Yiingim (’iiŋìm) (NP: Comparatives)

A forum for all topics related to constructed languages
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Yiingim (’iiŋìm) (NP: Comparatives)

Post by Dezinaa » Thu 16 Oct 2014, 01:42

I'm calling it an "octoberlang" because I'm trying not to scrap it until at least November 1. This thread will be kind of a scratchpad, because the lang isn't finished, and things are likely to change in the future.

Table of Contents/index/navigation

Word Order
Nouns
Script
Verbs
Other Orthography
Demonstratives and Pronouns
Lexicon

Phonology

The phonemic inventory of ’iiƞìm is very small, consisting of seven consonants and three vowels.

/p t k ʔ/ <p t k ’>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ŋ>
/i u a/ <i u a>

It also has three tones: high, mid, and low. High tone is marked with an acute accent, low tone is marked with a grave accent, and mid tone is unmarked.
Syllable structure is (C)V(C). Any consonant can begin or end a syllable. If /ʔ/ is in the coda, another /ʔ/ cannot be the onset of the following syllable.

Allophony

Because of having such a small number of phonemes, ’iiƞìm has very noticable allophony.

Between vowels, /p t k/ become [β ɾ ɣ].
After a nasal, /p t k/ become .
After a pause, /m n ŋ/ become .
Next to /i/ in the same syllable, /k ŋ/ become [c ɲ]. Between two vowels, if the second one is /i/, /k/ becomes [ʝ]
Vowels are nasalized before nasals.
In closed syllables, /i u a/ become [ɪ ʊ ɐ]
Next to /i/, /a/ becomes [e].
Next to /u/, /a/ becomes [o].
If two non-identical high vowels are in the same syllable, the first one becomes a semivowel.
Two identical vowels next to each other become a long vowel.
Two identical consonants next to each other become a geminated consonant.
When /i u/ become semivowels, their tone is moved onto the other vowel in the same syllable. For example, ƞáánaù /ŋa˥.a˥.na˧.u˩/ is really pronounced [gãː˥.now˧˩].

[hr][/hr]

That's it for now, stay tuned, I guess. [:)]
Last edited by Dezinaa on Fri 06 Feb 2015, 15:39, edited 5 times in total.
User avatar
DesEsseintes
cleardarkness
cleardarkness
Posts: 4384
Joined: Sun 31 Mar 2013, 12:16

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by DesEsseintes » Thu 16 Oct 2014, 04:12

I like the tiny inventory and the allophony! [:)]

Do nasals assimilate in PoA to a following stop?

What happens to /nki/? [nɟi]? [ŋɟi]? [ɲɟi]?
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Dezinaa » Thu 16 Oct 2014, 14:36

DesEsseintes wrote:I like the tiny inventory and the allophony! [:)]
Thanks!
DesEsseintes wrote:Do nasals assimilate in PoA to a following stop?
Nope.
DesEsseintes wrote:What happens to /nki/? [nɟi]? [ŋɟi]? [ɲɟi]?
It would be [nɟi].
Keenir
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2435
Joined: Tue 22 May 2012, 02:05

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Keenir » Fri 17 Oct 2014, 04:04

so far, so good.
Dezinaa wrote:I'm calling it an "octoberlang" because I'm trying not to scrap it until at least November 1. This thread will be kind of a scratchpad, because the lang isn't finished, and things are likely to change in the future.

It also has three tones: high, mid, and low. High tone is marked with an acute accent, low tone is marked with a grave accent, and mid tone is unmarked.
Syllable structure is (C)V(C). Any consonant can begin or end a syllable. If /ʔ/ is in the coda, another /ʔ/ cannot be the onset of the following syllable.
so, is the onset-ʔ replaced by something else, or does its whole syllable (or word) have to be substituted by something else? (a kenning?)
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Dezinaa » Fri 17 Oct 2014, 15:10

Keenir wrote:so far, so good.
Thanks!
Keenir wrote:
Dezinaa wrote:I'm calling it an "octoberlang" because I'm trying not to scrap it until at least November 1. This thread will be kind of a scratchpad, because the lang isn't finished, and things are likely to change in the future.

It also has three tones: high, mid, and low. High tone is marked with an acute accent, low tone is marked with a grave accent, and mid tone is unmarked.
Syllable structure is (C)V(C). Any consonant can begin or end a syllable. If /ʔ/ is in the coda, another /ʔ/ cannot be the onset of the following syllable.
so, is the onset-ʔ replaced by something else, or does its whole syllable (or word) have to be substituted by something else? (a kenning?)
The first /ʔ/ is removed, making it an open syllable.

