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 Post subject: Re: Changtagx
PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr 2012, 21:38 
roman
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Omzinesý wrote:
That's a nice lang, phonology is silly but it's meant to be.
Expressing grammatical meanings by tones is a nice idea I have been planning to employ, too.
Have yoy got acquainted with Nilo-Saharan languages. I've heared they are crazy.


The only thing i know about them is that they're crazy. [:D]

Omzinesý wrote:
- How is your vowel allophony? Are /r/ and /v/ allophones of the closed vowel?
Does /a/ have any allophony?


Yes, [ɹ] & [β] are allophones of /ɰ/ (Or /ɯ/, if you prefer). /ɑ/ has no allophony.

Omzinesý wrote:
- You said you are scrapping the tone system, but I still ask about your 0.1 version: how is the stress realised? Normally it is the tone that makes a syllable stressed. Your stress system is by the way very Finnish-y (my all langs have that).


The stress is realised as a dynamic accent. And yes, it's very finnish-y, i tried to avoid phonemic stress to keep the phonology ridiculously minimal, and first syllable just seems a good "default" position for the stress.

Omzinesý wrote:
-The plural marker was a line above something. What does it represent?


Lengthening of the syllable nucleus.

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 Post subject: Re: Changtagx
PostPosted: Fri 13 Apr 2012, 02:37 
fire
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Thanks, CrazyEttin.

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 Post subject: Re: Changtagxmta
PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 12:15 
roman
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And Version 1 is finally here!

Why Version 1 instead of Version 0.2, you might ask.
Simple. I change major version number every time i have to scrap the whole vocabulary because of changes in the language.

...And yes, i will complete the parts about indefinite pronouns and subordinate clauses when i'm not so busy studying (=Trying to avoid studying).

Constructive criticism is very welcome.

Edit: Yes, there's a typo on the first example sentence of the Verbs and Syntax chapter: It should be x-X́ng-a instead of x-X̄xng-a.

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 Post subject: Re: Changtagxmta
PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 15:32 
fire
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What does
Quote:
Root morphemes contain the only true free morphemes of the language, the conjunctions.
mean?
Does this mean all conjunctions are roots, or does it mean all roots are conjunctions?


What does
Quote:
Ablative is also used as instrumental, and it's never used on nouns. It's marked with adding coda -m to the noun suffix.
Lative, also used for indirect objects, is also never used on nouns. It's marked with adding coda -ng to the noun suffix.
mean?
How can something that's never marked on nouns, be marked by adding something to the noun suffix?

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 Post subject: Re: Changtagxmta
PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 19:34 
roman
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eldin raigmore wrote:
What does
Quote:
Root morphemes contain the only true free morphemes of the language, the conjunctions.
mean?
Does this mean all conjunctions are roots, or does it mean all roots are conjunctions?


Group "Root morphemes" contains the group "Free morphemes" which is identical to the group "Conjunctions".

eldin raigmore wrote:
What does
Quote:
Ablative is also used as instrumental, and it's never used on nouns. It's marked with adding coda -m to the noun suffix.
Lative, also used for indirect objects, is also never used on nouns. It's marked with adding coda -ng to the noun suffix.
mean?
How can something that's never marked on nouns, be marked by adding something to the noun suffix?


What i meant with that is that since adverbs and adjectives are fully interchangeable, and word in absolutive, when used as modifiers, can modify both nouns (As genitive) and verbs (As locative), i wanted to say that ablative and lative can only modify verbs, and using them to modify nouns would just be ungrammatical. Now that you pointed it out, i see that i worded that very poorly in the pdf, sorry.

Edit: Eg. «Chángtagxmta Antrgxntam» (Speech from Anticosti Island) would make no sense, but both «Chángtagxmta Antrgxnta» (Speech of Anticosti Island) and «Thrnta xGángtagx Antrgxntam» (I speak from Anticosti Island) are grammatically correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Changtagxmta
PostPosted: Wed 18 Apr 2012, 20:25 
mayan
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Where is the phone(me) inventary table?
How does your assimilating "vowel" assimilate to the glottal stop?

