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PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2012, 22:16 
roman
roman

Joined: Sun 15 Aug 2010, 15:48
Posts: 513
eldin raigmore wrote:

Some languages -- I believe Finnish and Hungarian and Hindi and Turkish may be among them -- have case-endings that seem to be made up out of two or three different morphemes.


For Finnish, there isn't really enough to establish a pattern.

you have

-ltA -llA -lle
-stA -ssA -(h)Vn
--- -nA -ksi

the -e pseudomorpheme doesn't form any pattern but exclusively pops up in one spot - other than that, the ltA, llA, lle would seem to be a good candidate, esp. as stA ssA starts out just the same; but then you don't get sse at the end of that. and -na and ksi, that in many ways serve similar roles as llA/ssA and lle/hVn - and sometimes in fact can be used for the very exact same meaning - don't help out either.


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PostPosted: Wed 25 Apr 2012, 00:41 
fire
fire

Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 19:38
Posts: 2809
Systemzwang wrote:
eldin raigmore wrote:
Some languages -- I believe Finnish and Hungarian and Hindi and Turkish may be among them -- have case-endings that seem to be made up out of two or three different morphemes.
For Finnish, there isn't really enough to establish a pattern.

you have

-ltA -llA -lle
-stA -ssA -(h)Vn
--- -nA -ksi

the -e pseudomorpheme doesn't form any pattern but exclusively pops up in one spot - other than that, the ltA, llA, lle would seem to be a good candidate, esp. as stA ssA starts out just the same; but then you don't get sse at the end of that. and -na and ksi, that in many ways serve similar roles as llA/ssA and lle/hVn - and sometimes in fact can be used for the very exact same meaning - don't help out either.


Thanks.
I mentioned four languages, because my memory doesn't serve to tell me which languages I was trying to remember. I'm pretty sure at least two of those four has the kind of case-system I was thinking of; but I'm not surprised that at least one of them doesn't.

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Apr 2012, 15:29 
roman
roman

Joined: Sun 15 Aug 2010, 15:48
Posts: 513
eldin raigmore wrote:
Systemzwang wrote:
eldin raigmore wrote:
Some languages -- I believe Finnish and Hungarian and Hindi and Turkish may be among them -- have case-endings that seem to be made up out of two or three different morphemes.
For Finnish, there isn't really enough to establish a pattern.

you have

-ltA -llA -lle
-stA -ssA -(h)Vn
--- -nA -ksi

the -e pseudomorpheme doesn't form any pattern but exclusively pops up in one spot - other than that, the ltA, llA, lle would seem to be a good candidate, esp. as stA ssA starts out just the same; but then you don't get sse at the end of that. and -na and ksi, that in many ways serve similar roles as llA/ssA and lle/hVn - and sometimes in fact can be used for the very exact same meaning - don't help out either.


Thanks.
I mentioned four languages, because my memory doesn't serve to tell me which languages I was trying to remember. I'm pretty sure at least two of those four has the kind of case-system I was thinking of; but I'm not surprised that at least one of them doesn't.

Turkish has a relatively small case system consisting of but 8 or so cases, and there's no cartesian component like {on, in, under} * {to, at, from} in operation in it. The hungarian system looks like it might have had some more regular underlying function as far as that goes, but it's lost any clear regularity in it too.

Hindi might get close, but it seems the combination of adpositions there isn't entirely straightforward either.


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PostPosted: Wed 25 Apr 2012, 18:02 
mayan
mayan
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Joined: Fri 27 Aug 2010, 08:17
Posts: 1175
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]
Systemzwang wrote:
eldin raigmore wrote:
Systemzwang wrote:
eldin raigmore wrote:
Some languages -- I believe Finnish and Hungarian and Hindi and Turkish may be among them -- have case-endings that seem to be made up out of two or three different morphemes.
For Finnish, there isn't really enough to establish a pattern.

you have

-ltA -llA -lle
-stA -ssA -(h)Vn
--- -nA -ksi

the -e pseudomorpheme doesn't form any pattern but exclusively pops up in one spot - other than that, the ltA, llA, lle would seem to be a good candidate, esp. as stA ssA starts out just the same; but then you don't get sse at the end of that. and -na and ksi, that in many ways serve similar roles as llA/ssA and lle/hVn - and sometimes in fact can be used for the very exact same meaning - don't help out either.


Thanks.
I mentioned four languages, because my memory doesn't serve to tell me which languages I was trying to remember. I'm pretty sure at least two of those four has the kind of case-system I was thinking of; but I'm not surprised that at least one of them doesn't.

Turkish has a relatively small case system consisting of but 8 or so cases, and there's no cartesian component like {on, in, under} * {to, at, from} in operation in it. The hungarian system looks like it might have had some more regular underlying function as far as that goes, but it's lost any clear regularity in it too.

Hindi might get close, but it seems the combination of adpositions there isn't entirely straightforward either.


As I know, Hindi is a complicated case of defining cases as Japanese.
It can either have two cases: direct and oblique and several postpositions joined to the oblique case.
Or it can have several cases if the postpositions are defined as affixes.

Historically the Finnish case system consist of two elements the fist being derivational. (There are other thories too)

miehe-lä-nä
man-'place'-LOC
'at husband's house' = 'married'
>miehe-llä
man-ADESS
in man's possession/in man's place


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