possibility that they did not
Good point, as was Pirka's IMO. There may be other good points too, yet to come.
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Re: Difference between say and tell?

Post by Systemzwang »

Micamo wrote:Well, I've always interpreted the difference as one of entailment. Similar to the difference in "I shot him" vs. "I shot at him." "Told" guarantees that the recipient got the information, "Say" leaves open the possibility that they did not (though it is often assumed they did). This is why "He said to me" is less natural-feeling than "He told me."
I mostly agree with this!

(However, there's one interesting exceptional use: "I told'ya" or similar, when one can infer that the recipient maybe ~got, but at least did not internalize the utterance.
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Czwartek
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Re: Difference between say and tell?

Post by Czwartek »

Very similar to what Eldin Raigmore said, the main difference is about the other information conveyed in the sentence. Say doesn't need a recipient of the information. 'I said it into the wind' implied that there was nobody else present, and therefore no recipient of the thing said, but 'I told it into the wind' implies that the 'it' is the thing you were speaking to. In fact I'd go as far as saying that tell always implies an audience. You would never say I told a story if you were in fact saying the story to yourself.

Another difference is that tell, like inform, has a focus on conveying new information to somebody who doesn't already have that information. Say has a much broader meaning. You could say that the words tell, chat, inform, remind, ask, enquire, command, suggest, propose, lie, interject, pronounce, summon and advise (and there are no doubt more) are all part of the broad meaning of say.
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