Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
Very simple question here: What Turkic or Mongolic language is a very good intro to understanding how the grammar of said languages work? I hear that Turkish itself is very regular but I am wondering if the whole family is that way or not.
- k1234567890y
- mayan
- Posts: 2400
- Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
- Contact:
Re: Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
Sadly I don't know any Turkic or Mongolic language, although I possess some knowledge of a Tungusic language, it is Manchu, however, Manchu is slightly more irregular compared to Japanese and Turkish I think.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
Manchu wouldn't happen to be both tonal and agglutinative, would it?k1234567890y wrote:Sadly I don't know any Turkic or Mongolic language, although I possess some knowledge of a Tungusic language, it is Manchu, however, Manchu is slightly more irregular compared to Japanese and Turkish I think.
- k1234567890y
- mayan
- Posts: 2400
- Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
- Contact:
Re: Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
Manchu is not tonal as what I know, you misunderstood?Isfendil wrote:Manchu wouldn't happen to be both tonal and agglutinative, would it?k1234567890y wrote:Sadly I don't know any Turkic or Mongolic language, although I possess some knowledge of a Tungusic language, it is Manchu, however, Manchu is slightly more irregular compared to Japanese and Turkish I think.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
No I was just curious. It is agglutinative, though? And what are the extent/nature of its irregularities?k1234567890y wrote:Manchu is not tonal as what I know, you misunderstood?Isfendil wrote:Manchu wouldn't happen to be both tonal and agglutinative, would it?k1234567890y wrote:Sadly I don't know any Turkic or Mongolic language, although I possess some knowledge of a Tungusic language, it is Manchu, however, Manchu is slightly more irregular compared to Japanese and Turkish I think.
- k1234567890y
- mayan
- Posts: 2400
- Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
- Contact:
Re: Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
yes, it is agglutinative, however, the plural forms of few nouns and the conjugations of several verbs are different.Isfendil wrote:No I was just curious. It is agglutinative, though? And what are the extent/nature of its irregularities?k1234567890y wrote:Manchu is not tonal as what I know, you misunderstood?Isfendil wrote:Manchu wouldn't happen to be both tonal and agglutinative, would it?k1234567890y wrote:Sadly I don't know any Turkic or Mongolic language, although I possess some knowledge of a Tungusic language, it is Manchu, however, Manchu is slightly more irregular compared to Japanese and Turkish I think.
While the regular conjugation pattern of a Manchu Verb follow the following rules, and vowel harmony should be considered in certain cases:
- present/future: -mbi
- future/present(also used for attributive verbs in present tense, like Japanese, Manchu uses attributive verb to form relative clauses): -ra/-re/-ro
- past(or perfective): -ha/-he/-ho
- converb I: -me
- converb II(indicating the action of the verb ended with -fi happens first): -fi
- desiderative: -ki
- imperative: -Ø
- prohibitive: the future/present form+the preverbal word ume
these are not all, but I think what I have listed are the more common ones
an example of the conjugation pattern of a regular verb in Manchu is genembi " to go":
- present/future: gene-mbi
- future/present: gene-re
- past(or perfective): gene-he
- converb I: gene-me
- converb II(indicating the action of the verb ended with -fi happens first): gene-fi
- desiderative: gene-ki
- imperative: gene
- prohibitive: ume genere
however, some verbs are irregular for example, the conjugation of the verb jembi "to eat" is irregular in certain forms(irregular forms are in bold):
- present/future: je-mbi
- future/present: jetere
- past(or perfective): jeke
- converb I: je-me
- converb II(indicating the action of the verb ended with -fi happens first): je-fi
- desiderative: je-ki
- imperative: jefu
- prohibitive: ume jetere
another example irregular verb is the verb sembi "to say"(irregular forms are in bold):
- present/future: se-mbi
- future/present: se-re
- past(or perfective): sengke
- converb I: se-me
- converb II(indicating the action of the verb ended with -fi happens first): sempi(it seems that the phoneme /p/, represented by <p>, is rare in native Manchu words)
- desiderative: se-ki
- imperative: se
- prohibitive: ume se-re
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
Do you know how those came to be? The first irregular almost looks like two verbs wwere conflated with each other.
- k1234567890y
- mayan
- Posts: 2400
- Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
- Contact:
Re: Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
uncertain, unless I get data of other Tungusic languages and really done some serious research, but my guess is that the original root form of jembi might be something like jep-, and the original future form might be something like jep-dere(which then became jeptere and then jettere, a similar sound change has happened in Italian, Italian otto is from Latin octo), and the older imperative form might be -u rather than simply dropping the present ending.Isfendil wrote:Do you know how those came to be? The first irregular almost looks like two verbs wwere conflated with each other.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
Manchu seems really interesting. Why do you study it? Do you study the Qing, too? How did they work with this?k1234567890y wrote:uncertain, unless I get data of other Tungusic languages and really done some serious research, but my guess is that the original root form of jembi might be something like jep-, and the original future form might be something like jep-dere(which then became jeptere and then jettere, a similar sound change has happened in Italian, Italian otto is from Latin octo), and the older imperative form might be -u rather than simply dropping the present ending.Isfendil wrote:Do you know how those came to be? The first irregular almost looks like two verbs wwere conflated with each other.
- k1234567890y
- mayan
- Posts: 2400
- Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
- Contact:
Re: Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
Originally I wanted to created an Altaic conlang for one of my conworlds...but I couldn't make something satisfying...so I decided to directly make a posteriori based on Manchu, and give them a background that they came to my conworld sometime before the Qing dynasty.Isfendil wrote: Manchu seems really interesting. Why do you study it? Do you study the Qing, too? How did they work with this?
Btw, I think I know more about the Chinese history than the history of the western world.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
This is not a bad thing.k1234567890y wrote:Originally I wanted to created an Altaic conlang for one of my conworlds...but I couldn't make something satisfying...so I decided to directly make a posteriori based on Manchu, and give them a background that they came to my conworld sometime before the Qing dynasty.Isfendil wrote: Manchu seems really interesting. Why do you study it? Do you study the Qing, too? How did they work with this?
Btw, I think I know more about the Chinese history than the history of the western world.
So how proficient are you with Manchu?
- k1234567890y
- mayan
- Posts: 2400
- Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
- Contact:
Re: Introductory Research into Turkic/Mongolic?
I don't think I am very proficient with it, but I can at least type some sentences, and I only know the romanization of Manchu...Isfendil wrote:This is not a bad thing.k1234567890y wrote:Originally I wanted to created an Altaic conlang for one of my conworlds...but I couldn't make something satisfying...so I decided to directly make a posteriori based on Manchu, and give them a background that they came to my conworld sometime before the Qing dynasty.Isfendil wrote: Manchu seems really interesting. Why do you study it? Do you study the Qing, too? How did they work with this?
Btw, I think I know more about the Chinese history than the history of the western world.
So how proficient are you with Manchu?
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.