Lenga Kagena

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Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

Kagena [k͡xə'ʒena] is my Romlang. First, I made it be an isolate affected by Romance but now I decided to derive it from Vulgar Latin.

Classifications inside sub-sub-branches of language families are rather descriptions than classifications, because innovations easily devide between partially inteligible langauges/dialects. Kagena is though quite easily described as East-Romance. It shares some East-Romance features with Italian and Rumanian. Single voiceless plosives remain voiceless and geminates merge with them. Palatalized velars are post-alveolar affricates instead of dental fricatives. Dental affricates though go palatal, which I think if rather West-Romance.

The most innovative feature of Kagena is rise of ergativity.
Like Rumanian, Kagenian also preserves the dative case, whose function is though changed, and has suffixal definiteness marking.

Consonants
p t t͡ʃ k k͡x <p t c/*ch c k>
b d d͡ʒ~ʒ g <b d g g>
m n ɲ <m n ñ>
f s ʃ x <f s sc/*ch j>
r <r>
ʋ l j<v l y>

*<ch> is used to mark /ʃ/ in french loan words and [ʃ] as an allophone of /t͡ʃ/ word-finally.

Stressed or word-final vowels
i u <í/ý ú>
e o <é/á ó>
a ɒ <è/à ò>
The first letter of front vowels is used after palatals and the latter after velars. After other consonants the letters vary though <é> and <à> are much more common.

Unstressed/non-final vowel
ɪ ʊ <i u>
ə ɵ <a/e o>
Stressed and unstressed vowels do not have transparent correlations.

More or less regular sound changes:
u: -> y: -> i <y>,
[o:] -> ou -> u
/ɔ/ -> o
[e:] -> ei -> ej -> eç -> ex
/ɛ/ -> e
Vowel lenghth is not phonemic in Vulgar latin so u: is an allophone of /u/ and it's somewhat arbitrary when the long allophone is generalized for the whole word.

-> ɪ /#_sC

au -> ɒ
wa/wɔ -> ɒ (usually product of labiovelars)

Labialized velar -> non-labialized /_V[front]

Fronting of dental affricates:
nn -> ɲ
ss -> ʃ -> x
ll -> j

Rise of velar affricate and fricative
j -> x
ss -> ʃ -> x
sk -> xk* -> kx -> k͡x, The same happens for /xk/ derived from e:k

st͡ʃ -> ʃ

Voiced plosives -> fricatives /V_V or _# or _C
β -> ʋ

Different kinds of vowel reductions happen in inflectional paraadigms.
Usually V -> ø /_#
Last edited by Omzinesý on 05 Jul 2016 10:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by shimobaatar »

Omzinesý wrote:Kagena [k͡xə'ʒena] is my Romlang. First, I made it be an isolate affected by Romance but now I decided to derive it from Vulgar Latin.
Where is it meant to be spoken?
Omzinesý wrote: The most innovative feature of Kagena is rise of ergativity.
Like Rumanian, Kagenian also preserves the dative case, whose function is though changed, and has suffixal definiteness marking.
How did ergativity arise? Also, do you mean that the dative case is used differently than in Romanian?
Omzinesý wrote: The first letter of front vowels is used after palatals and the latter after velars. After other consonants the letters vary though <é> and <à> are much more common.
Do they vary due to etymological spellings? Also, why is the language's name not Kagéna?
Omzinesý wrote: Stressed and unstressed vowels do not have transparent correlations.
What do you mean by this?
Omzinesý wrote: Vowel lenghth is not phonemic in Vulgar latin so u: is an allophone of /u/ and it's somewhat arbitrary when the long allophone is generalized for the whole word.
Could you possibly give an example of what you mean here?
Omzinesý wrote: Fronting of dental affricates:
nn -> ɲ
ss -> ʃ -> x
ll -> j
Where's the part about dental affricates? Am I accidentally overlooking something?
Omzinesý wrote: Voiced plosives -> fricatives /V_V or _# or _C
What fricatives do they become, just to be clear? Do those fricatives become phonemic?
Omzinesý wrote: Different kinds of vowel reductions happen in inflectional paraadigms.
Usually V -> ø /_#
Again, just to be clear, is this meant to be V -> ø /_# or V -> Ø /_#?
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

