Romaniquè

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Salvatore
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Romaniquè

Post by Salvatore »

A gallo-romlang that doubles as an auxlang.

Historical POD: Dante Alighieri writes his Inferno in Provençal, which is plausible; he'd already been writing in it perfectly, and it was Europe's language of prestige.
Provençal remains the lingua franca with its speakers in Spain, Italy, and France adapting it- as they did in real life- to various local languages/dialects.

The French adopt a universalized version of it as their language of diplomacy,
in the process infusing it with features from their native langue d'oïl, such as:
Spoiler:
-Replacement of the present participle with the gerund
-Fronting of a's except when used to mark the feminine gender
-Merging of gender for certain plurals (les, ses, tes, cez, cels...)
-Addition of final -t to 3rd person singular verbs before vowels
-Weakening of unstressed vowel endings (which -s doesn't prevent)
-Reduction of ia/iu to e (istore, symfonè) except in some learned words
-Changes to some vowels: u is /y/ and final m or n nasalizes preceding vowel

etc.
...leading to a new language called Romaniquè.

It is Italian and Iberian-friendly, as the origin story suggests, in its morphology and lexicon.
There's also some direct influence from those languages... that's up to you to find [;)]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HkO ... kWwEtVMBg/
Last edited by Salvatore on 16 Oct 2015 07:59, edited 10 times in total.
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Dormouse559
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Dormouse559 »

I'd like to know how it's pronounced. And I'm also curious why third-person singular verb forms end in <t>.
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Salvatore
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Salvatore »

(updated)


The -t ending for some 3rd p. verbs is for euphony when they're followed by a vowel
(French has the -t in some verbs also, so for them it's hopefully familiar)

Similarly, the preposition "a" before vowels becomes "ad" (Italian style)
and "e" becomes "et" (It. style + French spelling)
Last edited by Salvatore on 06 Oct 2015 00:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Dormouse559 »

And how is stress distributed/indicated?

I also noticed Romanica has doubled letters. Does that mean geminated consonants are phonemic?
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Salvatore
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Salvatore »

(edit: out of date)

so, usually penultimate stresses (except e.g. esì, where the grave indicates final stress)
and words like della are indeed pronounced with both doubled consonants, like del-la
Last edited by Salvatore on 06 Oct 2015 00:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Squall »

Quesso ès multo interessante, perché teno una lingua constructa con principios similantes. Posso legere túa lingua e comprehendere-la. [:D]

I think you forgot diacritics to mark the stress of some words: Románica, grammática, capítulo, Francés, profonditá.
in la → nella
I think it is not an advantage because the contraction is not shorter. I tried it in my conlang too.
es la presidente d’Argentina.
The word 'presidenta' was created in 2010 in Brazilian Portuguese when a female president was elected for the first time in the Brazilian history.
Salvatore wrote:Pronounced more or less like Italian, except:
Italian has problems with S (/s z/) and Z (/ts dz/), because the orthography does not tell when they are voiced or unvoiced.
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Salvatore »

Squall wrote:Quesso ès multo interessante, perché teno una lingua constructa con principios similantes. Posso legere túa lingua e comprehendere-la. [:D]
E jo comprendo tua lingua ))
Puo-jo vere la?
Squall wrote: I think you forgot diacritics to mark the stress of some words: Románica, grammática, capítulo, Francés, profonditá.
That's a great idea.
Diacritic system added
Squall wrote:
in la → nella
I think it is not an advantage because the contraction is not shorter. I tried it in my conlang too.
I just like how nella sounds so much that I had to add it in. Aesthetic reasons
Squall wrote:
es la presidente d’Argentina.
The word 'presidenta' was created in 2010 in Brazilian Portuguese when a female president was elected for the first time in the Brazilian history.
That does sound like a good way to feminize presidente.
However... I also like consistency. So if we're going to have presidenta, then also assistenta, dilettanta...

That does sound very good actually. I'll think about this
Squall wrote:
Salvatore wrote:Pronounced more or less like Italian, except:
Italian has problems with S (/s z/) and Z (/ts dz/), because the orthography does not tell when they are voiced or unvoiced.
For Románica, S will always be a /s/... as for the Z, I like the voiced version a lot personally. Let's have them all voiced
Last edited by Salvatore on 01 Sep 2015 06:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by HoskhMatriarch »

Salvatore wrote:
Squall wrote:Quesso ès multo interessante, perché teno una lingua constructa con principios similantes. Posso legere túa lingua e comprehendere-la. [:D]
E jo comprendo tua lingua ))
Puo-jo vere la?
Squall wrote: I think you forgot diacritics to mark the stress of some words: Románica, grammática, capítulo, Francés, profonditá.
That's a great idea.
Diacritic system has been added
Squall wrote:
in la → nella
I think it is not an advantage because the contraction is not shorter. I tried it in my conlang too.
I just like how nella sounds so much that I had to add it in. Aesthetic reasons
Squall wrote:
es la presidente d’Argentina.
The word 'presidenta' was created in 2010 in Brazilian Portuguese when a female president was elected for the first time in the Brazilian history.
That does sound like a good way to feminize presidente.
However... I also like consistency. So if we're going to have presidenta, then also assistenta, dilettanta...

