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Ook

Post by Creyeditor » Sat 14 Mar 2015, 02:35

I think this is the right moment to introduce this tribute conlang ...

Ook
This is a fan made conlang spoken by the Librarian of the Discworld series. Because of the traditional romanization it is sometimes considered to be primitive, whereas it is really very elaborated. Unfortunately there are not that many full sentence examples given in the books. I would appreciate every example from the original series, that you can give me.

Phonology & Morphology
The phonology of Ook is very different from known languages. If one would try to analyze it in the traditional way, one would end up with ca. 25920 vowels, 11520 consonants and 597196800 possible syllables. All of them are traditionally romanized as either <ook> or <eek>.
That's why I am going to analyze the language as having two basemes, which are already fully specified syllables of the form VC and a limited set of supremes, which are features, that can be prefixed or suffixed to the basemes. These features can sometimes have one of multiple values. Here is a list of basemes and Supremes. Where no value is given, the feature is unary.

Basemes:
  • [uk]
  • [ik]
Supremes:
  • Supremes that can be suffixed and prefixed (A-Supremes)
    • Length: short, half-long, long, overlong
    • rounding: unrounded, compressed, protruded
    • nasalization:
    • horizontal: fronted, backed
    • vertical: lowered
  • Supremes that can only be prefixed (Pre-Supremes)
    • centralization:
    • state of glottis: voiceless, creaky voice, breathy voiced
    • centralization:
    • ATR:
    • dipthongization: diphthong, triphthong
    • tone: high, low, high falling, low falling, high rising, low rising, dipping, peaking
  • Supremes that can only be suffixed (Post-Supremes)
    • VOT: voiced, aspirated
    • airstream: ejective, implosive
    • double articulation: labial-velar, alveo-velar
    • palatalization:
    • velarization:
    • pharyngealizaton:
    • affricate:
Basemes and groups of supremes can carry meanings, e.g. the baseme [ik] carries the meaning NEG. I will call this meaning carrying units morphemes.
A potential word could look like this [ⁿu̯ⁿa̯˦˥g͡bʲˠˤːˑ]. <ook>. I am currently workig on a non-traditional romanization. This word could be analyzed in the following manner:
Prefixed Supremes: nasalization, length(short), diphthongization(dipthong), tone(high rising)
Baseme: [uk]
Postfixed Supremes: VOT(voiced), length(overlong), double articulation(labial-velar), palatalization, velarization, pharyngealization
There will probabely be some interaction between different supremes, but I haven't gotten to that yet.

Morphosyntax
The Morphosyntax of Ook is likely to be more morphology than syntax, since most SAE sentences are translatable into one word in Ook. However, words will always be monosyllabic.
Here is a list of features I definitely want to include:
  • Zero marked existential copulas
  • Interrogative markers
  • Discourse markers as inflectional categories
  • Object Incorporation
  • Polypersonal agreement
  • Evidentiality
Here is a glossed example, with traditional romanization only:
Ook
rainforest.INC.OBJ.see.INT.REC.PST.2SG.HON
"Did you see a rainforest around here a moment ago?"
Feel free to comment, ask and do as you weren't told.
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Re: Ook

Post by Khemehekis » Sat 14 Mar 2015, 06:39

I remember a conlang called Ook! (always spelt with the exclamation point at the end). It was a computer language designed for orangutans.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 55,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Ook

Post by DesEsseintes » Sat 14 Mar 2015, 09:50

I look forward to examples analysed in greater detail!

Off on my own tangent: óók is perfect as a Híí word, be it Hííenununóóoþa or Limestone. Thanks for that. [:)]
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Re: Ook