By the way, I'm hesitant to post about grammar yet, because it's kind of boring. I'm looking (mainly on Wikipedia) for more interesting ways of doing things.
misora
hieroglyphic
hieroglyphic
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu 16 Oct 2014, 15:08

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by misora » Fri 17 Oct 2014, 15:30

So, I have a question on pronunciation of the allophones.

How do you pronounce ɣ, I'm still new to IPA.
Also the small inventory reminds me of the beauty you can find in similar languages like Hawaiian.

Can't wait to learn more about the grammar.
Mugitus
hieroglyphic
hieroglyphic
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat 26 Apr 2014, 20:53
Location: Ohio

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Mugitus » Fri 17 Oct 2014, 15:50

misora wrote: How do you pronounce ɣ, I'm still new to IPA.
/ɣ/ is the symbol for a voiced velar fricative. So basically you place the back of your tongue on your soft palate "velum" where /k/ and /g/ are make it a fricative consonant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_velar_fricative [:)]
Nimitzitta!
shimobaatar
darkness
darkness
Posts: 8716
Joined: Fri 12 Jul 2013, 22:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by shimobaatar » Sat 18 Oct 2014, 01:01

Basically what other people have been saying: I like everything so far, especially the allophony. I can't wait to see more!
Keenir
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2435
Joined: Tue 22 May 2012, 02:05

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Keenir » Sat 18 Oct 2014, 08:52

Dezinaa wrote:By the way, I'm hesitant to post about grammar yet, because it's kind of boring. I'm looking (mainly on Wikipedia) for more interesting ways of doing things.
Boring? a tonal language with this number of consonants...I can't picture it being boring. {seriously - I can believe that some parts might be more average than the highly distinctive opening premise...but that's not the same as boring, imho)


(heck, you helped inspire my own Octoberlang, if I may say so, and if it lasts that long)
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Dezinaa » Sun 19 Oct 2014, 22:24

shimobaatar wrote:Basically what other people have been saying: I like everything so far, especially the allophony. I can't wait to see more!
Thanks!
Keenir wrote:
Dezinaa wrote:By the way, I'm hesitant to post about grammar yet, because it's kind of boring. I'm looking (mainly on Wikipedia) for more interesting ways of doing things.
Boring? a tonal language with this number of consonants...I can't picture it being boring. {seriously - I can believe that some parts might be more average than the highly distinctive opening premise...but that's not the same as boring, imho)


(heck, you helped inspire my own Octoberlang, if I may say so, and if it lasts that long)
Thanks! And good luck with your octoberlang. Also, I am slowly coming up with grammar ideas, so I'll try to make the next post in the next few days.
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Dezinaa » Mon 27 Oct 2014, 01:15

About time for the next post. It's only been 1 1/2 weeks since the first one.

Word Order

The basic word order of ’iiŋìm is agent-patient-verb-oblique (SOV). Technically, it's ergative-absolutive-verb-oblique, since it is an erg-abs conlang.

To demonstrate, here is a sentence with one argument:

Màppá.
màp-pá
sleep-1SG.ABS

I sleep.
Edit: This would now be:
Àn màp.
1SG.ABS sleep
Here is a sentence with two arguments:

Paànmúim ƞá’ka uiìkpi’a’ manàpàì.
paànmú-im ƞá’ka uiìkpi’-a’ manàp-àì
house-ERG angry cupcake-ABS throw-3SG.ERG

The angry house throws a cupcake.
Edit: This would now be:
Paànmúim ŋá’ka uiìkpi’ manàpàì.
paànmú-im ŋá’ka uiìkpi’ manàp-àì.
house-ERG angry cupcake.ABS throw-3SG.ERG
As you can see, the verb is only marked for the agent, even though it is an erg-abs language.

Coming up next: Nouns!
Last edited by Dezinaa on Mon 29 Dec 2014, 20:18, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Dezinaa » Thu 06 Nov 2014, 21:21

Even though October is over, I didn't want to get rid of this lang.

Nouns

There are five cases in ’iiƞìm: absolutive, ergative, genitive, dative, and locative. Ergative and dative use suffixes, and genitive and locative use postpositional clitics. Absolutive is unmarked.

Here is the declension of nakpú, 'whale'.

Code: Select all

ABS  nakpú
ERG  nakpú-im
GEN  nakpú ___=nu
DAT  nakpú-a’
LOC  nakpú=’ai
Notice that for the genitive case, the possessor is not what is marked. For example, nakpú paànmú=nu means "the whale's house", not "the house's whale".