Thank you for your comments. It seems most of them are just what I haven't noticed.
shimobaatar wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:Kagena [k͡xə'ʒena] is my Romlang. First, I made it be an isolate affected by Romance but now I decided to derive it from Vulgar Latin.
Where is it meant to be spoken?
I used to position it on an island near Catalonia. But I'm not sure anymore. Maybe it's spoken somewhere eastwards.
Omzinesý wrote: The most innovative feature of Kagena is rise of ergativity.
Like Rumanian, Kagenian also preserves the dative case, whose function is though changed, and has suffixal definiteness marking.
How did ergativity arise? Also, do you mean that the dative case is used differently than in Romanian?
To put it simple the dative becomes the ergative. That turns the grammar quite much around.
Omzinesý wrote: The first letter of front vowels is used after palatals and the latter after velars. After other consonants the letters vary though <é> and <à> are much more common.
Do they vary due to etymological spellings? Also, why is the language's name not Kagéna?
I still have to think about the orthography. If we follow the one above, yes it should be Kagéna.
Omzinesý wrote: Stressed and unstressed vowels do not have transparent correlations.
What do you mean by this?
There are many sound changes affecting unstressed vowels. Stress can fall on the stem or an affix.
So if you know the stressed vowel of the stem you cannot know what vowel the unstressed stem has. Both stems must be learnt. That's a feature I took from Rumantsch.
Omzinesý wrote: Vowel lenghth is not phonemic in Vulgar latin so u: is an allophone of /u/ and it's somewhat arbitrary when the long allophone is generalized for the whole word.
Could you possibly give an example of what you mean here?
Open syllables had phonetically long vowel in Vulgar Latin, I guess.

Pre-Kagena had the verb poter 'to be able' inflected:
Potu -> putu
Pots -> pots
Pote -> pute
Some forms have /u/, others /o/. Analogically all forms have /u/, but it can differ which form analogy has chosen for the base.
Omzinesý wrote: Fronting of dental affricates:
nn -> ɲ
ss -> ʃ -> x
ll -> j
Where's the part about dental affricates? Am I accidentally overlooking something?
Gattus -> gatsu -> gass could actually be interesting.
Omzinesý wrote: Voiced plosives -> fricatives /V_V or _# or _C
What fricatives do they become, just to be clear? Do those fricatives become phonemic?
Nope. They are phonetic. I should have indicated it better. That's basically what happens on Spanish.
Omzinesý wrote: Different kinds of vowel reductions happen in inflectional paraadigms.
Usually V -> ø /_#
Again, just to be clear, is this meant to be V -> ø /_# or V -> Ø /_#?
It should be zero. You are right.
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by shimobaatar »

Omzinesý wrote:Thank you for your comments. It seems most of them are just what I haven't noticed.
My pleasure. I'm glad I could help you find things you hadn't noticed.
Omzinesý wrote: I used to position it on an island near Catalonia. But I'm not sure anymore. Maybe it's spoken somewhere eastwards.
Omzinesý wrote: I still have to think about the orthography. If we follow the one above, yes it should be Kagéna.
That's OK. No need to rush any decisions.
Omzinesý wrote:To put it simple the dative becomes the ergative. That turns the grammar quite much around.
I look forward to hearing more about how the language became ergative!
Omzinesý wrote:There are many sound changes affecting unstressed vowels. Stress can fall on the stem or an affix.
So if you know the stressed vowel of the stem you cannot know what vowel the unstressed stem has. Both stems must be learnt. That's a feature I took from Rumantsch.
Omzinesý wrote:Open syllables had phonetically long vowel in Vulgar Latin, I guess.

Pre-Kagena had the verb poter 'to be able' inflected:
Potu -> putu
Pots -> pots
Pote -> pute
Some forms have /u/, others /o/. Analogically all forms have /u/, but it can differ which form analogy has chosen for the base.
Omzinesý wrote: Nope. They are phonetic. I should have indicated it better. That's basically what happens on Spanish.
Oh, I see. Thanks for the clarifications.
Omzinesý wrote:Gattus -> gatsu -> gass could actually be interesting.
Indeed!
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

Nouns

Kagen has two or three genders, depending if the pluralia tantum nouns are seen having the plural gender. There are two cases the agentive, which derives from the Latin dative, and the patientive, which derives from the Latin nominative. Only definite singular nouns have the gender distinction explicit.

Code: Select all

 
            Masc          Fem        Pl
Indef      un              an [ən]   -s/-es [əs] 
Def.Pat   -u              -a           -i
Def.Ag    -o               -e           -i


The development is similar to that of Rumanian. A demonstrative, l- and c- series in Kagen, is cliticized to the end of the stem. The vocalic affixes are preserved before them. In absolute word ends vowels are usually dropped. The demonstratives can still appear after nouns but the pure vocalic stem does in Modern Kagen.

