My first language (Pituten-xun)

If you're new to these arts, this is the place to ask "stupid" questions and get directions!
Post Reply
User avatar
kkman47
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 7
Joined: 26 Dec 2011 01:56

My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by kkman47 »

CV(N)
p-[p]
t-[t]
k-[k]
l-[l]
s-
m-[m]
n-[n]
x-[tʃ] or [x]
y-[j]

a-[ɑ:]
i-[i:]
u-[u:]
e-[ə]
o-[ɔ]
é-[e]
ó-[ew]

roots-
a-oh,wow,cool

an-surprised oh(in a bad,sarcastic way)

I-yay,woohoo

in-oh no,damn, (curse word)

u-audible animal sound,

un-any other onomatopoeia

e-huh?what?who?

en-Oh!(meaning you understand)

o-painful noises

on-sex noises

ta-sky,fly,heaven

tan-earth,walk,hell(n./intj.)n

ti-whole,family,build,make,tool,bind,

tin-body part,part,fraction,break,destroy,erase,side

tu-to,at,in,possesion particle

tun-from,out,because of,from

te-food,eat,drink,breath in,smoke,to take in,gasp,taste,smell,nose,vacuum,suck up

ten-breath out, throw up, talk,cough, mouth,language,breath,wind

to-give,hand,offer,to do,sell

ton-take,foot,buy,request,receive,buy,price

pa-parent,life,origin,red,old,past,begin,head,front

pan-child,young,seed,future,butt,behind

pi-is,am,are,exist,animal,person

pin-dead,plant,to die,ghost,spirits

pu-adjective marker

pun-adverb marker

pe-numbers, to count, to increase

pen-to decrease,lower

po-big, large, much, tall

pon-short,small,few,little

ka-time,event,something,someone,place,all

kan-no one, nothing, none, 0

ki-science, wise, to know, memory, health, knowledge

kin-to think, to believe,forget,dumb

ku-to feel,emotion,sensitive,polite,unsure

kun-strong,strength,stubborn,confident,rough

ke-water, liquid, wet, cold, ocean,wash,clean

ken-fire,on fire, light, dry, hot

ko-color,white,sun

kon-black, space,moon

la-have,provide,rich,money

lan-want,need,poor,beg,ask,question

li-shine,bright,to turn on, on

lin-dark,dull,to turn off,off

lu-verb(future/present)

lun-verb(past)

le-to sit,rest,sleep,refresh,again,lay down, tired

len-awake, active, to stand,never

lo-this,these,the,here,near

lon-that,those,a,an,there,far

sa-see,view,look,look like

san-hear,sound,sounds like,loud

si-yes,correct,good,happy,hello,see ya

sin-no,wrong,bad,sad,impolite,goodbye

su-picture,screen,board

sun-Imagination,writing,art,create(art)

se-holy,god,hero,truth

sen-unholy,devil,evil,villain,lie

so-so,and,that's why,then,umm

son-or,but,yeah..but,either

ma-important items, needed thing, important

man-trivia,useless things,items

mi-i,we,my

min-you,y'all, your

mu-movement,movement verb

mun-stationary,still,wait,stop,come

me-female,girl

men-male,guy,

mo-a lot,many,more,later

mon-less,few,not a lot

xu-marks foreign word

xun-names native to the language

é-marks subject

én- denotes just a noun in general

ó-denotes object

ón-denotes time interval

kó-question particle

kón-exclamation, command particle

yu-marks beginning of sentence

yun-marks end of sentence

0-kan

1-té

2-pén

3-ké

4-lén

5-sé

6-mén

7-xé

8-yén

9-xa

yakó-what

yikó-why

yekó-when

yokó-how

yakakó-where

yapikó-whoThe grammar goes like this:
SVO
roots are added together to make larger words. the roots before the final root act as perminant qualities
tokipi-teacher (person (who) gives-knowledge)
tokipilu-to teach(present/future tense)
topiki-the science of giving animals away
tetonka-restaurant,meal,eating event(place/time/event (to) recieve-food)

each part of speech is determined by the particle attached at the end:
The particles are:é,én,ó,ón,tu,tun,pu,pun,lu,lun,xu
they always go after the things they are marking
mi+particles:
mi-I, we, me,my,myself,us,our
mié-I,we
mién-myself,ourselves
mió-me,us
mipu-like me, like us
mipun-like me, like us(adverb)
mión-when we,when I
mitu-to me,to us,mine,our
mitun-from me, from us
mixu-someone with the name Mi
milu-to be me
milun-to used to be me

