Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #94: Face and Politeness)

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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #87: Determiners)

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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #88: Ancient Greek)

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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #88: Ancient Greek)

Post by Lambuzhao »

Well presented episode!

As a Hellenophile (:grc: [<3] ) of many years, I can say you covered many points well about that "smorgasbord" of a language.

Just a couple of addenda -


Sigma /s/ comes at the end of words, like rho /r/ and nu /n/.

Greek verbs do exhibit infixes. There are some nasal infixes, which generally are forgotten b/c they are so closely associated with present-stems:

E.G. -
λαμβάνω /lam.ba.no:/ “I take”
μανθάνω /man.tha.no:/ “I learn”
πυνθάνομαι /pyn.tha.no.aj/ “I inquire”
τυγχάνω /tyŋ.kha.no:/ “I happen to…”

For the 700+ verb forms any old verb can take, many Grammars list action words in appendices as having 6 Principle Parts. Having studied :lat: for years, I saw utility in 4 principle parts. But I took one look at the SIX principle parts for Greek and said to myself "Game Over". [>_<]

Concerning the spread of (Doric) Greek dialects to places like Sicily (Magna Graecia), you made a perfect set-up to at least mention in passing GRIKO. No such luck [:'(] Though you did mention Tsakonian [:D]


Particles. The textbook for my old Graduate Greek Composition course was not whatever the professor assigned us. It was Denniston's The Greek Particles:
that was what we wrangled with the most.

Participles. ANOTHER whole episode could easily deal solely with Greek participles. [tick] I opine that the biggest irretrevable loss to :ell: was her loss of participial vigor.
.........

Greek is a TREASURE-TROVE of ideas. Rightly pointing out that langs can be crazy like Greek; I took my cue from :grc: with my :con: Rozwi. I am still wrestling with exactly just how many classes of verbs it has (thank you very much, Language of Homer). I think too many :con: ers associate the art with clean, one shoe fits all
morphology like Esperanto.

Also, rightly pointing out the dialects as models for synchronic variation. They are excellent models. Vau/Digamma suppletion versus expression, and [Ionic] vowel fronting versus [Doric] vowel centering, are just two ripe topics that come to mind.

Thirdly, where ARE the Greek-based conlangs? :grc: / :ell: :con: s unite!
That could be still yet ANOTHER episode idea :wat:

Kudos on the episode!
Last edited by Lambuzhao on 16 Apr 2013 05:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #88: Ancient Greek)

Post by atman »

Very interesting episode!
Lambuzhao wrote:Thirdly, where ARE the Greek-based conlangs? :grc: / :ell: :con: s unite!
Here is one! Not a terribly realistic diachronic language (it's a descendent of Ancient Greek spoken in the present-day Azores Islands), but I do like its overall style and sounds. SOV typical word order, additional cases and sounds and heavy use of participles/infinitives are its main features.

As a sample, see Schleicher's fable in Modern Atlantean:

Owis hipeke

Owis eryunu bunar hipes evleshe, inon baran amashan helkenton, inon megalon forton ferenton, inonke azhron taqiyat ferenton.
Owis hipet efraze: "Alge karzha mit, vlepentit azhron hipes agenton".
Hipe efrazon: "Kluvar, owis! Algon karzhe met enta tin vlepeme: anar, kuryos, sis eryuf toshal termon qlamudon poye. Ke owis eryon deneqte".
Utor ekluvetor, owis dashtavaral efwekse.


sheep wool-without hill-LOC horse-ACC.PL PAST-see-3SG, one-ACC heavy-ACC wagon-ACC pull-PTCP-ACC, one-ACC big-ACC load-ACC carry-PTCP-ACC, one-ACC-and man-ACC speed-ADV carry-PTCP-ACC.
sheep horse-DAT.PL PAST-say-3SG: "hurt-3SG heart I-DAT, see-PTCP-DAT man-ACC horse-ACC.PL drive-PTCP-ACC".
horse-PL PAST-say-3PL: "hear-IMP, sheep! hurt-3PL heart-PL we-DAT when this-ACC see-1PL: man, owner, you-GEN wool-STR he-BENEF warm-ACC mantle-ACC make-3SG. and sheep wool-ACC not-have-3SG".
this-LOC PAST-hear-PTCP-LOC, sheep plain-LAT PAST-flee-3SG.
Երկնէր երկին, երկնէր երկիր, երկնէր և ծովն ծիրանի.
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #88: Ancient Greek)

Post by Lambuzhao »

Ooooh! [:)]

I wonder if your Atlantean is "a close cousin" to Costanice, an Iberian :grc: :con:
?