That does sound very good actually. I'll think about this
Squall wrote:
Salvatore wrote:Pronounced more or less like Italian, except:
Italian has problems with S (/s z/) and Z (/ts dz/), because the orthography does not tell when they are voiced or unvoiced.
For Románica, S will always be a /s/... as for the Z, I like the voiced version a lot personally. Let's have them all voiced
So you're having /d͡z/ without a /t͡s/? That's weird. You can't have all your obstruents (phonetically) voiced.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Salvatore »

alright, then Z shall always be the voiceless /ts/

is there a particular reason?
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by cntrational »

In regards to female profession names: Québec French is far more willing to feminize words than European French is: la docteure, la professeure, la première ministre, la gouverneure générale. These're all atypical in Europe, but officially sactioned and actually used in Québec.

Additionally, political and formal Québec speech is often more willing to specify further on gender -- using phrases like citoyens et citoyennes instead of just citoyens. I'm told the law even requires both to be specified in advertisements if the job can be applied to by anybody.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Squall »

Salvatore wrote:
Squall wrote:Quesso ès multo interessante, perché teno una lingua constructa con principios similantes. Posso legere túa lingua e comprehendere-la. [:D]
E jo comprendo tua lingua ))
Puo-jo vere la?
Certamente. Illa està equí.

You have succeeded in including French features. French is really very difficult for me.
I keep the last -e in some words (-are, -one, -ale) instead of removing them, as Spanish did, because I like how Italian sounds with them.
Salvatore wrote:However... I also like consistency. So if we're going to have presidenta, then also assistenta, dilettanta...
'presidenta' is the only exception in Portuguese, 'assistenta' would never be accepted. President was the only government job that did not have a feminine form.
However, in Argentina, they did not adopt 'presidenta', is that right?
Last edited by Squall on 01 Sep 2015 23:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by HoskhMatriarch »

Salvatore wrote:alright, then Z shall always be the voiceless /ts/

is there a particular reason?
Is there a reason you can't have all your obstruents phonetically voiced? Yes, no natural language has been found to do that, and there's probably some theoretical reason, but I'm sure it largely has to do with voiceless obstruents being easier to produce in most environments (e.g. many unrelated languages devoice all obstruents at the ends of words, and many more than that only have voiceless obstruents to being with). There are some that only have phonemically voiced obstruents, but they're still devoiced in certain environments. I don't know a whole lot about the phonology of those languages, though.
Last edited by HoskhMatriarch on 02 Sep 2015 03:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Avo »

This is interesting. I'm a native speaker of Italian and I've studied French, Spanish and Catalan in the past, and I feel like I can read both your languages easier than any of the last three.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by cntrational »

that's because it's really Italian
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Squall »

cntrational wrote:that's because it's really Italian
But I can read his language far better than Italian. [:)]
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by kanejam »

Porque Italian es la lingua la plu conservativa. Los hybridos de las linguas romanicas son tan comunes que yo posso en facer uno sur la plaza; in fato, es tan facil que ecriver en el frances que yo parlo. Mi favorite es la interlingua, mas ils son tan comunes que ils combinan in mi mente.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Salvatore »

Squall wrote:
cntrational wrote:that's because it's really Italian
But I can read his language far better than Italian. [:)]
Glad to hear it ))
cntrational wrote:that's because it's really Italian
In the footnotes so far we've had to explain 2 words to Italians, 2 to Spaniards, and 7 to Frenchmen...

Based on that and various feedback, it seems Iberophones/Italians understand just fine... now the language needs be brought closer to French.
What are some ways to do this?

edit: made some French-friendly changes
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Squall »

HoskhMatriarch wrote:
For Románica, S will always be a /s/... as for the Z, I like the voiced version a lot personally. Let's have them all voiced
So you're having /d͡z/ without a /t͡s/? That's weird. You can't have all your obstruents (phonetically) voiced.
I think that ancient Greek had ζ, which was pronounced /dz/ or /zd/. In that case, it had /s dz/ without /z ts/.
cntrational wrote:that's because it's really Italian
kanejam wrote:Porque Italian es la lingua la plu conservativa. Los hybridos de las linguas romanicas son tan comunes que yo posso en facer uno sur la plaza; in fato, es tan facil que ecriver en el frances que yo parlo. Mi favorite es la interlingua, mas ils son tan comunes que ils combinan in mi mente.
Let me guess. If it has double consonants, it is Italian, otherwise, it is Spanish. [:D]
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by cntrational »

Attic Greek pronounced ζ as [zd]. It's phonemically /sd/.
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Re: La Lingua Romanica

Post by Salvatore »

The language has been changed dramatically, and now resembles French a lot more.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HkO ... kWwEtVMBg/

Included are discussions on pronunciation, spelling, and conjugations.
-WIP

Some words I'm toying around with:
Spoiler:
qì = here
là = there

nuev
de nuev

voeç
= fois, vez, vece (volta)

placir
suficir
manjer– pur le façre similar al 'manjar'

ciutà
ciutayin
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