Femsha
Femsha
Femsha (Femcı) is my oldest and dearest conlang, and it was also my first. It has gone through so many overhauls now that it is unrecognisable neither grammatically nor orthographically. I decided that I might as well share it with you guys and watch you tear it to shreds.
PHONOLOGY - LEBYITAWINI
Femsha consists of twenty-one consonants and ten vowels, combining to form a total of 31 phones. Stress is random, though it never falls on the mid-central vowel. Syllables end after the final vowel in a (C)CV combination or the second consonant in a (C)CVC(C) combination. When a word has a CVV(C) combination, the stress is always on the first vowel and the syllable ends at the second vowel.
(C)CV Example: muso /ˈmy.sʊ/ 'never'
(C)CVC(C) Example: yepresı /jɪp.ˈrɛ.sə/ 'person'
CVV(C) Example: suu /ˈsu.u/ 'both X and Y'
CONSONANTS - TOWIBARLINONI
<m n> /m n/
<p t k q b d g> /p t k q b d g/
<f s ç h v j c> /f s tʃ x v ʒ dʒ>
<r l w y> /r~ɾ l w j/
<r> is pronounced as /r/ when at the beginning of a syllable but as /ɾ/ when at the end of a syllable
Consonants can never be geminate, and even loanwords are edited to reflect this. Two different consonants bordering each-other is uncommon except in the case of syllable-final sonorants.
VOWELS - YELNİKYIPODONI
<a e i ı o u> /æ~ɑ ɛ~ɪ i ə ɔ~ʊ y~u/
Vowel harmony affects the spelling and phonetics of every word in Femsha. There are the wide vowels, <a>, <o>, and <u>; The slim vowels, <e> and <i>; And the neutral vowel, <ı>. Wide and slim vowels can never border, even when there is a consonant between them. Because of this, the neutral vowel must always come between the two to act as a bridge. In addition to affecting phonology, vowel harmony also affects affixes used on words.
Incorrect Example: dilup
Correct Example I: dilep
Correct Example II: dalup
Correct Example III: dilıyup
Stress is a major contributor to the way words are pronounced in Femsha. In the phonology guide, one will notice that there are two different pronunciations for <a>, <e>, <o>, and <u>. The first pronunciation occurs when the vowel is stressed, and is called the 'full sound'. The second pronunciation occurs when the vowel is not stressed, and is called the 'diminished sound'. Two of the vowels, <i> and <ı>, do not change in pronunciation regardless of the stress of the word. The latter is due to the fact that <ı> can never be stressed in Femsha.
Example I: dalap /ˈdæ.lɑp/
Example II: delep /ˈdɛ.lɪp/
Example III: dilip /ˈdi.lip/
Example IV: dolop /ˈdɔ.lʊp/
Example V: dulup /ˈdy.lup/
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I'll be posting a section on nouns and pronouns along their various affixes and special modifiers sometime in the future. Constructive criticism is encouraged.
PHONOLOGY - LEBYITAWINI
Femsha consists of twenty-one consonants and ten vowels, combining to form a total of 31 phones. Stress is random, though it never falls on the mid-central vowel. Syllables end after the final vowel in a (C)CV combination or the second consonant in a (C)CVC(C) combination. When a word has a CVV(C) combination, the stress is always on the first vowel and the syllable ends at the second vowel.
(C)CV Example: muso /ˈmy.sʊ/ 'never'
(C)CVC(C) Example: yepresı /jɪp.ˈrɛ.sə/ 'person'
CVV(C) Example: suu /ˈsu.u/ 'both X and Y'
CONSONANTS - TOWIBARLINONI
<m n> /m n/
<p t k q b d g> /p t k q b d g/
<f s ç h v j c> /f s tʃ x v ʒ dʒ>
<r l w y> /r~ɾ l w j/
<r> is pronounced as /r/ when at the beginning of a syllable but as /ɾ/ when at the end of a syllable
Consonants can never be geminate, and even loanwords are edited to reflect this. Two different consonants bordering each-other is uncommon except in the case of syllable-final sonorants.
VOWELS - YELNİKYIPODONI
<a e i ı o u> /æ~ɑ ɛ~ɪ i ə ɔ~ʊ y~u/
Vowel harmony affects the spelling and phonetics of every word in Femsha. There are the wide vowels, <a>, <o>, and <u>; The slim vowels, <e> and <i>; And the neutral vowel, <ı>. Wide and slim vowels can never border, even when there is a consonant between them. Because of this, the neutral vowel must always come between the two to act as a bridge. In addition to affecting phonology, vowel harmony also affects affixes used on words.
Incorrect Example: dilup
Correct Example I: dilep
Correct Example II: dalup
Correct Example III: dilıyup
Stress is a major contributor to the way words are pronounced in Femsha. In the phonology guide, one will notice that there are two different pronunciations for <a>, <e>, <o>, and <u>. The first pronunciation occurs when the vowel is stressed, and is called the 'full sound'. The second pronunciation occurs when the vowel is not stressed, and is called the 'diminished sound'. Two of the vowels, <i> and <ı>, do not change in pronunciation regardless of the stress of the word. The latter is due to the fact that <ı> can never be stressed in Femsha.
Example I: dalap /ˈdæ.lɑp/
Example II: delep /ˈdɛ.lɪp/
Example III: dilip /ˈdi.lip/
Example IV: dolop /ˈdɔ.lʊp/
Example V: dulup /ˈdy.lup/
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I'll be posting a section on nouns and pronouns along their various affixes and special modifiers sometime in the future. Constructive criticism is encouraged.
Last edited by Rabotaju on 28 Jun 2015 21:29, edited 4 times in total.
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- mayan
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Re: Femsha
Looks interesting! Might I ask why the plosives are arranged as /p t k b d g q/ rather than /p t k q b d g/?
Re: Femsha
Thank you! I'll probably get the next bit up tomorrowLambuzhao wrote:More, please!