Pluralia tantum nouns are common in Kagen. Most nouns that can be semantically considered plural and used to end -ia or -ius in Latin are plural in Kagen. One example is famils famili. Another are country names that are plurals of inhabitants. Améjrica 'America', améjric 'American' Améjrici 'The US'
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

I'll start explaining the verb system. This post handles the perfect.

Real Romance (and Germanic) languages formed their perfect from a possessive construction.
Ego librum scriptum habeo. 'I have a book written.' -> 'I have written a book.' (I've never really studied Latin so that's just a guess how the could be.)

Kagen derives it from the older possessive construction that uses the dative. Kagen still uses the possessive construction in some contexts.
Mihi liber scribtus est.

The first and second persons still preserved the old simple perfect forms. I'll use amare as an example because it's a simple verb.
amavi -> amav -> amàu 'I loved'
amavistis -> amàuss 'you loved'

The third person also lost the auxiliary in the process of the form becoming more finite.
Loi la amata est. 'He has her loved.' -> Loi la amà. 'He loved her.'

The construction very much resembles the Latin passive perfect.
amatus sum 'I was loved.'
amatus estis 'You were loved.'

The first person also lost the auxiliary but a pronoun was fused to the stem.
amatus sum -> amà io -> amài 'I was loved.'
amatus estis -> amàstis -> amàss 'You loved.'

If either the subject or the object is 1st or 2nd person, it is coded in the verb.
If both are 1st or 2nd persons a different analogical form is used.
amàssu 'I loved you.' 'You were loved by me.'
amàssi 'You loved me.' 'I was loved by you.'

Although some of the old verb inflection is preserved, dative pronouns start to be used first for transitive subjects and later for all agents also in 1st and 2nd persons.

Slowly the same endings spread to intransitive verbs too, so that the old active endings code unergative verbs and the old passive endings unaccusative verbs.
Mortu 'I killed.' Morti 'I died.'
Mortéuss 'You killed.' Mortéss 'You died.'
Loi mort 'He killed.' Il mort 'He died.'
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

Omzinesý wrote:
Consonants
p t t͡ʃ k k͡x <p t c/*ch c k>
b d d͡ʒ~ʒ g <b d g g>
m n ɲ <m n ñ>
f s ʃ x <f s sc/*ch j>
r <r>
ʋ l j<v l y>

*<ch> is used to mark /ʃ/ in french loan words and [ʃ] as an allophone of /t͡ʃ/ word-finally.
Revised orthography.

p t t͡ʃ k k͡x <p t c c k>
b d d͡ʒ~ʒ g <b d g g>
m n ɲ <m n ñ>
f s ʃ x <f s ch kh>
r <r>
ʋ l j<v l y>

<c> is pronounced /t͡ʃ/, and <g> /d͡ʒ~ʒ/ before front vowels <i>, <e>, and <a>
<c> is ponounced /k/ and <g> /g/ before back vowels <u> and <o>, and front vowels written with two dots <ï>, <ë>, <ä>.
The fricatives /ʃ / and /x/ are written <ch> and <kh> respectively.
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

Hungarian had sound change tj -> c͡ç. I make it also happen in Kagèna. So it corresponds to Italian <z>. Then c͡ç -> kx / _V [+front]. So it merges with kx that derives from sk before front vowels.
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

Sound changes revised

I present the sound changes in some groups chronologically so that 1 precedes 2 etc.

1. First palatalization in Proto-Romance
k -> t͡ʃ / _V[+front]
g -> d͡ʒ / _V[+front]

2. Loss of labialization
skʷ -> k͡x
kʷ -> k
gʷ -> g

Formation of velar affricate from sk
sk -> k͡x / _V[-front]

Second palatalization
sk -> ʃ / _V[+front]
tj -> c͡ç / _V[+front]
t -> c͡ç / _i

3. Loss of j after palatals
j -> Ø / C[+palatal]_


4. Velarisation of some palatals before front vowels*
c͡ç -> k͡x / _V[-front]
ʃ -> x / _V[-front]

5. Lenition of voiced plosives
C [+voice][+plosive] -> [fricative] / everywhere but word-initially and after a nasal

6. Final lenition of voiceless affricates
k͡x/c͡ç -> x / _#
t͡ʃ -> ʃ / _#

* This makes k͡x and c͡ç allophones of the same phoneme. x and ʃ are also allophones, but 4. separates them.

