Challenge to David J. Peterson
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Challenge to David J. Peterson
David J. Peterson thinks morphemes don't exist. Therefore, I will pay him a billion dollars if he does this:
Make a highly polysynthetic language of the compositionally polysynthetic type. It has to have about as many root words in open classes, which consist of nouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs, and derivational affixes as English or Latin. It also has productive noun + noun compounding, object incorporation, subject incorporation, locative incorporation, instrument incorporation, adverb incorporation, and root serialization, all of unlimited length. Verbs conjugate for the maximum number of categories that WALS recognizes. Now, make me a big table of word forms of every possible form of a single transitive verb that can incorporate anything, both derivationally and inflectionally. That means you have to not only inflect a verb for all 13 categories (which alone will be millions of verb forms), you have to incorporate every possible object, location, instrument, and adverb into it, which includes all the compound words you can make for the objects and locations, and serialize it with every other verb root, into massive poly-root constructions of 10+ verbs and permutations of those verbs. We're looking at probably more word forms than stars in the Milky Way Galaxy for a single verb; effectively and infinite number of forms for a single verb. Do we have a deal?
Make a highly polysynthetic language of the compositionally polysynthetic type. It has to have about as many root words in open classes, which consist of nouns, verbs, adjectives, and adverbs, and derivational affixes as English or Latin. It also has productive noun + noun compounding, object incorporation, subject incorporation, locative incorporation, instrument incorporation, adverb incorporation, and root serialization, all of unlimited length. Verbs conjugate for the maximum number of categories that WALS recognizes. Now, make me a big table of word forms of every possible form of a single transitive verb that can incorporate anything, both derivationally and inflectionally. That means you have to not only inflect a verb for all 13 categories (which alone will be millions of verb forms), you have to incorporate every possible object, location, instrument, and adverb into it, which includes all the compound words you can make for the objects and locations, and serialize it with every other verb root, into massive poly-root constructions of 10+ verbs and permutations of those verbs. We're looking at probably more word forms than stars in the Milky Way Galaxy for a single verb; effectively and infinite number of forms for a single verb. Do we have a deal?
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- Thrice Xandvii
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Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
I'd like to see your half of the deal up front. It'd be fun to see a photo of that much cash.
Last edited by Thrice Xandvii on 27 Mar 2016 09:45, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
I get what you're doing here, but polysynthetic languages aren't even that big of a challenge to a word-and-paradigm analysis: The standard method to deal with such things is you say that a paradigm isn't entirely kept in the brain, but rather is only partially kept there (of the forms you hear most for particular noun and verb roots) and the rest is constructed on-the-fly through a process of analogy with similar paradigms. It's inconvenient and loses much of the elegance and theoretical appeal of word-and-paradigm, but no more so than the gymnastics you have to go through to explain, say, suppletive paradigms in a strict item-and-arrangement analysis.
Also if you want to say "word-and-paradigm analysis is stupid", why not just say that? Why bring Peterson into this?
Also if you want to say "word-and-paradigm analysis is stupid", why not just say that? Why bring Peterson into this?
Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
You might like joining the Conlang Mailing List, challenging him directly, and putting a Master's in Linguistics in his place over there , rather than setting him up as your straw man here.HoskhMatriarch wrote:David J. Peterson thinks morphemes don't exist. Therefore, I will pay him a billion dollars if he does this: [snip] Do we have a deal?
☯ 道可道,非常道
☯ 名可名,非常名
☯ 名可名,非常名
- Creyeditor
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Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
Well, if you are brave enough write him a mail, you should be able to find his e-mail address somewhere on the internet. He's a nice guy, especially to fellow conlangers. If you write a friendly request, his answer will be friendly, I guess.
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Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
HoskhMatriarch,
I get the feeling that while setting up your straw-man you've also stumbled into a bit of green jelly. I know David, I've talked with David, I get the sense that he would smile at you and say something nice and promptly walk away. In the last 5 years, he's created at least 14 languages for no fewer than 9 projects, and written three books. He's most likely not interested in your hollow challenge and as has been said will likely never see it.
I get the feeling that while setting up your straw-man you've also stumbled into a bit of green jelly. I know David, I've talked with David, I get the sense that he would smile at you and say something nice and promptly walk away. In the last 5 years, he's created at least 14 languages for no fewer than 9 projects, and written three books. He's most likely not interested in your hollow challenge and as has been said will likely never see it.
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Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
From all his projects, hasn't he amassed a billion dollars already?
Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
I don't think so. In all seriousness, my guess is that a consultant's fee for a TV program is no more than 1/4 mil p/y. So, give him 4 thousand years or so.Lambuzhao wrote:From all his projects, hasn't he amassed a billion dollars already? [B)]
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Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
HoskMatriarch wrote:David J. Peterson thinks morphemes don't exist.
I see we're still gnawing away at that old bone... I thought this business about morphemes not existing was dealt with in that other thread (about how people are approaching conlanging)?Thrice Xandvii wrote:I'd like to see your half of the deal up front. It'd be fun to see a photo of that much cash.
Anyway, as a matter of interest to all and sundry, our firm (Dewey, Cheatham and Howe, LLC) have just this week end received of our courier from our Harare branch, the requisite sum of front money so that the challenge may now proceed apace.
Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
You say 'one million', and I say 'one billion'masako wrote:I don't think so. In all seriousness, my guess is that a consultant's fee for a TV program is no more than 1/4 mil p/y. So, give him 4 thousand years or so.Lambuzhao wrote:From all his projects, hasn't he amassed a billion dollars already?
Billion, million, mother-loving vigintillion
Let's call the morpheme off!
Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
The reason your challenge is impossible has nothing to do with any problem in Peterson's analysis. The problem is time. He simply won't have enough time in his natural lifespan to coin 100 billion words, or even one billion words. This has nothing to do with whether morphemes exist or not.
(If he does manage to do this, I don't think 1B is nearly enough compensation.)
(If he does manage to do this, I don't think 1B is nearly enough compensation.)
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Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
Well he could write something like a word form generator. I don't know if this counts as morphemes
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Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
That's true. This is actually a pretty easy billion for DP!
- KaiTheHomoSapien
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Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
Maybe if you have really strong faith in morphemes, it doesn't matter if people say morphemes don't exist: you know they exist, and that's what matters. Other people have chosen a life without morphemes and you can only hope it's best for them.
Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
Second verse, (same as) the first?Lambuzhao wrote:You say 'one million', and I say 'one billion'masako wrote:I don't think so. In all seriousness, my guess is that a consultant's fee for a TV program is no more than 1/4 mil p/y. So, give him 4 thousand years or so.Lambuzhao wrote:From all his projects, hasn't he amassed a billion dollars already?
Billion, million, mother-loving vigintillion
Let's call the morpheme off!
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799
Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
first rule of westerns, hostage films, and other things: never ever issue a reward you can't award right out of the gate.HoskhMatriarch wrote:David J. Peterson thinks morphemes don't exist. Therefore, I will pay him a billion dollars if he does this:
Is it irony that this challenge isDo we have a deal?
* coming from someone who has never posted more than whisps of a conlang
* to someone who (as has been stated) has multiple books in bookstores & libraries, and multiple conlangs accessible online and in tv
?
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799
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Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
this is rather dramatic, isn't it
Thrice Xandvii wrote:I'd like to see your half of the deal up front. It'd be fun to see a photo of that much cash.
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Re: Challenge to David J. Peterson
Modicone: Locking this. It's just at the edge flaming and trolling IMO.