I had forgotten to list that phoneme, so I ended up slapping it on at the end. Thank you, though, I'll be changing that now.GrandPiano wrote:Looks interesting! Might I ask why the plosives are arranged as /p t k b d g q/ rather than /p t k q b d g/?
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- korean
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Re: Femsha
I second what others have said about the language looking interesting, and about hoping to see more soon! I'm also quite fond of the sound and aesthetic of the words you've presented so far.
Are you sure you have 31 phonemes, though, and not 31 phones? Based on what you've described, it seems to me that the phoneme /r/ has two allophones, [r] (word-medially) and [ɾ] (elsewhere). Similarly, it seems that the phonemes /ɑ e o u/ have the allophones [ɑ e o u] in stressed syllables, but [æ ɪ ʊ y] in unstressed syllables.
Are you sure you have 31 phonemes, though, and not 31 phones? Based on what you've described, it seems to me that the phoneme /r/ has two allophones, [r] (word-medially) and [ɾ] (elsewhere). Similarly, it seems that the phonemes /ɑ e o u/ have the allophones [ɑ e o u] in stressed syllables, but [æ ɪ ʊ y] in unstressed syllables.
Re: Femsha
Thank you. I'm sort of unfamiliar with the vocabulary regarding this sort of thing, as I don't typically write actual guides to the phonetics.shimobaatar wrote:I second what others have said about the language looking interesting, and about hoping to see more soon! I'm also quite fond of the sound and aesthetic of the words you've presented so far.
Are you sure you have 31 phonemes, though, and not 31 phones? Based on what you've described, it seems to me that the phoneme /r/ has two allophones, [r] (word-medially) and [ɾ] (elsewhere). Similarly, it seems that the phonemes /ɑ e o u/ have the allophones [ɑ e o u] in stressed syllables, but [æ ɪ ʊ y] in unstressed syllables.
Re: Femsha
Why do you represent / dʒ/ with <c> and then alternative spell it <sh> as in the name? It is a real throw off, let alone a lack of /S/ but having /Z/ (the X-Sampa equivalent of /ʒ/)
Re: Femsha
The spelling of the name is just an old transliteration from several overhauls ago, and is pronounced as /ˈfem.ʃa/. But the native name is just Femcı.Ahzoh wrote:Why do you represent / dʒ/ with <c> and then alternative spell it <sh> as in the name? It is a real throw off, let alone a lack of /S/ but having /Z/ (the X-Sampa equivalent of /ʒ/)
Nouns and Pronouns
NOUNS AND PRONOUNS
Nouns and pronouns are marked with case, number, and definiteness. Both categories have complete gender neutrality.
NOUNS
Nouns are denoted by suffixes added to a word base, and which one is used is dependent on whether the last vowel before the suffix is added is wide, slender, or neutral. These suffixes define the case, number, and definiteness of the noun they are attached to. The suffixes are never stressed, and the stressed syllable always remains in the original word base.
CASES*
NOMINATIVE
Wide Suffix: -o
Slender Suffix: -ı
Neutral Suffix: -ı
Example I: alamo /ɑˈlæ.mʊ/ 'water'
Example II: yepresı /jɪpˈrɛ.sə/ 'a person'
Example III: asısı /ˈæ.sə.sə/ 'a saint'
ACCUSATIVE
The accusative case is used to denote the direct object of a sentence.
Wide Suffix: -u
Slender Suffix: -i
Neutral Suffix: -i
Example I: alamu /ɑˈlæ.mu/ 'water'
Example II: yepresi /jɪpˈrɛ.si/ 'a person'
Example III: asısi /ˈæ.sə.si/ 'a saint'
PREPOSITIONAL
The prepositional case is used after prepositions or as the dative case.
Wide Suffix: -ok
Slender Suffix: -ek
Neutral Suffix: -ek
Example I: alamok /ɑˈlæ.mʊk/ 'to water'
Example II: yepresek /jɪpˈrɛ.sɪk/ 'to a person'
Example III: asısek /ˈæ.sə.sɪk/ 'to a saint'
DATIVE
The dative case is used when the noun is an indirect object within a statement.
Wide Suffix: -uk
Slender Suffix: -ik
Neutral Suffix: -ik
Example I: alamuk /ɑˈlæ.muk/ 'to water'
Example II: yepresik /jɪpˈrɛ.sik/ 'to a person'
Example III: asısik /ˈæ.sə.sik/ 'to a saint'
GENITIVE
The prepositional case is used after prepositions or as the dative case.
Wide Suffix: -aj
Slender Suffix: -ej
Neutral Suffix: -ej
Example I: alamaj /ɑˈlæ.mɑʒ/ 'to water'
Example II: yepresej /jɪpˈrɛ.sɪʒ/ 'to a person'
Example III: asısej /ˈæ.sə.sɪʒ/ 'to a saint'
PLURALS
There are two types of plurals in Femsha: The certain plural and the uncertain plural. The certain plural is used when one is definitely sure that the noun is greater than one in number. Uncertain plurals are used when one is not definitely sure that the noun is greater than one in number. Plurals are formed by adding a suffix after the initial suffix denoting the case of the noun. The suffixes denoting plurals of the nominative and accusative cases are the same, but they are different for those in the prepositional and dative cases.