My problem still is that I have very few ʃ/x's.
Spanish has the sound change that makes ss and ʒ all x, but Kagenian keeps them separate. Where to get more ʃ/x's.?
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Ælfwine »

The easiest way to get more x is to lenite intervocalic or word final k. Cf. OHG "buch" = English "book." Also in some dialects, Spanish j > x. Usually these sound changes would be apart of.a wider chain shift, otherwise you could simply simplify /kx/ in some positions. EDIT: looks like you already have that.
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

Ælfwine wrote:The easiest way to get more x is to lenite intervocalic or word final k. Cf. OHG "buch" = English "book." Also in some dialects, Spanish j > x. Usually these sound changes would be apart of.a wider chain shift, otherwise you could simply simplify /kx/ in some positions. EDIT: looks like you already have that.
Yes I have it word-finally. But in other environments they are rare.
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Solarius »

Where is Lenga Kagena spoken? You could get those sounds by loanwords.
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Re: Lenga Kagena

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Solarius wrote:Where is Lenga Kagena spoken? You could get those sounds by loanwords.
Somewhere in Mediterranean, I think.
That's possible.
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Re: Lenga Kagena

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Verbs revised:

The perfect is the innovation center of the verb system. 1st and 2nd person forms are derived from the old perfect, but the third person form is derived from a passive construction: X-dat Y-nom/acc V-ptcpl 'X has Y Ved'.

The forms derived from the old perfect:
delevi [de’levi] -> delei [d’lei] ‘I destroyed’
delés (analogical to the present) ‘You destroyed)’

The third person:
deletus (es) -> delé ‘He (was) destroyed)’

òmo (è) delé cas 'The man has a house destroyed.' -> 'The man has destroyed a house.' òmo is the dative -> ergative. cas is the nominative -> absolutive

Any of the arguments can be omitted.
òmo delé 'The man destroyed.'
Cas delé 'The house is destroyed.'

The first and second person have also passive forms, if they appear as objects:
deletus sum -> delé su -> deleu 'I was destroyed/ X destroyed me.'
deletus es -> delé es -> delés (identical to the "active") 'You were destroyed/X destroyed you.'

Analogical combinations:
deleis ‘I destroyed you’
deleus ‘You destroyed me.’
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Re: Lenga Kagena

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The present:

deleo -> delio -> deli ‘I destroy’
Analogically to the perfect: delu ‘I am destroyed/ X destroys me.’

deles -> dels ‘You destroy/ are destroyed.’
delet -> dele -> del(e*) ‘Destroys, (is destroyed).’

And crossreferencing:
delis 'I destroy you.'
delus 'You destroy me'

* e still sometimes appears in the third person form.
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

The future derives from the Romance conjunctive present. It still resists object agreement.

delam -> dela
delas -> delas [‘deləs]
delat [‘delət]

To be honets, I just don't know how to make it have object agreement.
Maybe dela+u -> delau -> delo
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

Historically there is also the imperfect, but it's usually takes over by compound imperfective/progressive forms.

delebam -> deléba
delebas -> deléps
delebat -> delept -> delép
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

Compound imperfective/progressive forms

They are formed like in Spanish. The auxiliary is tar (Latis stare) that takes both subject and object agreements. The main verb is in the gerund form -an/-en which is actually derives from the present participle, not Latin gerund. Gerund is just the name I use of it because it formally resembles Latin gerund.

delentus -> delén
amantus -> amán

Present
tai, tau
tas
ta

tais
taus

Future
tei, teu
tes
tet

teis
teus

Imperfect
tabi, tabu
taps ~ tòps
tap ~ tòp ~ tò

tabis
tabus
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

I am changing the phonological history again.

The pre-language has the basic 7-vowel system.
Mid-high /e/ and /o/ start rising towards high /i/ and /u/.
They push /i/ and /u/ to "extra high". (I guess Japanese has them.)
Consonants before the "extra high" vowels are affricated/fricated. (That happened in Bantu.)
Later the pre-language high and mid-high vowels merge, creating a 5-vowel system.

Vulgar Latin had:
/p/ /t/ /tʃ/ /k/ /kw/
Kagenian should have:
/p/ /t/ /tʃ/ /k/ /kx/
/ʃ/ /x/

How would the affrication/frication cause that?
Im especially interested in /tʃ/. How would it be affected?
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Re: Lenga Kagena

Post by Omzinesý »

Kagen could actually derive from Greek loan word theos

teos -> tios (e -> i /_V) -> tCo (ti -> tC /_V) -> kxo (assimilation of POA) -> kxa (sporadic)

Ka is their marine god.

Gen derives from Latin word genus.

So Kagen means something like: of divine birth
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