Costanice - Hellenic language of Nea Illenicia:

http://ib.frath.net/w/Nea_Illenicia
http://jaspax.com/lang/

(Grrr.....the jaspax links might be defunct...time to summon the Wayback Machine!)

Costanice Language Evolution
http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http://w ... iew/31/29/

Costanice Phonology
http://web.archive.org/web/200708170659 ... iew/30/29/

Costanice Nouns
http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http://w ... iew/32/39/

Gospel of Mark (excerpt)
http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http://w ... iew/29/29/
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #88: Ancient Greek)

Post by Lambuzhao »

And, there is TAKE (To Anev Klisi Ellenike) by Ray Armar Brown -

http://www.carolandray.plus.com/TAKE/index.html


...And our own SLiV has worked on his own :grc: :con: Lurioneski -
http://sliv-lurion.blogspot.com/

Of course, the more elusive of the bunch are the elder :ell: :con:, such as de la Grassiere's Apolema
And the veritable Holy Grail, nay, the Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius of :con:, I give you IXESSOIRE,
collective output of the youthful Raymond Poincaré, Pol Brouchot, Lucien Poincaré and a couple of other naughty confederates.

Why do I know or care about these rarest of linguistic nuggets? Well, because I have two of my own :grc: :con: (maybe artlangs or ideoglossa are more appropriate). One is called Iveriki, which is essentially Ancient :grc: in form, but has some modern :ell: phonological changes put into overdrive. A second, called Gavik, was originally supposed to be a niece-lang to Iveriki. However, I experimented with some heavy chuintante (affrication?) in the phonology, based on some Greek-speakers I met who said things like /βreʃej/ for /βrexej/, plus influence from :ukr: which is a heritage language of mine that was getting drilled into my head by my Grandmother (pbuh), and, of all things, some whacky speech impediments of one of my nephews. More later... [B)]
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #88: Ancient Greek)

Post by atman »

Lambuzhao wrote:Ooooh! [:)]

I wonder if your Atlantean is "a close cousin" to Costanice, an Iberian :grc: :con: ?
From what I saw, Costanice and Atlantika aren't much alike. Atlantika developed largely in isolation in the Mid-Atlantic, and so is a very conservative language phonologically (but I could add some more sound changes later). However, it has many innovations in grammar. Of course the nearby Iberian languages were an influence: besides a few loanwords from all three, Atlantika has "copied" two cases from Basque, inverted question/exclamation marks from Spanish, lh and nh spellings for /ʎ/ and /ɲ/ from Portuguese.
Lambuzhao wrote:the Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius of :con:
I really like the Jorge Luis Borges (fellow Argentine and storyteller extraordinaire) reference!
Երկնէր երկին, երկնէր երկիր, երկնէր և ծովն ծիրանի.
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #88: Ancient Greek)

Post by Lambuzhao »

atman wrote:
Lambuzhao wrote:Ooooh! [:)]

I wonder if your Atlantean is "a close cousin" to Costanice, an Iberian :grc: :con: ?
From what I saw, Costanice and Atlantika aren't much alike. Atlantika developed largely in isolation in the Mid-Atlantic, and so is a very conservative language phonologically (but I could add some more sound changes later). However, it has many innovations in grammar. Of course the nearby Iberian languages were an influence: besides a few loanwords from all three, Atlantika has "copied" two cases from Basque, inverted question/exclamation marks from Spanish, lh and nh spellings for /ʎ/ and /ɲ/ from Portuguese.
Lambuzhao wrote:the Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius of :con:
I really like the Jorge Luis Borges (fellow Argentine and storyteller extraordinaire) reference!
PIBE!
http://www.aporrea.org/imagenes/2012/08 ... gentin.jpg

Borges was so esxceedingly well-read, i would not be surprised at all if he based some of Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius on flash-in-the-pan projects like Ixessoire.
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #88: Ancient Greek)

Post by atman »

Here are many many more Mafalda quotes for your enjoyment Image:
http://es.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mafalda

I've looked up Apolema and Ixessoire, and I honestly wonder why would-be learners of Ixessoire have to learn the Greek alphabet first. ιτ'ς α τοταλλι αννεσεσσαρι διφφικυλτι!