NOMINATIVE AND ACCUSATIVE PLURALS
Certain Plural Suffix: -n
Uncertain Plural Suffix: -m
Example I: alamon /ɑˈlæ.mʊn/ 'waters'
Example II: yepresın /jɪpˈrɛ.sən/ 'people'
Example III: asısım /ɑˈsə.səm/ 'saints' (uncertain)
Example IV: cilekım /ˈdʒi.lɪ.kəm/ 'states' (uncertain)
PREPOSITIONAL PLURALS
Wide Certain Plural Suffix: -onok
Wide Uncertain Plural Suffix: -omok
Slender/Neutral Certain Plural Suffix: -enek
Slender/Neutral Uncertain Plural Suffix: -emek
Example I: alamonok /æˈlɑ.mʊnʊk/ 'to waters'
Example II: yepresenek /jɪpˈrɛ.sɪ.nɪk/ 'to people'
Example III: asısemek /ɑˈsə.sɪmɪk/ 'to saints' (uncertain)
Example IV: cilekemek /ˈdʒi.lɪ.kɪmɪk/ 'to states' (uncertain)
DATIVE PLURALS
Wide Certain Plural Suffix: -unuk
Wide Uncertain Plural Suffix: -umuk
Slender/Neutral Certain Plural Suffix: -inik
Slender/Neutral Uncertain Plural Suffix: -imik
Example I: alamunuk /æˈlɑ.munuk/ 'to waters'
Example II: yepresinik /jɪpˈrɛ.sinik/ 'to people'
Example III: asısimik /ɑˈsə.simik/ 'to saints' (uncertain)
Example IV: cilekimik /ˈdʒi.lɪ.kimik/ 'to states' (uncertain)
GENITIVE PLURALS
Wide Certain Plural Suffix: -ac
Wide Uncertain Plural Suffix: -aç
Slender/Neutral Certain Plural Suffix: -ec
Slender/Neutral Uncertain Plural Suffix: -eç
Example I: alamoc /æˈlɑ.mɑdʒ/ 'to waters'
Example II: yepresec /jɪpˈrɛ.sɪdʒ/ 'to people'
Example III: asıseç /ɑˈsə.sɪtʃ/ 'to saints' (uncertain)
Example IV: cilekeç /ˈdʒi.lɪ.kɪtʃ/ 'to states' (uncertain)
ARTICLES
INDEFINITE
Indefinite articles are implied when there is no definite article or indication of plurality marked on the noun, as in Irish Gaelic.
DEFINITE
Definite articles take the form of a suffix that attaches after the case denoter and, if applicable, the plural denoter. Like all affixes, the definite suffix must agree with the last vowel before it. In addition to vowel harmony, the suffix must also be changed if it is following a (C)V combination.
Wide, Following (C)V: -wı
Wide, Following (V)C: -ı
Example I: alamowı /æˈlɑ.mʊ.wə/ 'the water'
Example II: yepresejı /jɪpˈɾe.sɪ.ʒə/ 'to the person'
Example III: asısımı /ɑˈsə.sʊ.mə/ 'the saints' (uncertain)
Example IV: cilekeçı /ˈdʒi.lɪ.kɪ.tʃə/ 'to the states' (uncertain)
PRONOUNS
Pronouns follow the same rules as nouns, but they can't have definite articles. They, like nouns, are completely gender neutral. The listed pronouns are in their base indefinite singular subjective form. The wide and slender/neutral forms correspond to the original noun's type.
First Person: yo, yı
Second Person: do, dı
Third Person: co, cı
SUFFIX ORDER RULES
Suffixes on nouns must always come in the order as follows:
N-C-P-D
N: Noun
C: Case
P: Plural
D: Definite article
If the plural isn't present or changes the original case ending, one would move the definite article suffix into its place.
-------
Thank you for the feedback! As per usual, I encourage constructive criticism and if you see any mistakes, don't hesitate to call me out! I'll be posting about adjectives and genitives sometime in the near future.
Nouns and pronouns are marked with case, number, and definiteness. Both categories have complete gender neutrality.
NOUNS
Nouns are denoted by suffixes added to a word base, and which one is used is dependent on whether the last vowel before the suffix is added is wide, slender, or neutral. These suffixes define the case, number, and definiteness of the noun they are attached to. The suffixes are never stressed, and the stressed syllable always remains in the original word base.
CASES*
NOMINATIVE
Wide Suffix: -o
Slender Suffix: -ı
Neutral Suffix: -ı
Example I: alamo /ɑˈlæ.mʊ/ 'water'
Example II: yepresı /jɪpˈrɛ.sə/ 'a person'
Example III: asısı /ˈæ.sə.sə/ 'a saint'
ACCUSATIVE
The accusative case is used to denote the direct object of a sentence.
Wide Suffix: -u
Slender Suffix: -i
Neutral Suffix: -i
Example I: alamu /ɑˈlæ.mu/ 'water'
Example II: yepresi /jɪpˈrɛ.si/ 'a person'
Example III: asısi /ˈæ.sə.si/ 'a saint'
PREPOSITIONAL
The prepositional case is used after prepositions or as the dative case.
Wide Suffix: -ok
Slender Suffix: -ek
Neutral Suffix: -ek
Example I: alamok /ɑˈlæ.mʊk/ 'to water'
Example II: yepresek /jɪpˈrɛ.sɪk/ 'to a person'
Example III: asısek /ˈæ.sə.sɪk/ 'to a saint'
DATIVE
The dative case is used when the noun is an indirect object within a statement.
Wide Suffix: -uk
Slender Suffix: -ik
Neutral Suffix: -ik
Example I: alamuk /ɑˈlæ.muk/ 'to water'
Example II: yepresik /jɪpˈrɛ.sik/ 'to a person'
Example III: asısik /ˈæ.sə.sik/ 'to a saint'
GENITIVE
The prepositional case is used after prepositions or as the dative case.
Wide Suffix: -aj
Slender Suffix: -ej
Neutral Suffix: -ej
Example I: alamaj /ɑˈlæ.mɑʒ/ 'to water'
Example II: yepresej /jɪpˈrɛ.sɪʒ/ 'to a person'
Example III: asısej /ˈæ.sə.sɪʒ/ 'to a saint'
PLURALS
There are two types of plurals in Femsha: The certain plural and the uncertain plural. The certain plural is used when one is definitely sure that the noun is greater than one in number. Uncertain plurals are used when one is not definitely sure that the noun is greater than one in number. Plurals are formed by adding a suffix after the initial suffix denoting the case of the noun. The suffixes denoting plurals of the nominative and accusative cases are the same, but they are different for those in the prepositional and dative cases.