verbs are not conjugated. you just add lu to the end of roots to make them present/future tense and lun for past tense
mié telu-I eat/I am eating/I will eat/I will be eating
mié telun-I ate/I was eating

numbers:
0-ka
1-té
2-pén
3-ké
4-lén
5-sé
6-mén
7-xé
8-yén
9-xa
numbers are made by "spelling out the numbers" and adding "son" (for decimals) in between each number then add "pu"to the final number root
7-xépu
10-té kapu (1 and 0)
279-pén xé xapu (2 and 7 and 9)
2.67-pén son mén xé pu (2 or/. 6 and 7)
20,000- pén so sépu kapu (2 and 5 0's)

Prepositions- prepositions are formed by adding "tu" to a root
patu-at the front/at the head(at the top/above)/in the beginning
pantu-behind/at the bottom(under)
etc.

Question particles
yakó-what
yikó-why
yekó-when
yokó-how
yakakó-where
yapikó-who
attach the question to the beginning of the verb
mié tonmulun matokatu yun.-I went to the grocery store(necessity-sellling-place)
yapikó tonmulun matokatu kó?- Who went to the grocery store?
yikó tonmulun matokatu kó?- Why did you go to the grocery store?

Hope that was good enough. If you have any more questions grammar-wise don't hesitate to ask.
http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f= ... &sk=t&sd=a
suné tilun lo tanó
Art is what made this world
http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=35798
User avatar
Micamo
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5671
Joined: 05 Sep 2010 19:48
Contact:

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by Micamo »

It's not bad at all for a first conlang.

My first suggestion is you shouldn't have all of your roots be monosyllabic, and your entire root collection shouldn't be a closed class. Languages can get away with some of its word classes being closed (Piraha for instance has only 90 verbs), but it's unrealistic to rely solely on transparent compounds.
kkman47 wrote:SVO
SVO? That's important information, but there's a lot more to a language's syntax than just basic word order. How do you form possessive constructions? Relative clauses? How would you say something like "The man I married has become a stranger to me." ?
each part of speech is determined by the particle attached at the end:
The particles are:é,én,ó,ón,tu,tun,pu,pun,lu,lun,xu
they always go after the things they are marking
mi+particles:
mi-I, we, me,my,myself,us,our
mié-I,we
mién-myself,ourselves
mió-me,us
mipu-like me, like us
mipun-like me, like us(adverb)
mión-when we,when I
mitu-to me,to us,mine,our
mitun-from me, from us
mixu-someone with the name Mi
milu-to be me
milun-to used to be me
...I'm confused.
verbs are not conjugated. you just add lu to the end of roots to make them present/future tense and lun for past tense
mié telu-I eat/I am eating/I will eat/I will be eating
mié telun-I ate/I was eating
Sounds like conjugation to me!
Prepositions- prepositions are formed by adding "tu" to a root
patu-at the front/at the head(at the top/above)/in the beginning
pantu-behind/at the bottom(under)
etc.
It sounds like this means prepositions are an open class, which is... well, kinda impossible.
attach the question to the beginning of the verb
mié tonmulun matokatu yun.-I went to the grocery store(necessity-sellling-place)
yapikó tonmulun matokatu kó?- Who went to the grocery store?
yikó tonmulun matokatu kó?- Why did you go to the grocery store?
How would you say "Why did he go to the grocery store?"
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

My shitty twitter
Trailsend
moderator
moderator
Posts: 1451
Joined: 18 Aug 2010 05:22

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by Trailsend »

Micamo wrote:
Prepositions- prepositions are formed by adding "tu" to a root
patu-at the front/at the head(at the top/above)/in the beginning
pantu-behind/at the bottom(under)
etc.
It sounds like this means prepositions are an open class, which is... well, kinda impossible.
How come? It sounds to me like a reasonable device for productive derivation.
任何事物的发展都是物极必反,否极泰来。
User avatar
Micamo
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5671
Joined: 05 Sep 2010 19:48
Contact:

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by Micamo »

Trailsend wrote:How come? It sounds to me like a reasonable device for productive derivation.
Dare I ask, what would "ontu" translate to?
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

My shitty twitter
User avatar
Xing
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4153
Joined: 22 Aug 2010 18:46

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by Xing »

Could it be that 'tu' is the real adposition? Or a kind of general-purpose oblique case marker?
User avatar
kkman47
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 7
Joined: 26 Dec 2011 01:56

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by kkman47 »

Micamo wrote:It's not bad at all for a first conlang.