Why do you say your syllabic nucleus is not a vowel (the not vowel one)?
ɰ, ɯ are the same sound. It's just about the position in the syllable. ɯ is a coda, and ɰ is an onset. I can be wrong.


Because you are making an odd phonology, I can't help suggesting the bilarial trill /ʙ/ (the horse stopping sound). It could be allophonic variation too, with [r] maybe.


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 Post subject: Re: Changtagxmta
PostPosted: Thu 19 Apr 2012, 08:01 
roman
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Omzinesý wrote:
Where is the phone(me) inventary table?
How does your assimilating "vowel" assimilate to the glottal stop?


There isn't a phoneme inventory table, everything is in the text of the phonology chapter.
The syllabic consonant doesn't assimilate to the glottal stop, it's just [ʔɰ]. It's the only exception to that rule.

Omzinesý wrote:
Why do you say your syllabic nucleus is not a vowel (the not vowel one)?
ɰ, ɯ are the same sound. It's just about the position in the syllable. ɯ is a coda, and ɰ is an onset. I can be wrong.


I know, but since every other allophone of that phoneme is written in IPA with a "consonant letter", i thought it would look better if i used ɰ.

Omzinesý wrote:
Because you are making an odd phonology, I can't help suggesting the bilarial trill /ʙ/ (the horse stopping sound). It could be allophonic variation too, with [r] maybe.


No, there's enough allophony as it is. [:D]
Also, for some weird reason trill consonants are extremely hard for me to pronounce, and i like to be able to pronounce my conlangs.

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 Post subject: Re: Changtagxmta
PostPosted: Thu 19 Apr 2012, 10:24 
MVP
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Omzinesý wrote:

Why do you say your syllabic nucleus is not a vowel (the not vowel one)?
ɰ, ɯ are the same sound. It's just about the position in the syllable. ɯ is a coda, and ɰ is an onset. I can be wrong.


You *can* be wrong, but not necessarily. According to the well-known online encyclopaedia, it may depend on the language:

Quote:
Semivowels, by definition, contrast with vowels by being non-syllabic. In addition, they are usually shorter than vowels.[2] In languages as diverse as Amharic, Yoruba, and Zuni, semivowels are produced with a narrower constriction in the vocal tract than their corresponding vowels.[5] Nevertheless, semivowels may be phonemically equivalent with vowels.

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 Post subject: Re: Changtagxmta
PostPosted: Wed 23 May 2012, 00:07 
roman
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Made a script for Chángtagxmta:

Example
Font

The script is based on latin alphabet, modified to better suit carving on stone and wood, the primary writing media of the Antregabua, and it's used only very rarely when writing on paper or other media.

And yes, i consider this a form of latin alphabet. If blackletter counts as latin, then this one definitely counts too.

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 Post subject: Re: Changtagx
PostPosted: Wed 23 May 2012, 07:42 
darkness
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CrazyEttin wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:
That's a nice lang, phonology is silly but it's meant to be.
Expressing grammatical meanings by tones is a nice idea I have been planning to employ, too.
Have yoy got acquainted with Nilo-Saharan languages. I've heared they are crazy.

The only thing i know about them is that they're crazy. [:D]
What about a grammar of one?


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 Post subject: Re: Changtagx
PostPosted: Wed 23 May 2012, 10:56 
mayan
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Xaro wrote:
CrazyEttin wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:
That's a nice lang, phonology is silly but it's meant to be.
Expressing grammatical meanings by tones is a nice idea I have been planning to employ, too.
Have yoy got acquainted with Nilo-Saharan languages. I've heared they are crazy.

The only thing i know about them is that they're crazy. [:D]
What about a grammar of one?


Have to look!
I have a grammar of Dholuo. But it doesn't seem very interesting actually. Maybe that's better.


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 Post subject: Re: Antregabua
PostPosted: Mon 09 Jul 2012, 11:08 
roman
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Version 2 is here!

I also updated the script and the font.

This is also the last change of name of the language. I changed it to Antregabua, since that's the english ethnonym of the speakers of the lang, and english likes to use ethnonyms for languages.

What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Antregabua
PostPosted: Mon 09 Jul 2012, 13:29 
darkness
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I like it, but I think that the descriptions should be just longer. The conlang is very interesting and I'd like to see a little longer explanations.