NOMINATIVE AND ACCUSATIVE PLURALS
Certain Plural Suffix: -n
Uncertain Plural Suffix: -m
Example I: alamon /ɑˈlæ.mʊn/ 'waters'
Example II: yepresın /jɪpˈrɛ.sən/ 'people'
Example III: asısım /ɑˈsə.səm/ 'saints' (uncertain)
Example IV: cilekım /ˈdʒi.lɪ.kəm/ 'states' (uncertain)
PREPOSITIONAL PLURALS
Wide Certain Plural Suffix: -onok
Wide Uncertain Plural Suffix: -omok
Slender/Neutral Certain Plural Suffix: -enek
Slender/Neutral Uncertain Plural Suffix: -emek
Example I: alamonok /æˈlɑ.mʊnʊk/ 'to waters'
Example II: yepresenek /jɪpˈrɛ.sɪ.nɪk/ 'to people'
Example III: asısemek /ɑˈsə.sɪmɪk/ 'to saints' (uncertain)
Example IV: cilekemek /ˈdʒi.lɪ.kɪmɪk/ 'to states' (uncertain)
DATIVE PLURALS
Wide Certain Plural Suffix: -unuk
Wide Uncertain Plural Suffix: -umuk
Slender/Neutral Certain Plural Suffix: -inik
Slender/Neutral Uncertain Plural Suffix: -imik
Example I: alamunuk /æˈlɑ.munuk/ 'to waters'
Example II: yepresinik /jɪpˈrɛ.sinik/ 'to people'
Example III: asısimik /ɑˈsə.simik/ 'to saints' (uncertain)
Example IV: cilekimik /ˈdʒi.lɪ.kimik/ 'to states' (uncertain)
GENITIVE PLURALS
Wide Certain Plural Suffix: -ac
Wide Uncertain Plural Suffix: -aç
Slender/Neutral Certain Plural Suffix: -ec
Slender/Neutral Uncertain Plural Suffix: -eç
Example I: alamoc /æˈlɑ.mɑdʒ/ 'to waters'
Example II: yepresec /jɪpˈrɛ.sɪdʒ/ 'to people'
Example III: asıseç /ɑˈsə.sɪtʃ/ 'to saints' (uncertain)
Example IV: cilekeç /ˈdʒi.lɪ.kɪtʃ/ 'to states' (uncertain)
ARTICLES
INDEFINITE
Indefinite articles are implied when there is no definite article or indication of plurality marked on the noun, as in Irish Gaelic.
DEFINITE
Definite articles take the form of a suffix that attaches after the case denoter and, if applicable, the plural denoter. Like all affixes, the definite suffix must agree with the last vowel before it. In addition to vowel harmony, the suffix must also be changed if it is following a (C)V combination.
Wide, Following (C)V: -wı
Wide, Following (V)C: -ı
Example I: alamowı /æˈlɑ.mʊ.wə/ 'the water'
Example II: yepresejı /jɪpˈɾe.sɪ.ʒə/ 'to the person'
Example III: asısımı /ɑˈsə.sʊ.mə/ 'the saints' (uncertain)
Example IV: cilekeçı /ˈdʒi.lɪ.kɪ.tʃə/ 'to the states' (uncertain)
PRONOUNS
Pronouns follow the same rules as nouns, but they can't have definite articles. They, like nouns, are completely gender neutral. The listed pronouns are in their base indefinite singular subjective form. The wide and slender/neutral forms correspond to the original noun's type.
First Person: yo, yı
Second Person: do, dı
Third Person: co, cı
SUFFIX ORDER RULES
Suffixes on nouns must always come in the order as follows:
N-C-P-D
N: Noun
C: Case
P: Plural
D: Definite article
If the plural isn't present or changes the original case ending, one would move the definite article suffix into its place.
-------
Thank you for the feedback! As per usual, I encourage constructive criticism and if you see any mistakes, don't hesitate to call me out! I'll be posting about adjectives and genitives sometime in the near future.
Last edited by Rabotaju on 28 Jun 2015 21:54, edited 2 times in total.
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- korean
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Re: Femsha
Are the wide and neutral suffixes ever different?Rabotaju wrote:NOMINATIVE
Wide Suffix: -o
Slender Suffix: -ı
Neutral Suffix: -o
I think you might be transcribing both the phonemes /j y/ as /y y/ (for reference, /j y/ are <y u> in your orthography, I think).Rabotaju wrote:Example I: alamu /æˈlɑ.my/ 'water'
Example II: yepresi /yɪpˈɾe.si/ 'a person'
Example III: asısu /ˈɑ.sə.sy/ 'a saint'
I think I'm probably missing something, but why not just consider them the same case?Rabotaju wrote:PREPOSITIONAL AND DATIVE
The dative case uses the same suffixes as the prepositional case, so I have grouped them together.
Interesting!Rabotaju wrote:There are two types of plurals in Femsha: The certain plural and the uncertain plural. The certain plural is used when one is definitely sure that the noun is greater than one in number. Uncertain plurals are used when one is not definitely sure that the noun is greater than one in number. Plurals are formed by adding a suffix after the initial suffix denoting the case of the noun.
I might be wrong, but the suffixes listed here don't seem to match up with the example words.Rabotaju wrote:PREPOSITIONAL AND DATIVE PLURALS
Wide Suffix: -aj
Slender Suffix: -ej
Neutral Suffix: -aj
Example I: alamac /æˈlɑ.mædʒ/ 'to waters'
Example II: yepresec /yɪpˈre.sɪdʒ/ 'to people'
Example III: asısaç /ɑˈsə.sætʃ/ 'to saints' (uncertain)
Example IV: cilekıç /ˈdʒi.lɪ.kətʃ/ 'to states' (uncertain)
If the wide, slender, and neutral forms are all the same, why list them separately like this?Rabotaju wrote:Wide, Following (C)V: -wı
Wide, Following (V)C: -ı
Slender, Following (C)V: -wı
Slender, Following (V)C: -ı
Neutral, Following (C)V: -wı
Neutral, Following (V)C: -ı
It's cool that the structure of the preceding syllable also determines the form of the affix as well as vowel harmony!
