Deriving new pronouns

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Davush
greek
greek
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Joined: 10 Jan 2015 14:10

Deriving new pronouns

Post by Davush »

Hello,

In my proto-language I have a set of pronouns which are very short. In some daughter-langs, I would like a pronoun system with more 'robust' forms (i.e. more than one syllable or similar developments).

The proto-lang has:

1 ma
2 sha
3 haw
1pl maru
2pl sharu
3pl hawru / huru

How could I go about gaining 'stronger' pronouns from a set like this? I'm not sure what type of developments pronouns often go through.

Thanks.
Nachtuil
greek
greek
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Re: Deriving new pronouns

Post by Nachtuil »

You already have pluralisation going on. You could add affixes from gender, honorifics and perhaps tense. If there is an old copula that was conjugated perhaps the first letter or so can migrate over from the ancient copula to the pronoun.

Copula = taja/peju/klajo (1st, 2nd, 3rd person)
Pronoun bolded:
Ma taja -> mat aja -> mat ja
Sha peju -> shap eju -> shap ju
Haw klajo -> hawk lajo -> hawk lajo
Maru taja -> marut aja -> marut ja
Sharu peju -> sharup eju -> sharup ju
Hawru klajo -> hawruk lajo -> hawruk lajo

The copula itself could change and or disappear too.

For honorifics... or social register is it called? You could have a polite affix that creates new pronouns or to replace existing pronouns.
Possible affixes: i- da- ki-
ima dasha kihaw
(ok probably not for the first person singular)

With all the above you can throw in some sound changes and lenition.
mahagugu
rupestrian
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Re: Deriving new pronouns

Post by mahagugu »

You already derived the plural forms from the singular forms.

Do you want the language to have an own pronoun for "-self" ?
It is quite practical and I think most languages have it.
Davush
greek
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Posts: 672
Joined: 10 Jan 2015 14:10

Re: Deriving new pronouns

Post by Davush »

mahagugu wrote:You already derived the plural forms from the singular forms.

Do you want the language to have an own pronoun for "-self" ?
It is quite practical and I think most languages have it.
I don't mean derivation within the language itself, I meant derivation of pronouns in daughter languages, i.e. how might a pronoun system change through time (other than just applying sound changes).
Hakaku
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Re: Deriving new pronouns

Post by Hakaku »

What options are available to you depend on what other features the language may have. For example:

Reduplication:

If the language had or developed productive reduplication, you could easily end up with forms like 'mama', 'ʃaʃa', 'hawhaw', 'marumaru/maruru/mamaru', etc. Reduplication isn't always necessarily that straight forward. There can be irregular reduplication, sound changes, stress patterns or vowel/consonant harmony that occur that change the shape of the reduplicated forms. So you could have, e.g. 'mani', ʃaʒi', 'haʋy', 'maruniry', etc.

Tensing and merging:

In the same light as reduplication, the language could develop weak and strong forms of the pronouns. So you could end up with something like mə/ma, ʃə/ʃa, hə/haw, etc. The strong form could then be used alongside the weak form, not unlike how French goes "Moi, je mange..." (Me, I eat...). Then, if they're consistently used together, they could just merge back into one: mamə, ʃaʃə, hawhə, marumə, ʃaruʃə, etc.

Merging with other words:

Basically, if the pronouns start being used very frequently with other words, those secondary words could start losing their original meaning and effectively become part of the pronoun itself or function as a new pronoun in your system. For example, in English, you have "You guys" or "You all/Y'all" which can be considered a single unit of meaning. In Canadian French, a similar phenomenon happens: "vous autres" (lit. you others).

Derivation from other constructions:

Instead of using the same pronouns, you can derive new pronouns from completely different constructions. For example, in Japanese, you have lots of pronouns that are derived from a combination of demonstratives and nouns, like anata "you" (but historically meant "that person"/"that way") which stems from "a-no-kata" (distal demonstrative + genitive + person/way).

If your language has a register/politeness system, you could expect for something like this to happen, as long-winded forms are often seen as more formal. Think, "My esteemed self" or "My humble self" versus "I". Eventually, the prestigious form starts spreading to people of other classes who don't want to be seen as uncultured, gets reduced a bit, and could ultimately become the new standard form. This process can be sped up if you add a taboo to the old forms (who wants to speak like a country bumpkin? Or: only traitors would use such language.).
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