My first suggestion is you shouldn't have all of your roots be monosyllabic, and your entire root collection shouldn't be a closed class. Languages can get away with some of its word classes being closed (Piraha for instance has only 90 verbs), but it's unrealistic to rely solely on transparent compounds.
I wanted the roots to be monosyllabic because I didn't want the compound words getting too long. I'm currently working on a dictionary of words using the roots. These roots help one decipher what basically the origin of the words are.
Micamo wrote:SVO? That's important information, but there's a lot more to a language's syntax than just basic word order. How do you form possessive constructions? Relative clauses? How would you say something like "The man I married has become a stranger to me." ?
To say that would be:
Lo menpié pilu mitu soyu loka, mié kinmutulu mentu pió yun.
(The man is my (husband) and now I am-beginning-to-forget his spirit (.) )
Micamo wrote:...I'm confused.
In the roots it shows what the particles "mean"
lu- means a verb in present or future tense
é- makes the word before it a subject
and so on...
Micamo wrote:Sounds like conjugation to me!
What I meant to say is by number. sorry :P
Micamo wrote:It sounds like this means prepositions are an open class, which is... well, kinda impossible.
Could you please explain why?
Micamo wrote:How would you say "Why did he go to the grocery store?"
You'd say:
(menpié) yikó tonmulun matokatu kó? - Why did (he) go to the grocery store?
suné tilun lo tanó
Art is what made this world
http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=35798
User avatar
kkman47
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 7
Joined: 26 Dec 2011 01:56

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by kkman47 »

Micamo wrote:
Trailsend wrote:How come? It sounds to me like a reasonable device for productive derivation.
Dare I ask, what would "ontu" translate to?
Hahaha. The first 10 "onomatopoeia" are not actual words so they can't be used with other words. So "ontu" couldn't be a valid word.
suné tilun lo tanó
Art is what made this world
http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=35798
User avatar
kkman47
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 7
Joined: 26 Dec 2011 01:56

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by kkman47 »

xingoxa wrote:Could it be that 'tu' is the real adposition? Or a kind of general-purpose oblique case marker?
I may be wrong (cause I'm not too familiar with a bunch of grammatical points) but i believe it is a general-purpose oblique case [:S]
suné tilun lo tanó
Art is what made this world
http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=35798
User avatar
Micamo
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5671
Joined: 05 Sep 2010 19:48
Contact:

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by Micamo »

kkman47 wrote:To say that would be:
Lo menpié pilu mitu soyu loka, mié kinmutulu mentu pió yun.
(The man is my (husband) and now I am-beginning-to-forget his spirit (.) )
I strongly suggest you learn the Leipzig Glossing Rules. Interlinear glosses make it much easier for us to pick apart and analyze your examples so we can understand what's going on in the language.

Anyway, as far as I can tell, it looks like Pituten-xun uses the non-reduction relativization strategy, which is a very important feature. (and it's also very creative of you to have come up with that on your own!)
Could you please explain why?
Because English, with the largest inventory of adpositions in the world, doesn't have them as an open class. Speakers being able to invent new adpositions at will and be understood simply doesn't happen in natural languages. Of course this only matters if you care about your language being human-speakable, but still.
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

My shitty twitter
User avatar
Xing
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4153
Joined: 22 Aug 2010 18:46

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by Xing »

kkman47 wrote:
Micamo wrote:It's not bad at all for a first conlang.

My first suggestion is you shouldn't have all of your roots be monosyllabic, and your entire root collection shouldn't be a closed class. Languages can get away with some of its word classes being closed (Piraha for instance has only 90 verbs), but it's unrealistic to rely solely on transparent compounds.
I wanted the roots to be monosyllabic because I didn't want the compound words getting too long. I'm currently working on a dictionary of words using the roots. These roots help one decipher what basically the origin of the words are.
My Nibmel used to have only monosyllabic morphemes. A quite limited number of them, also. It was thought to be a kind of oligosynthetic laguage. But I don't know if this hold anymore. Probably some compounds could be analysed as morphemes in their own, since they may no longer be opaque.
User avatar
kkman47
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 7
Joined: 26 Dec 2011 01:56

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by kkman47 »