Most of the things I've said are just minor nitpicks. I still quite like the looks of the language, and I hope to see more soon!Rabotaju wrote:Thank you for the feedback! As per usual, I encourage constructive criticism and if you see any mistakes, don't hesitate to call me out! I'll be posting about adjectives and genitives sometime in the near future.
Re: Femsha
Is this word meant to change stress? If so, awesome! Are there any other words that do?Rabotaju wrote:asısu /ˈɑ.sə.sy/ 'a saint' ~ asısom /ɑˈsə.sʊm/ 'saints'
Just letting you know, I really like the suffixes of this the language. They are really aesthetically pleasing.
Re: Femsha
No. I just listed them for consistency.shimobaatar wrote:Are the wide and neutral suffixes ever different?
Oh, that was actually a mistake on my part. Thank you for catching it!shimobaatar wrote:I think you might be transcribing both the phonemes /j y/ as /y y/ (for reference, /j y/ are <y u> in your orthography, I think).
For fear of getting yelled at for not considering them different. But since that is not the case (Punintentional), I'll just combine them into one prepositional case.shimobaatar wrote:I think I'm probably missing something, but why not just consider them the same case?
Thank you!shimobaatar wrote:Interesting!
I had copied the block I used for the singular prepositional case, and it appears that I forgot to change the suffixes accordingly.shimobaatar wrote:I might be wrong, but the suffixes listed here don't seem to match up with the example words.
Consistency. But I'll combine them anyway, as it looks worse how it is in hindsight.shimobaatar wrote:If the wide, slender, and neutral forms are all the same, why list them separately like this?
Thank you! I took a inspiration from Turkish for this sort of thing, since it does the same thing to a lesser degree.shimobaatar wrote:It's cool that the structure of the preceding syllable also determines the form of the affix as well as vowel harmony!
These nitpicks are extremely helpful though. I tend to make mistakes, and it helps massively when people call me out on them!shimobaatar wrote:Most of the things I've said are just minor nitpicks. I still quite like the looks of the language, and I hope to see more soon!
Yes. It's an exception to standard stress rules that I have yet to create a new set for.kanejam wrote:Is this word meant to change stress? If so, awesome! Are there any other words that do?Rabotaju wrote:asısu /ˈɑ.sə.sy/ 'a saint' ~ asısom /ɑˈsə.sʊm/ 'saints'
Just letting you know, I really like the suffixes of this the language. They are really aesthetically pleasing.
Thank you!
Re: Femsha
Okay, that seems great so far.Rabotaju wrote:<ı> can never be stressed in Femsha.
Wait... What?Rabotaju wrote:/ɑˈsə.sʊm/ 'saints'
With the sole exception of that I can't find anything wrong. The certainity plural is a great idea that I myself think I've been pondering one time or another. Vowel harmony is something we see to little of around here and that together with the different suffixes make the conlang aestethically appealing. I'm looking forward for more.
The accusative of <emo> is <eminem>.
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Re: Femsha
I could be wrong in my assumption, but I figured that this quote from the post above yours might be relevant:idov wrote:Okay, that seems great so far.Rabotaju wrote:<ı> can never be stressed in Femsha.Wait... What?Rabotaju wrote:/ɑˈsə.sʊm/ 'saints'
I'd be interested in hearing what Rabotaju has to say, though.Rabotaju wrote:Yes. It's an exception to standard stress rules that I have yet to create a new set for.
Re: Femsha
I've decided that this exception will apply when a word begins with a vowel. The stress is always shifted to the <ı> in that word when plurality is present, but the when the word is singular the stress must remain on the original stressed vowel.shimobaatar wrote:I could be wrong in my assumption, but I figured that this quote from the post above yours might be relevant:idov wrote:Okay, that seems great so far.Rabotaju wrote:<ı> can never be stressed in Femsha.Wait... What?Rabotaju wrote:/ɑˈsə.sʊm/ 'saints'
I'd be interested in hearing what Rabotaju has to say, though.Rabotaju wrote:Yes. It's an exception to standard stress rules that I have yet to create a new set for.
Re: Femsha
Sorry for the slightly larger delay, I've been working on altering some of the existing grammar. All changes will be reflected in my previous posts, but here's a list of altered aspects:
-Some stressed v. unstressed versions of vowels have been flipped
-The <r> now represents [r] when at the beginning of a syllable, but [ɾ] when at the end of a syllable
-The dative and genitive cases have been added
-Some existing case endings have been changed
-Rules regarding proper nouns and case endings have been added
-Some stressed v. unstressed versions of vowels have been flipped
-The <r> now represents [r] when at the beginning of a syllable, but [ɾ] when at the end of a syllable
-The dative and genitive cases have been added
-Some existing case endings have been changed
-Rules regarding proper nouns and case endings have been added
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Re: Femsha
No worries about the delay. I went back and reread the other two posts; everything still looks great to me, and I hope we get to see even more soon!Rabotaju wrote:Sorry for the slightly larger delay, I've been working on altering some of the existing grammar. All changes will be reflected in my previous posts, but here's a list of altered aspects:
-Some stressed v. unstressed versions of vowels have been flipped
-The <r> now represents [r] when at the beginning of a syllable, but [ɾ] when at the end of a syllable
-The dative and genitive cases have been added
-Some existing case endings have been changed
-Rules regarding proper nouns and case endings have been added
Re: Femsha
MODIFIERS AND VERBS
Modifiers can function as either adjectives or adverbs, depending on their placement in relation to other words and the type of word they are modifying. The verbal section is included in this post as well, because adverbs can't really be explained without them.
INDEFINITE ADJECTIVES
Adjectives always modify nouns. Adjectives can only decline by number, degree, and article, disregarding case. As with nouns, the affixes are never stressed. The adjective always follows the modified noun.