Post by Creyeditor » Sat 14 Mar 2015, 12:55

Non-traditional Romanization I
This romanization will only be used in the glosses, since it focusses on the basemes and surpremes.
The two basemes are written <uk> and <ik>. Here is a list of the romanization for the surpremes. Most of them are based on the form of IPA-diacrits.
Spoiler:
Supremes:
  • Supremes that can be suffixed and prefixed (A-Supremes)
    • Length: short<u>, half-long<Δ>, long <8>, overlong <∞>
    • rounding: unrounded <c>, compressed<β>, protruded <w>
    • nasalization: <n>
    • horizontal: fronted<t>, backed<k>
    • vertical: lowered <T>
  • Supremes that can only be prefixed (Pre-Supremes)
    • centralization:<x->
    • state of glottis: voiceless<o->, creaky voice<m->, breathy voiced <ɦ->
    • RTR:<Ⱶ->
    • dipthongization: diphthong<2->, triphthong<3->
    • tone: high<˥->, low<˩->, high falling<˥˧->, low falling<˧˩->, high rising<˧˥->, low rising<˩˧->, dipping<-˥˩˥>, peaking<˩˥˩>
  • Supremes that can only be suffixed (Post-Supremes)
    • VOT: voiced<-v>, aspirated<-h>
    • airstream: ejective<-'>, implosive<-ſ>
    • double articulation: labial-velar<-b>, alveo-velar<-d>
    • palatalization: <-j>
    • velarization: <-g>
    • pharyngealizaton: <-q>
    • affricate: <-s>
Morphology II
Some of the supremes will carry lexical meaning, others grammatical. A special set of supremes can carry the meaning of incorporated objects.
Lexical meanings are usually prefixed supremes, while incorporated objects are usually prefixed. Grammatical/functional morphemes can act be suffixed, prefixed or circumfixed.

Let's start with two simple sentences:

<Ook>
[ű̟ːk]~[ʉ́ːk]
/8-t-˥-uk/
//8t˥-uk//
banana-AFF
There's a banana.

Since bare nouns are takes as existential statements, we only have to focus on the lexical meaning of 'banana'. It consists of three features, with a non-zero value:
  • Length: long
    Horizontal: fronted
    Tone: high level
The baseme just carries the meaning non-negative or affirmative.
If we change the baseme, we negate the sentence.

<Eek>
[i̟̋ːk]~[íːk]
/8-t-˥-ik/
//8t˥-ik//
banana-NEG
There's no banana.

As already mentioned, incorporated objects are suffixed. To transfer we have to see, which features are also available as post-supremes. Length is available, fronting is also. Tone is not available, it is replaced by the feature airstream. Also notice, that the voicing of the consonant changes, because the default value of the prefix is carried to the suffix.


<Ook>
[uk̟̬ʼː]~[udʼː]~[ud̚͡tʼ]
/uk-8-t-v-'/
//uk-8tv'//
AFF-banana.INC.OBJ
He does something to the banana.

Since there is a transitive dummy zero copula for incorporated objects and an unmarked third person subject agreement, we can see a bare incorporated object. That's it for now. Please ask me for clarification [:D]

Khemehekis wrote:I remember a conlang called Ook! (always spelt with the exclamation point at the end). It was a computer language designed for orangutans.
Yep, I read about that, too. And I heard there are some programs to be found in the internet, which really use this language.
DesEsseintes wrote:I look forward to examples analysed in greater detail!

Off on my own tangent: óók is perfect as a Híí word, be it Hííenununóóoþa or Limestone. Thanks for that. [:)]
You're welcome [;)]
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Re: Ook

Post by Fanael » Sat 14 Mar 2015, 16:45

Creyeditor wrote:
Khemehekis wrote:I remember a conlang called Ook! (always spelt with the exclamation point at the end). It was a computer language designed for orangutans.
Yep, I read about that, too. And I heard there are some programs to be found in the internet, which really use this language.
There aren't. Ook! is literally brainfuck with different syntax, pretty much all interesting programs are written in brainfuck itself. I mean, interesting as much as brainfuck programs can be, it is a Turing tarpit after all.
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Re: Ook

Post by k1234567890y » Sat 14 Mar 2015, 18:15

it must be a painstaking process for human linguistics to record and research this language.
Click here and here to know more about me.

夢見るオンナノコ(Dreaming girls)
だれでもプリンセス(All of them are princesses)
恋するオンナノコ(Girls in love)
ホンキ!ムテキ!カンペキ!(Serious! Invincible! Perfect!)
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Re: Ook

Post by Creyeditor » Sat 21 Mar 2015, 00:28

Morphosyntax III
So, we analyze our first "real" sentence:

<Ook>
[u̜̤̠̽͡a̤̜̠̽͡ṳ̜̠̽˦˥k̟̬ʼː]~[ɯ̯́ɑ̤̽᷄ɯ̯̋dʼː]~[ɯ̯́ɜ̤᷄ɯ̯̋d̚͡tʼ]
/x-c-k-ɦ-3-˧˥-uk-8-t-v-'/
//x-ckɦ3˧˥-uk-8tv'//
1SG.SBJ-want-AFF-banana.INC.OBJ
I want a banana.

The first person subject is indicated by the pre-supreme that causes centralization of the first vowel.
The lexical unit is also prefixed. want consists of:
  • Unrounding of the vowel <c>
  • backing of the vowel <k>
  • breathy voice of the vowel <ɦ>
  • Triphthongization<3>
  • a high rising tone
The incorporated object is the same, that we already covered.