I strongly suggest you learn the Leipzig Glossing Rules. Interlinear glosses make it much easier for us to pick apart and analyze your examples so we can understand what's going on in the language.
Like this?
Lo menpi-é pi-lu so-yu lo-ka, mi-é kinmu-tu-lu men-tu pi-ó yun.
The male.person-SBJ exist-PRS and-fullstop this-time , I-SBJ forget.move-toward-PRS male-POSS spirit-OBJ fullstop
Anyway, as far as I can tell, it looks like Pituten-xun uses the non-reduction relativization strategy, which is a very important feature. (and it's also very creative of you to have come up with that on your own!)
I believe it is and thank you :)
Because English, with the largest inventory of adpositions in the world, doesn't have them as an open class. Speakers being able to invent new adpositions at will and be understood simply doesn't happen in natural languages. Of course this only matters if you care about your language being human-speakable, but still.
I'm in the process of making a dictionary of words that cannot be made up by people. Usually the only time someone would make up a new word would be if there were something that wasn't in the dictionary before or when teenagers talk slang. I hope that's what you were asking. [:S]
suné tilun lo tanó
Art is what made this world
http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=35798
Khemehekis
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 3885
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by Khemehekis »

kkman47 wrote: I wanted the roots to be monosyllabic because I didn't want the compound words getting too long. I'm currently working on a dictionary of words using the roots. These roots help one decipher what basically the origin of the words are.
Cool, an oligosynthetic language! We've had a number of oligolangs of this board. I also found the meanings you lump together under your roots to be interesting. Dead with plant?

Have you checked out aUI?
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Solarius
roman
roman
Posts: 1173
Joined: 30 Aug 2010 01:23

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by Solarius »

If you have an oligosynthetic language and you want to work on verbs, you may want to pay attention to Kobon, which has about 90 verbs. To make up for this, Kobon has tons and tons of verb serialization. That sort of think might be something you want to keep in mind.
User avatar
eldin raigmore
korean
korean
Posts: 6352
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by eldin raigmore »

kkman47 wrote: Like this?
Lo menpi-é pi-lu so-yu lo-ka, mi-é kinmu-tu-lu men-tu pi-ó yun.
The male.person-SBJ exist-PRS and-fullstop this-time , I-SBJ forget.move-toward-PRS male-POSS spirit-OBJ fullstop
Pretty good, I think, but why do you use "fullstop" twice? I would expect it could come only at the end.
What's meant by the gloss "and-fullstop"? Is that "-fullstop" morpheme different from the independent-word sentence-final "fullstop"?
I think I mean; what's "so-yu" and what's "yun"?
User avatar
kkman47
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 7
Joined: 26 Dec 2011 01:56

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by kkman47 »

eldin raigmore wrote:
kkman47 wrote: Like this?
Lo menpi-é pi-lu so-yu lo-ka, mi-é kinmu-tu-lu men-tu pi-ó yun.
The male.person-SBJ exist-PRS and-fullstop this-time , I-SBJ forget.move-toward-PRS male-POSS spirit-OBJ fullstop
Pretty good, I think, but why do you use "fullstop" twice? I would expect it could come only at the end.
What's meant by the gloss "and-fullstop"? Is that "-fullstop" morpheme different from the independent-word sentence-final "fullstop"?
I think I mean; what's "so-yu" and what's "yun"?
yu and yun show where a sentence/thought changes. soyu (and yunso) is sort of a way to connect sentences soyu meaning "and now a new thought" (yunso meaning "done with this thought and")
suné tilun lo tanó
Art is what made this world
http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=35798
User avatar
eldin raigmore
korean
korean
Posts: 6352
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by eldin raigmore »

kkman47 wrote:yu and yun show where a sentence/thought changes. soyu (and yunso) is sort of a way to connect sentences.
soyu meaning "and now a new thought" (yunso meaning "done with this thought and")
Thanks! [:)]
User avatar
kkman47
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 7
Joined: 26 Dec 2011 01:56

Re: My first language (Pituten-xun)

Post by kkman47 »

Khemehekis wrote: Cool, an oligosynthetic language! We've had a number of oligolangs of this board. I also found the meanings you lump together under your roots to be interesting. Dead with plant?

Have you checked out aUI?
From what I've seen on it, aUI seems like a pretty cool language. I like how the words are formed. As for Pituten's roots, yeah i gotta admit that some of them are weird like "ko" for white and sun/
Solarius wrote:If you have an oligosynthetic language and you want to work on verbs, you may want to pay attention to Kobon, which has about 90 verbs. To make up for this, Kobon has tons and tons of verb serialization. That sort of think might be something you want to keep in mind.
Thank you so much. This will help me a whole lot. :D

PS: sorry for taking so long to respond. It's been a busy week. :/
suné tilun lo tanó
Art is what made this world
http://www.unilang.org/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=35798
Post Reply