SINGULAR DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -a
-Comparative: -ad
-Superlative: -aud
-Neg.Comparative: -ah
-Neg.Superlative: -auh
guna: heavy; daily; south
gunad: heavier; more daily; farther south
gunaud: heaviest; most daily; farthest south
gunah: less heavy; less daily; nearer south
gunauh: least heavy; least daily; nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -e
-Comparative: -ed
-Superlative: -eid
-Neg.Comparative: -eh
-Neg.Superlative: -eih
çeteke: evil
çeteked: more evil
çetekeid: most evil
çetekeh: less evil
çetekeih: least evil
PLURAL DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -an
-Comparative: -anad
-Superlative: -anud
-Neg.Comparative: -anah
-Neg.Superlative: -anuh
gunan: heavy; daily; south
gunanad: heavier; more daily; farther south
gunanud: heaviest; most daily; farthest south
gunanah: less heavy; less daily; nearer south
gunanuh: least heavy; least daily; nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -en
-Comparative: -ened
-Superlative: -enid
-Neg.Comparative: -eneh
-Neg.Superlative: -enih
çeteken: evil
çetekened: more evil
çetekenid: most evil
çetekeneh: less evil
çetekenih: least evil
INDEFINITE NUMBER DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -am
-Comparative: -amad
-Superlative: -amud
-Neg.Comparative: -amah
-Neg.Superlative: -amuh
gunam: heavy; daily; south
gunamad: heavier; more daily; farther south
gunamud: heaviest; most daily; farthest south
gunamah: less heavy; less daily; nearer south
gunamuh: least heavy; least daily; nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -em
-Comparative: -emed
-Superlative: -emid
-Neg.Comparative: -emeh
-Neg.Superlative: -emih
çetekem: evil
çetekemed: more evil
çetekemid: most evil
çetekemeh: less evil
çetekemih: least evil
DEFINITE ADJECTIVES
SINGULAR DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -awı
-Comparative: -adı
-Superlative: -audı
-Neg.Comparative: -ahı
-Neg.Superlative: -auhı
gunawı: (the) heavy; (the) daily; (the) south
gunadı: the heavier; the more daily; the farther south
gunaudı: the heaviest; the most daily; the farthest south
gunahı: less heavy; less daily; nearer south
gunauhı: least heavy; least daily; nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -ewı
-Comparative: -edı
-Superlative: -eidı
-Neg.Comparative: -ehı
-Neg.Superlative: -eihı
çetekewı: (the) evil
çetekedı: the more evil
çetekeidı: the most evil
çetekehı: the less evil
çetekeihı: the least evil
PLURAL DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -anı
-Comparative: -anadı
-Superlative: -anudı
-Neg.Comparative: -anahı
-Neg.Superlative: -anuhı
gunanı: (the) heavy; (the) daily; (the) south
gunanadı: the heavier; the more daily; the farther south
gunanudı: the heaviest; the most daily; the farthest south
gunanahı: the less heavy; the less daily; the nearer south
gunanuhı: the least heavy; the least daily; the nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -enı
-Comparative: -enedı
-Superlative: -enidı
-Neg.Comparative: -enehı
-Neg.Superlative: -enihı
çetekenı: (the) evil
çetekenedı: the more evil
çetekenidı: the most evil
çetekenehı: the less evil
çetekenihı: the least evil
INDEFINITE NUMBER DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -amı
-Comparative: -amadı
-Superlative: -amudı
-Neg.Comparative: -amahı
-Neg.Superlative: -amuhı
gunamı: (the) heavy; (the) daily; (the) south
gunamadı: the heavier; the more daily; the farther south
gunamudı: the heaviest; the most daily; the farthest south
gunamahı: the less heavy; the less daily; the nearer south
gunamuhı: the least heavy; the least daily; the nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -emı
-Comparative: -emedı
-Superlative: -emidı
-Neg.Comparative: -emehı
-Neg.Superlative: -emihı
çetekemı: (the) evil
çetekemedı: the more evil
çetekemidı: the most evil
çetekemehı: the less evil
çetekemihı: the least evil
VERBS
Verbs describe what a subject did, is doing, or will do. Verbs decline by number and tense only. Mood, aspect, and other verbal constructs are described using particles that may be able to become a suffix, as long as the vowel harmony rules permit the construct and there is no adverb.
SINGULAR DECLENSIONS
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -ut
-Past: -ur
-Present: -ul
-Future: -us
nurut: to be happy
nurur: was happy
nurul: is happy
nurus: will be happy
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -it
-Past: -ir
-Present: -il
-Future: -is
verit: to give
verir: gave
veril: give
veris: will give
PLURAL DECLENSIONS
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -ut
-Past: -unur
-Present: -unul
-Future: -unus
nurut: to be happy
nurunur: was happy
nurunul: is happy
nurunus: will be happy
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -it
-Past: -inir
-Present: -inil
-Future: -inis
verit: to give
verinir: gave
verinil: give
verinis: will give
INDEFINITE NUMBER DECLENSIONS
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -ut
-Past: -umur
-Present: -umul
-Future: -umus
nurut: to be happy
nurumur: was happy
nurumul: is happy
nurumus: will be happy
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -it
-Past: -imir
-Present: -imil
-Future: -imis
verit: to give
verimir: gave
verimil: give
verimis: will give
PARTICLES
A verb must always be followed by a particle. If there is no mood, aspect, etc., the neutral particle is used as a placeholder.