Nouns do not have number. However, as long as whatever would normally have number is in the ergative case, the verb would get rid of ambiguity.

Also, -a’ used to be used for ABS, but now ABS is unmarked and -a’ is used for DAT.

Next: Verbs, the best part!
shimobaatar
darkness
darkness
Posts: 8716
Joined: Fri 12 Jul 2013, 22:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by shimobaatar » Thu 06 Nov 2014, 23:30

Dezinaa wrote:nakpú paànmú=nu means "the whale's house"
This is probably a dumb question, but the = isn't in the regular orthography, is it? I assume it's just there for the example to tell us that nu is a clitic.
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Dezinaa » Fri 07 Nov 2014, 00:00

shimobaatar wrote:
Dezinaa wrote:nakpú paànmú=nu means "the whale's house"
This is probably a dumb question, but the = isn't in the regular orthography, is it? I assume it's just there for the example to tell us that nu is a clitic.
Not a dumb question, but yes. It's only for the example.
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Dezinaa » Fri 07 Nov 2014, 16:11

I said the next post would be about verbs, but I made it about the script instead.

Script

The script is somewhat featural. I think it might be an abugida, or a syllabic alphabet. Each character represents one phonemic syllable. The writing direction is left to right and top to bottom.

Syllable blocks can be separated into three parts. The top is for optional consonant onsets. The middle is for vowels, and the bottom for optional coda consonants. High tone is marked with a dot above the character, and low tone with a dot below.

These are the basic "letters" of the script:

Image

They represent the phonemes in this order:

/m n ŋ/
/p t k ʔ/
/i a u/

The script has one punctuation mark, which looks like a dotless i <ı> or an iota <ι>. It is used to separate words. To of them in a row can be used for a pause in speech, such as at the end of a sentance.

Complete words do not have to be on a single line. They can be separated onto the next line. When affixes are placed on words, the root word is not written differently, even if the affix changes the syllable structure of the word.

Here is a short example text:

Image

<i,nam.ti.am,,ạn,tu̇.am,,i,ạn.ma.am,,nạ.ȧ,tu̇.iƞ.mi,,>
Í namtíam. Àn túam. Í ànmaam. Nàá túíƞmí?
[ĩ˥ nɐ̃mdjẽm˥˧ | ɐ̃n˩ dwõm˥˧ | jẽn˥˩mãːm | daː˩˥ ɾwɪ̃ŋ˥mi˥]
2SG.ABS greet-1SG.ERG | 1SG.ABS be-1SG.ERG | 2SG.ABS see-1SG.ERG | who be-2SG.ERG
Hello. I am me. I see you. Who are you?
Last edited by Dezinaa on Tue 18 Nov 2014, 21:03, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
DesEsseintes
cleardarkness
cleardarkness
Posts: 4384
Joined: Sun 31 Mar 2013, 12:16

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by DesEsseintes » Fri 07 Nov 2014, 17:27

I just read the OP again, and I like ’iiƞìm a lot. [<3]

I'm looking forward to those verbs you promised. [:)]
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Dezinaa » Fri 07 Nov 2014, 18:42

DesEsseintes wrote:I just read the OP again, and I like ’iiƞìm a lot. [<3]

I'm looking forward to those verbs you promised. [:)]
Thank you. [:)]
Incorruptus
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 21:31

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Incorruptus » Sat 08 Nov 2014, 21:57

Perhaps a still far-off ancestor of that all nasal articulated conlang I saw a while back. [}:D]

Majorly cool, to say the least, though.
User avatar
Dezinaa
roman
roman
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun 13 Oct 2013, 19:33
Location: tunta, àn paànmúnu’ai

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Dezinaa » Sat 08 Nov 2014, 23:42

Incorruptus wrote:Perhaps a still far-off ancestor of that all nasal articulated conlang I saw a while back. [}:D]

Majorly cool, to say the least, though.
Thank you. And maybe you are referring to Mhmmz? Those would be some interesting sound changes.
Incorruptus
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 21:31

Re: ’iiƞìm (Dezinaa's octoberlang)

Post by Incorruptus » Sat 08 Nov 2014, 23:53

Dezinaa wrote:
Incorruptus wrote:Perhaps a still far-off ancestor of that all nasal articulated conlang I saw a while back. [}:D]

Majorly cool, to say the least, though.
Thank you. And maybe you are referring to Mhmmz? Those would be some interesting sound changes.
Well, over TIME. I'm intrigued. Hop to it! [:P]
Post Reply