BTW, i have a phoneme inventory which is smaller than that of Antregabua. It is /p t a ɔ/. :mrgreen:

Also, what font did you use for the grammar? I think it's Charis SIL, but it just looks different than in MS Word on my computer.


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 Post subject: Re: Antregabua
PostPosted: Mon 09 Jul 2012, 16:48 
roman
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2-4 wrote:
I like it, but I think that the descriptions should be just longer. The conlang is very interesting and I'd like to see a little longer explanations.


I don't really know how to write any longer descriptions, since it all makes sense to me. What would you like me to write more about?

Also there's apparently not enough example sentences, i'll be adding more of them too.

2-4 wrote:
BTW, i have a phoneme inventory which is smaller than that of Antregabua. It is /p t a ɔ/. :mrgreen:


[:O]

2-4 wrote:
Also, what font did you use for the grammar? I think it's Charis SIL, but it just looks different than in MS Word on my computer.


You guessed correctly, it's Charis SIL (I love that font). And, of course, my own font for the Antregabua script. [:D]

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 Post subject: Re: Antregabua
PostPosted: Mon 09 Jul 2012, 18:24 
darkness
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CrazyEttin wrote:
2-4 wrote:
I like it, but I think that the descriptions should be just longer. The conlang is very interesting and I'd like to see a little longer explanations.


I don't really know how to write any longer descriptions, since it all makes sense to me. What would you like me to write more about?

I'd like descriptions of irregularities and covering complement clauses in the syntax section (if they are permitted, of course).

CrazyEttin wrote:
2-4 wrote:
BTW, i have a phoneme inventory which is smaller than that of Antregabua. It is /p t a ɔ/. :mrgreen:

[:O]

:mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Antregabua
PostPosted: Mon 09 Jul 2012, 18:43 
roman
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2-4 wrote:
CrazyEttin wrote:
2-4 wrote:
I like it, but I think that the descriptions should be just longer. The conlang is very interesting and I'd like to see a little longer explanations.


I don't really know how to write any longer descriptions, since it all makes sense to me. What would you like me to write more about?

I'd like descriptions of irregularities and covering complement clauses in the syntax section (if they are permitted, of course)


There aren't really that many exceptions. There were of course exceptions in Proto-Antregabua, but the simplification of the phonology has erased nearly all of them, and the few of them that remain are vocabulary-dependent (Eg. with verb for going on a trading or war expedition (Yes i copied the concept from vikings) the destination is not in lative but in accusative).

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 Post subject: Re: Antregabua
PostPosted: Mon 09 Jul 2012, 21:08 
mayan
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What is new compared to the later paper, or is that just a better description?


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 Post subject: Re: Antregabua
PostPosted: Mon 09 Jul 2012, 21:30 
roman
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Omzinesý wrote:
What is new compared to the later paper, or is that just a better description?


It's better description (At least i hope it is), and there are some changes. I got rid of the tone completely and changed the rules for clitics, which meant loss of tense conjugation (I could probably add it some other way, but i like it the way it is now). I also changed some stuff about the usage of oblique cases, especially what cases are used for possession. The indefinite pronouns are also an open word class in this version.

And then there's the script and the oddities of the literary standard of the language.

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 Post subject: Re: Antregabua
PostPosted: Mon 09 Jul 2012, 21:36 
mayan
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CrazyEttin wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:
What is new compared to the later paper, or is that just a better description?


It's better description (At least i hope it is), and there are some changes. I got rid of the tone completely and changed the rules for clitics, which meant loss of tense conjugation (I could probably add it some other way, but i like it the way it is now). I also changed some stuff about the usage of oblique cases, especially what cases are used for possession. The indefinite pronouns are also an open word class in this version.

And then there's the script and the oddities of the literary standard of the language.

Fine


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 Post subject: Re: Antregabua
PostPosted: Fri 13 Jul 2012, 20:37 
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I don't think I'll ever be able to read the romanisation fluently with the proper pronunciation, but I do love this language so much<3 I love how you've put so much effort into something that pretty much started out as a joke/challenge and actually made it interesting and, at least to me, æsthetically pleasing.

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