Neutral: um
Indicative: esem
Subjunctive: yetım
Negative: elim
Imperative: im
Hearsay: esim
Inferential: yesim
One can combine different particles by adding hyphens between each particle, but once two or more particles are attached they cannot become a clitic. The neutral particle is only really used when an infinitive verb follows an auxiliary verb, as in the case of phrases such as yı isiyeril esem sik verit um... 'I want for you to give...'.
nurutum: to be happy
nurut elim: to not be happy
veritim: give
verit um: to give
ADVERBS
Adverbs modify the verb in any given phrase or sentence, or modify adjectives. When modifying verbs, the adverb goes after the verb itself and before the particle. If there are multiple adverbs modifying a single verb, the particle must follow the last adverb. When modifying adjectives, the adverb is followed by the meaningless particle mam in order to distinguish it from other adjectives. This distinction is necessary because adverbs use the same ending as the singular adjective endings.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -a
-Comparative: -ad
-Superlative: -aud
-Neg.Comparative: -ah
-Neg.Superlative: -auh
guna: heavily; daily
gunad: more heavily; more daily
gunaud: most heavily; most daily
gunah: less heavily; less daily
gunauh: least heavily; least daily
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -e
-Comparative: -ed
-Superlative: -eid
-Neg.Comparative: -eh
-Neg.Superlative: -eih
çeteke: evilly
çeteked: more evilly
çetekeid: most evilly
çetekeh: less evilly
çetekeih: least evilly
nurut guna um: to be happy daily
nurut guna elim: to not be happy daily
verit daily im: give daily
verit guna um: to give daily
-------
Thank you for the feedback! As per usual, I encourage constructive criticism and if you see any mistakes, don't hesitate to call me out! I changed the names of the definite and indefinite plurals to plural and indefinite number. No rules have changed, only the names.
Modifiers can function as either adjectives or adverbs, depending on their placement in relation to other words and the type of word they are modifying. The verbal section is included in this post as well, because adverbs can't really be explained without them.
INDEFINITE ADJECTIVES
Adjectives always modify nouns. Adjectives can only decline by number, degree, and article, disregarding case. As with nouns, the affixes are never stressed. The adjective always follows the modified noun.
SINGULAR DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -a
-Comparative: -ad
-Superlative: -aud
-Neg.Comparative: -ah
-Neg.Superlative: -auh
guna: heavy; daily; south
gunad: heavier; more daily; farther south
gunaud: heaviest; most daily; farthest south
gunah: less heavy; less daily; nearer south
gunauh: least heavy; least daily; nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -e
-Comparative: -ed
-Superlative: -eid
-Neg.Comparative: -eh
-Neg.Superlative: -eih
çeteke: evil
çeteked: more evil
çetekeid: most evil
çetekeh: less evil
çetekeih: least evil
PLURAL DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -an
-Comparative: -anad
-Superlative: -anud
-Neg.Comparative: -anah
-Neg.Superlative: -anuh
gunan: heavy; daily; south
gunanad: heavier; more daily; farther south
gunanud: heaviest; most daily; farthest south
gunanah: less heavy; less daily; nearer south
gunanuh: least heavy; least daily; nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -en
-Comparative: -ened
-Superlative: -enid
-Neg.Comparative: -eneh
-Neg.Superlative: -enih
çeteken: evil
çetekened: more evil
çetekenid: most evil
çetekeneh: less evil
çetekenih: least evil
INDEFINITE NUMBER DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -am
-Comparative: -amad
-Superlative: -amud
-Neg.Comparative: -amah
-Neg.Superlative: -amuh
gunam: heavy; daily; south
gunamad: heavier; more daily; farther south
gunamud: heaviest; most daily; farthest south
gunamah: less heavy; less daily; nearer south
gunamuh: least heavy; least daily; nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -em
-Comparative: -emed
-Superlative: -emid
-Neg.Comparative: -emeh
-Neg.Superlative: -emih
çetekem: evil
çetekemed: more evil
çetekemid: most evil
çetekemeh: less evil
çetekemih: least evil
DEFINITE ADJECTIVES
SINGULAR DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -awı
-Comparative: -adı
-Superlative: -audı
-Neg.Comparative: -ahı
-Neg.Superlative: -auhı
gunawı: (the) heavy; (the) daily; (the) south
gunadı: the heavier; the more daily; the farther south
gunaudı: the heaviest; the most daily; the farthest south
gunahı: less heavy; less daily; nearer south
gunauhı: least heavy; least daily; nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -ewı
-Comparative: -edı
-Superlative: -eidı
-Neg.Comparative: -ehı
-Neg.Superlative: -eihı
çetekewı: (the) evil
çetekedı: the more evil
çetekeidı: the most evil
çetekehı: the less evil
çetekeihı: the least evil
PLURAL DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -anı
-Comparative: -anadı
-Superlative: -anudı
-Neg.Comparative: -anahı
-Neg.Superlative: -anuhı
gunanı: (the) heavy; (the) daily; (the) south
gunanadı: the heavier; the more daily; the farther south
gunanudı: the heaviest; the most daily; the farthest south
gunanahı: the less heavy; the less daily; the nearer south
gunanuhı: the least heavy; the least daily; the nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -enı
-Comparative: -enedı
-Superlative: -enidı
-Neg.Comparative: -enehı
-Neg.Superlative: -enihı
çetekenı: (the) evil
çetekenedı: the more evil
çetekenidı: the most evil
çetekenehı: the less evil
çetekenihı: the least evil
INDEFINITE NUMBER DECLENSIONS
The degrees of negative adjectives are equivalent to the English words less and least.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -amı
-Comparative: -amadı
-Superlative: -amudı
-Neg.Comparative: -amahı
-Neg.Superlative: -amuhı
gunamı: (the) heavy; (the) daily; (the) south
gunamadı: the heavier; the more daily; the farther south
gunamudı: the heaviest; the most daily; the farthest south
gunamahı: the less heavy; the less daily; the nearer south
gunamuhı: the least heavy; the least daily; the nearest south
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -emı
-Comparative: -emedı
-Superlative: -emidı
-Neg.Comparative: -emehı
-Neg.Superlative: -emihı
çetekemı: (the) evil
çetekemedı: the more evil
çetekemidı: the most evil
çetekemehı: the less evil
çetekemihı: the least evil
VERBS
Verbs describe what a subject did, is doing, or will do. Verbs decline by number and tense only. Mood, aspect, and other verbal constructs are described using particles that may be able to become a suffix, as long as the vowel harmony rules permit the construct and there is no adverb.
