New CBB

While biking to deliver freaking tax papers an idea struck me so hard I almost fell off the bike.

Fusion of two pronouns.

For example instead of saying "I hit him" one would say "Iim hit", where "Iim" represent both "I" and "him" at the same time.

I was wondering if anyone else have thought of this, if its feasable in a natural language and such.

Feel free to discuss/come with oppinions =)

_________________
Visit the growing Conlang Wiki!

Do you mean like in spoken French ?



Many languages must do something similar.

_________________
grammaire du jrawélien - textes - lexique - miscellanées

Hungarian has particular fused suffix for 1>2:
szeretek - I love
szeretlek - I love you

_________________
(native)
(learning)

--
Języki sztuczne i lingwistyka, po polsku.

Cervenian has these kinds of double pronouns.

Klingon has verbal prefixes which encode both subject and object.

_________________
КЕРВЕНСКИЙ

I wouldn't call those that mostly because they can be analyzed seperately while I speak of where "i+Him" has nothign in common with "She+him", atleast anymore.



No, those are individual prefixes for it, they are still seperate in meaning then.


Care to show what each part mean?

_________________
Visit the growing Conlang Wiki!

I had thought of this in one of my conlangs too. I decided verbs would not decline for person, so I fused pronouns in transitive sentences to make them shorter and more compact, which I like.

_________________
そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。

I was thinking of doing the same, it would add to the already existing massive pronoun table but its an interesting concept to add.

_________________
Visit the growing Conlang Wiki!

Would you count two fused pronouns as one pronoun, or would you count it as two?

_________________
そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。

Once genders, clusivity, oblique arguments and so on are factored in, such a language could get quite compact...

_________________
grammaire du jrawélien - textes - lexique - miscellanées

I would count it as a single pronoun because its impossible ti divide it

_________________
Visit the growing Conlang Wiki!

If you're just gonna assume I'm wrong, why ask the question to begin with?

http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Klingon_prefixes

_________________
КЕРВЕНСКИЙ

I think some polysynthetic languages have combined subject-object affixes, so that would not be too unnatural.

Perhaps you could also have some pre-verbal particle, that's inflected for subject and object.


I would count it as a single pronoun because its impossible ti divide it[/quote]

Are we talking about 'pure' polyexponence, or about 'regular' fusion? A subject and an object pronoun could be fused, without forming one single combined polyexponetial subject-object pronoun.

_________________
constructedlanguages.net

Are we talking about 'pure' polyexponence, or about 'regular' fusion? A subject and an object pronoun could be fused, without forming one single combined polyexponetial subject-object pronoun.[/quote]
What does polyexponence mean?

_________________
そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。

I am familiar with that, they are still not pronouns but affixes.



http://wals.info/chapter/21

I say pure polyexponence then if I understand it correctly

The word for "I-him" has nothing in common (or not analyticly so) with "I-you" and "She-him"

_________________
Visit the growing Conlang Wiki!

Exactly. As does Kala.

When you have one phoneme, encoding two or more different things, can't in any way be divided in two or more parts, corresponding to the different meanings.

There could be more moderate forms of fusion. When two morphemes are stuck together, it might trigger sound changes that makes it impossible to tell at which segment one morpheme ends and the other starts. But it could still make sense to analyse it as two different morphemes.

_________________
constructedlanguages.net

True, but that's not what you objected to in your post.

_________________
КЕРВЕНСКИЙ

it's what I meant, though I might have put it into word in a poor manner. Bad on my part

_________________
Visit the growing Conlang Wiki!

In that case, I think my pronouns were not polyexponential. You could tell from looking at them that they were derived from two different pronouns that started out as separate, but later fused.

_________________
そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。

My conlang Cednitit technically doesn't have pronouns, but it does have prefixes on the verb which are fusional agreement affixes that indicate the person and number of subject and object.

The list does get quite large, especially when there are two sets, one for nonpast and one for past tense, but I think that's fine.

_________________
力在公蝦米????

flags