Sorry for the short post [:S]

Please tell me, what you want to know more about [;)]

k1234567890y wrote:it must be a painstaking process for human linguistics to record and research this language.
That's right [:D]
Fanael wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:
Khemehekis wrote:I remember a conlang called Ook! (always spelt with the exclamation point at the end). It was a computer language designed for orangutans.
Yep, I read about that, too. And I heard there are some programs to be found in the internet, which really use this language.
There aren't. Ook! is literally brainfuck with different syntax, pretty much all interesting programs are written in brainfuck itself. I mean, interesting as much as brainfuck programs can be, it is a Turing tarpit after all.
Okay, so maybe I heard something wrong [;)]
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Re: Ook

Post by Creyeditor » Thu 09 Apr 2015, 22:05

Double Post
Object Focus
An object can be focussed, by de-incorporating it and moving it into a directly preverbal position.

To use the example we already have:

<Ook ook>
[ű̟ːk ǖ̜̠̤͡ä̜̠̤᷄͡ǘ̜̠̤k]~[ʉ́ːk ɯ̯̄ɜ̤᷄ɯ̯́k]
/8-t-˥-uk x-c-k-ɦ-3-˧˥-uk/
//8t˥-uk x-ckɦ3˧˥-uk//
banana-AFF 1SG.SBJ-want-AFF
It's the banana, I want.
(literally: 'There's a banana, I want it.')

Also notice that the object has acquired a definite and specific meaning.

We can also negate this sentence in three different ways.

<Ook eek>
[ű̟ːk ï̜̠̤̄ä̜̠̤᷄ḯ̜̠̤k]~[ʉ́ːk ɘ̯̄ɜ̤᷄ɘ̯́k]
/8-t-˥-uk x-c-k-ɦ-3-˧˥-ik/
//8t˥-uk x-ckɦ3˧˥-ik//
banana-AFF 1SG.SBJ-want-NEG
It's the banana, I don't want.
(literally: 'There's a banana, I don't want it.' Maybe the answer to a question like: 'You don't want any strawberries?')

<Eek ook>
[i̋ːk ǖ̜̠̤͡ä̜̠̤᷄͡ǘ̜̠̤k]~[i̋ːk ɯ̯̄ɜ̤᷄ɯ̯́k]
/8-t-˥-ik x-c-k-ɦ-3-˧˥-uk/
//8t˥-ik x-ckɦ3˧˥-uk//
banana-NEG 1SG.SBJ-want-AFF
It's not the banana, I want.
(literally: 'There's no banana, I want it.' Maybe the answer to a question like: 'You want a banana?')

<Eek Eek>
[i̋ːk ï̜̠̤̄ä̜̠̤᷄ḯ̜̠̤k]~[i̋ːk ɘ̯̄ɜ̤᷄ɘ̯́k]
/8-t-˥-ik x-c-k-ɦ-3-˧˥-ik/
//8t˥-ik x-ckɦ3˧˥-ik//
banana-NEG 1SG.SBJ-want-NEG
It's not the banana, I don't want.
(literally: 'There's no banana, I don't want it.' Maybe the answer to a question like:'You don't want a banana?')

Actually all of these examples may be ambigious in a given context. Topicalized elements are moved at the very beginning of the sentence, whereas focalized objects are moved in a directly preverbal position. In all of the above examples these positions are exactly the same.

So what do we learn from that? In Ook almost everything is either phonology or syntax. Thank you for your attention, comments are encouraged [:)]
Edit: Corrected some phonetic forms

Next post: Sentences with two (non-pronominal) noun phrases.
Last edited by Creyeditor on Tue 23 Feb 2016, 23:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ook

Post by Creyeditor » Sat 20 Feb 2016, 00:18

Epic Necro and Tripe Post:
Okay, so this will be about sentences with two full noun phrases. It's been a while since I posted something in this group, but I have an in-world explanation for it. Sentences with two full nouns phrases are actually really rare in the librarians dicourse. From the little I got from the books, there was nothing that really featured two full noun phrases. So here is one, a slight reformulation of an original quote.

<Ook ook>
A dominant male is in this group.

You might say, that's cheating, because there is no full verb, but actually the locative copula in Ook behaves like a full verb. Also I said two noun phrases, not two noun phrases and a full verb. So let's take a closer look at this sentence.