SINGULAR DECLENSIONS
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -ut
-Past: -ur
-Present: -ul
-Future: -us
nurut: to be happy
nurur: was happy
nurul: is happy
nurus: will be happy
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -it
-Past: -ir
-Present: -il
-Future: -is
verit: to give
verir: gave
veril: give
veris: will give
PLURAL DECLENSIONS
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -ut
-Past: -unur
-Present: -unul
-Future: -unus
nurut: to be happy
nurunur: was happy
nurunul: is happy
nurunus: will be happy
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -it
-Past: -inir
-Present: -inil
-Future: -inis
verit: to give
verinir: gave
verinil: give
verinis: will give
INDEFINITE NUMBER DECLENSIONS
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -ut
-Past: -umur
-Present: -umul
-Future: -umus
nurut: to be happy
nurumur: was happy
nurumul: is happy
nurumus: will be happy
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Infinitive: -it
-Past: -imir
-Present: -imil
-Future: -imis
verit: to give
verimir: gave
verimil: give
verimis: will give
PARTICLES
A verb must always be followed by a particle. If there is no mood, aspect, etc., the neutral particle is used as a placeholder.
Neutral: um
Indicative: esem
Subjunctive: yetım
Negative: elim
Imperative: im
Hearsay: esim
Inferential: yesim
One can combine different particles by adding hyphens between each particle, but once two or more particles are attached they cannot become a clitic. The neutral particle is only really used when an infinitive verb follows an auxiliary verb, as in the case of phrases such as yı isiyeril esem sik verit um... 'I want for you to give...'.
nurutum: to be happy
nurut elim: to not be happy
veritim: give
verit um: to give
ADVERBS
Adverbs modify the verb in any given phrase or sentence, or modify adjectives. When modifying verbs, the adverb goes after the verb itself and before the particle. If there are multiple adverbs modifying a single verb, the particle must follow the last adverb. When modifying adjectives, the adverb is followed by the meaningless particle mam in order to distinguish it from other adjectives. This distinction is necessary because adverbs use the same ending as the singular adjective endings.
WIDE DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -a
-Comparative: -ad
-Superlative: -aud
-Neg.Comparative: -ah
-Neg.Superlative: -auh
guna: heavily; daily
gunad: more heavily; more daily
gunaud: most heavily; most daily
gunah: less heavily; less daily
gunauh: least heavily; least daily
SLENDER/NEUTRAL DECLENSIONS
-Positive: -e
-Comparative: -ed
-Superlative: -eid
-Neg.Comparative: -eh
-Neg.Superlative: -eih
çeteke: evilly
çeteked: more evilly
çetekeid: most evilly
çetekeh: less evilly
çetekeih: least evilly
nurut guna um: to be happy daily
nurut guna elim: to not be happy daily
verit daily im: give daily
verit guna um: to give daily
-------
Thank you for the feedback! As per usual, I encourage constructive criticism and if you see any mistakes, don't hesitate to call me out! I changed the names of the definite and indefinite plurals to plural and indefinite number. No rules have changed, only the names.
Last edited by Rabotaju on 06 Sep 2015 19:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Femsha
Looks good overall!Rabotaju wrote:Modifiers can function as either adjectives or adverbs, depending on their placement in relation to other words and the type of word they are modifying. The verbal section is included in this post as well, because adverbs can't really be explained without them.
I find the three possible meanings of this word quite interesting!Rabotaju wrote:guna: heavy; daily; south
I might be missing something, but, at least to me, it appears that, in addition to number, verbs also decline for tense (past/present/future) and have an infinitive form? When would the infinitive form be used, and I assume that verbs agree with their subjects in number?Rabotaju wrote:Verbs describe what a subject did, is doing, or will do. Verbs decline by number only. Mood, aspect, and other verbal constructs are described using particles that may be able to become a suffix, as long as the vowel harmony rules permit the construct and there is no adverb.
What's the difference between the neutral and the indicative? Can multiple particles be used at once?Rabotaju wrote:A verb must always be followed by a particle. If there is no mood, aspect, etc., the neutral particle is used as a placeholder.
Neutral: um
Indicative: esem
Subjunctive: yetım
Negative: elim
Imperative: im
Hearsay: esim
Inferential: yesim
So adverbs do not decline, and always have the same ending (which is the same as the positive ending for adjectives)? Do they decline for number (since there are, I believe, multiple positive endings for adjectives because of the different grammatical numbers) or anything like that?Rabotaju wrote:Adverbs modify the verb in any given phrase or sentence, or modify adjectives. When modifying verbs, the adverb goes after the verb itself and before the particle. If there are multiple adverbs modifying a single verb, the particle must follow the last adverb. When modifying adjectives, the adverb is followed by the meaningless particle mam in order to distinguish it from other adjectives. This distinction is necessary because adverbs use the same ending as the positive adjective ending.
Also, would you say that the verbal particles behave at least somewhat like clitics?
Re: Femsha
Sorry, the fact that tense is a declension completely flew over my head at the time of writing.shimobaatar wrote:I might be missing something, but, at least to me, it appears that, in addition to number, verbs also decline for tense (past/present/future) and have an infinitive form? When would the infinitive form be used, and I assume that verbs agree with their subjects in number?
The neutral is used on infinitive verbs following an auxiliary verb. And yes, multiple particles can be used at once. An example would be telling someone not to do something, in which case the negative and imperative particles would be used. When two or more particles are combined (using a hyphen between the two, like elim-im rather than elimim ofr a combination of the negative and imperative), they can not function as a clitic.shimobaatar wrote:What's the difference between the neutral and the indicative? Can multiple particles be used at once?
Adverbs don't decline for number, though they do decline for comparative, superlative, and their negative counterparts. It uses the positive singular declensions.shimobaatar wrote:So adverbs do not decline, and always have the same ending (which is the same as the positive ending for adjectives)? Do they decline for number (since there are, I believe, multiple positive endings for adjectives because of the different grammatical numbers) or anything like that?
Also, would you say that the verbal particles behave at least somewhat like clitics?
I suppose that calling them clitics would be the best way to describe them, at least in cases without adverbs and compatible vowels.
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Thank you for the input! It's very, very helpful. The post has been edited to ca=larify rules and correct mistakes.