Even my Atlantean, the language of a fictional nation and utterly unusable as an auxlang, is written with the Latin alphabet alone (of course the Greek founders of Atlantis used the (Ionic) Greek alphabet, which was gradually replaced by the Latin one around 1400-1500 AD).

As you're an experienced conlanger, and certainly know Greek better than me, could you give me any suggestions (especially plausible sound changes from :grc:) to improve the phonology of Atlantika glosa? Do you like its morphosyntax/overall feel (see the sample above)?
Երկնէր երկին, երկնէր երկիր, երկնէր և ծովն ծիրանի.
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #89: Polysynthesis)

Post by Ollock »

We have a new episode out: Conlangery #89: Polysynthesis

I also noticed that I forgot to share the last short with the forums, so here's the link to that: Conlangery Shorts #07: When do you insert your infix?. You'll also notice that I've separated the shorts out from the full episodes in the first-post list, to make it easier to look through.
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #89: Polysynthesis)

Post by Prinsessa »

Ollock wrote:We have a new episode out: Conlangery #89: Polysynthesis
Finally! Great episode. Been waiting for this subject.

As for Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch (yes, I know it by heart :D), it is, as far as I know, neither polysynthesis nor a proper giant compound. It's just a tourism stunt pulled by the inhabitants of the village, in order to earn the title of one of the longest places names in the world - in actual Welsh, this is just a sentence where the words should be separate ('Llan Fair pwll gwyn gyll go ger y chwyrn drobwll Llan Tysilio go gogoch' or something like that) that were just written together ungrammatically for this purpose.

Likeifiwoulddecidejusttowritethisbigsentenceinenglishwithoutanyspacessoithasnoactuallinguisticdefence.
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #89: Polysynthesis)

Post by decem »

Skógvur wrote:Likeifiwoulddecidejusttowritethisbigsentenceinenglishwithoutanyspacessoithasnoactuallinguisticdefence.
Whatareyoutalkingaboutthatmustbethelongestwordintheworld
[tick] : :gbr: | [:D] : :deu: :fra: | [:S] : :esp: :ita: :bra: | conlang sxarihe
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: SHORTS #08: Pahran gramat

Post by Ollock »

Apparently I've been severely neglecting this thread, so I'm going to update all at once the past three shorts. I'd also like to announce that I've talked to Mike and William and long-form episodes will be returning soon (our first recording is scheduled for next week).

Conlangery SHORTS #09: Phrasebook: Hello and Goodbye
Conlangery SHORTS #10: Phrasebook: How do you say …?
Conlangery SHORTS #11: Phrasebook: What time is it?
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: SHORTS #08: Pahran gramat

Post by Ànradh »

Awesome. :)
Sin ar Pàrras agus nì sinne mar a thogras sinn. Choisinn sinn e agus ’s urrainn dhuinn ga loisgeadh.
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: SHORTS #08: Pahran gramat

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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: SHORTS #91: Srínawésin)

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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #92: Sapir-Worf)

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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #92: Sapir-Worf)

Post by Khemehekis »

Uh, you left the aitch out of "Whorf" everywhere on that episode's page.
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Re: Conlangery Podcast (Latest Ep: #92: Sapir-Worf)

Post by Ollock »

Khemehekis wrote:
Uh, you left the aitch out of "Whorf" everywhere on that episode's page.
My apologies, you are the first to correct me on this. I have been watching a good deal of Star Trek recently.

(Also, why did you choose to spell out "aitch" -- I would have got it slightly faster if you had used <h> or "h".)
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