<Ook ook>
[ů̠ˑʷ˥˩˥k u˧˩k̪̆ʼʰʷ]~[u̥ˑk˥˩˥ u˧˩ɾ̊̆̆ʷ͡k̆̆ʼʰʷ]
/Δ-w-k-o-1-˥˩˥-uk ˧˩-uk-u-w-h-d-'/
//Δwko˥˩˥-uk ˧˩-uk-uwhd'//
dominant_male-AFF be_in-AFF-buffoonery
A dominant male is in this group.

We have the baseme //uk// twice, so the sentence is fully affirmative, no negation involved. We also have three supremes. They are listed below:
  • //Δwko1˥˩˥// [half long, protruded lips,backed,voiceless,dipping tone] a dominant male.
  • //˧˩//[falling tone] be in a certain place
  • //uwhd'//[short,protruded lips, aspirated,alveo-velar,ejective] buffoonery(group of orang utans) > incorporated form of //uwɦ3˥//
This first supreme is prefixed to the baseme, so it carries the lexical meaning. In isolation it would be interpreted as an existential construction, but in this context it is a subject (or rather a topic). The second baseme is just a falling tone, a very simple shape for a supreme, but that's because it is a very important word, that is almost grammaticalized. The incorporated object of that verb is suffixed to the baseme //Δwko1˥˩˥//, that means it is neither topicalized, nor focussed. Since agreement with a third singular argument has zero exponence, we can't see any.

As you can see, there is actually nothing new in this sentence, we already have seen all the structures, that are involved. One could also maybe analyse the sentence as actually being two sentences: There's a dominant male. He's in the group.. This kind of structure seems to be more common in discourse, even with a turn taking break, i.e.
  • A: There's a dominant male.
    B: Hmm
    A: He's in the group.
So, what can we conclude about the sentences with two full noun phrases. They are a very marked structure, maybe they don't even exist.

I feel like I already told you a lot about Ook. There are still some things left, but I don't really know what you would like to read. Here are a few suggestions, maybe you can tell me you'd like.
  • Glossed examples from the original books, with an explanation
  • Something about the different morphological categories
    • Discourse markers
    • Question and interrogatives
    • Evidentiality
    • Honorifics
  • more about syntax and pragmatic
  • more lexemes, lexicon and words
Last edited by Creyeditor on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 23:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ook

Post by Omzinesý » Sun 21 Feb 2016, 19:51

What an insane project! I like it. I may copy something in my alien lang that I thought about last summer.

I still wonder, if you encode so many features by the suprasegmentals, what features are preserved for encoding the lexemes. Are there many enough? Sorry, I read your description badly. How much derivational morphology do you have?
I didn't understand what prefixing and suffixing mean in the lang. Is there two vowels in every syllable ( the <o>s of Ook) and prefixes anffect the first one and suffixes the second?
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Re: Ook

Post by Creyeditor » Mon 22 Feb 2016, 00:07

Thank you for very much (especially for your questions) [:)]

Right now I have 6480 possible lexical supremes (lexemes consisting of suprasegmental features) 1024 possible functional supremes and 1620 supremes for incorporated objects. I think, that I will have to code some complex words as multi word expression, but for now I think that's enough possibilities. I have not yet thought a lot about derivational morphology and I still have to decide wether this would be a functional supreme or a stand-alone lexical supreme.

Suffixing and prefixing is really easy though. Prefixing affects the vowel and suffixing affects the consonant, because every syllable is of the form VC.
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Re: Ook

Post by Omzinesý » Mon 22 Feb 2016, 16:14

Creyeditor wrote:Thank you for very much (especially for your questions) [:)]

Right now I have 6480 possible lexical supremes (lexemes consisting of suprasegmental features) 1024 possible functional supremes and 1620 supremes for incorporated objects. I think, that I will have to code some complex words as multi word expression, but for now I think that's enough possibilities. I have not yet thought a lot about derivational morphology and I still have to decide wether this would be a functional supreme or a stand-alone lexical supreme.

Suffixing and prefixing is really easy though. Prefixing affects the vowel and suffixing affects the consonant, because every syllable is of the form VC.
Thank you. That clarifies much.
I guess the number of lexical supremes is enough. The language doesn't seem too natural so it's free of needs of redundancy and such. Semantics can differ too and be more compositional if needed.
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Re: Ook

Post by Ælfwine » Tue 12 Apr 2016, 14:05

Id like to see some recorded samples! [:P]
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Re: Ook

Post by Creyeditor » Tue 12 Apr 2016, 15:00

I will try to create some examples with praat maybe, if I have time [:D]
Edit: Here's an unglossed 10 second sample (00:21-00:31). Different dialect, but still.
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