Visigothic 1.0

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Visigothic 1.0

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 00:00

Introduction

After purchasing and reading parts of The Ancient Languages of Europe, edited by Roger D. Woodard, I had the idea to make a modern descendant of Gothic, as one of the most interesting parts of the book I've read so far was on Gothic. I mentioned my idea in this post, and was encouraged to pursue it further by qwed117, elemtilas, and Ælfwine. Special thanks go to Ælfwine, as we've been communicating about our ideas for Gothic descendants since then.

Because of my familiarity with and education in Spanish, I decided that the language would be heavily influenced by Spanish and called Visigothic, spoken by modern descendants of the Visigoths in a microstate successor to the Visigothic Kingdom surrounded by Spain, near Toledo.

For now, this is just a place for me to put down my ideas for Visigothic so far. Very little, if anything at all, will be set in stone. The main resources I've been using, other than the book I mentioned, are Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Verbix, and this website. Please point me to more resources on Gothic if you can.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 00:00

Overview

Visigothic is an East Germanic language spoken by approximately 100,000 people in Visigothia, also known as the Visigothic Kingdom, a constitutional monarchy and microstate surrounded by the Spanish Autonomous Community of Castilla-La Mancha. The capital of Visigothia is Toledo. Visigothic is one of the two official languages of Visigothia, the other being Spanish, and an official language of Castilla-La Mancha. It is also spoken by ethnic Visigoths around the world, particularly in the United States and several Caribbean nations and territories.

Visigothic is a descendant of Gothic and the only surviving East Germanic language. Overall, it is morphologically fusional, nominative-accusative in alignment, its word order is mainly SVO, it has prepositions, and it is generally head-final. It has two cases for nouns and adjectives, although pronouns have four, and multiple declensions for nouns. There are two grammatical genders, although a third is sometimes preserved in pronouns. Both definite and indefinite articles are used. In verbs, there are three tenses, two aspects, three numbers, two voices, and five moods. Verbs have multiple conjugations as well.
Last edited by shimobaatar on Wed 17 Aug 2016, 05:20, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 00:00

Phonology and Orthography

Phonemic Inventory

/p b t d k g~ŋ/ <p b~v t d c~qu g~gu>
/f θ s x/ <f z~c s j~g>
/t͡ʃ/ <ch>
/m n ɲ/ <m n ñ>
/r/ <r>
/l ʎ~ʝ/ <l ll>

/i e a/ <i~y e a>
/u o/ <u o>

All vowels and sonorants are fully voiced, as are /b d g~ŋ/. /p t k f θ s x t͡ʃ/ are fully voiceless. /p b m/ are bilabial, /f/ is labiodental, /t d θ/ are dental, /s n r l/ are alveolar, /t͡ʃ/ is palato-alveolar, /ɲ ʎ~ʝ/ are palatal, and /k g~ŋ x/ are velar. /i e a/ are front and /u o/ are back.

Phonotactics

(C)(L)V(C)

C = any consonant
L = any rhotic or lateral
V = any vowel
C = any consonant

More coming soon.

Allophony

Voiceless stops and affricates are aspirated initially and in stressed syllables. Otherwise, they are voiced intervocalically and next to sonorants. Voiceless fricatives are also voiced intervocalically and next to sonorants. Voiced stops are realized as [β ð ɣ] intervocalically and next to sonorants. In those environments, /θ x/ merge with /d g/ for most speakers.

/m/ becomes labiodental when preceding /f/. /s n r l/ become dental when adjacent to /t d θ/. /k g~ŋ x/ are slightly palatalized when adjacent to /i e/, and slightly labialized when adjacent to /u o/.

/i u/ are [j w] before /i e a u o/ and after /e a o/. [j] is inserted after /e/ and before /a o/, and [w] is inserted after /o/ and before /e a/.

/i e a u o/ become [ɪ ɛ ɐ ʊ ɔ] when followed by multiple consonants or when followed by one consonant and a word boundary. Vowels are nasalized when followed by a nasal and another consonant or a nasal and a word boundary.

The pairs /g~ŋ/ and /ʎ~ʝ/ are in free variation.

For some speakers, /t͡ʃ/ is typically [ʃ]. Some speakers also pronounce /f/ as [ɸ] and /x/ as uvular [χ] or glottal [h].

/r/ is a trill intervocalically, initially, and when adjacent to sonorants and sibilants. Elsewhere, it is a tap.

More coming soon.

Prosody

The initial syllable of a root is stressed. This is usually the initial syllable of a word, unless a prefix is present. Prefixes and infixes are always unstressed, as are many pronouns and content words. If multiple roots come together to form a compound word, only the first root is stressed.

Orthography

In the pairs <c~qu g~gu z~c j~g>, the first letter is used before <a u o> and the second is used before <i e>. Before <i e>, [kw gw] are spelled <qü gü>.

[j] is spelled <y> word initially, word finally, and intervocalically.

The spelling of /b/ is determined etymologically. Historical instances of /v/ are spelled <v>, whereas historical instances of /b/ are spelled <b>.

<h> is silent unless part of the digraph <ch>. Historical /h/ is written between vowels and word-initially.
Last edited by shimobaatar on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 15:44, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 00:33

Diachronic Phonology

iː eː ɛː aː ɔː oː uː > i e ɛ a ɔ o u
mb nd ŋg > mː nː ŋː
Cː > C
ŋ > g
i > j / (C,#)_V
u > w / (C,#)_V
z > s
θ > s / _t, t_
θ > t / _C, C_
θ > s
kʷ gʷ ʍ > ku gu hu / _C
kʷ gʷ ʍ > kw gw hw
w > v / V_V
k g kw gw > t͡s ʒ k g / _(i,e)
kj gj tj dj > t͡s ʒ t͡ʃ d͡ʒ
(C)Cs > (C)Cɛs / _#
CC > CCɛ / _#
sC > ɛsC / #_
ɛ ɔ > e o
ˈi ˈu > e o
i u > e o / _(C)#
ʒ d͡ʒ > ʃ t͡ʃ
t͡s ʃ > θ x
f > h / #_(i,e,a)
x > h / #_(i,e)
h > Ø

More coming soon.
Last edited by shimobaatar on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 23:32, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by Clio » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 04:10

shimobaatar wrote:/g~ŋ/ [is] in free variation.
How did that arise?
shimobaatar wrote:Historical instances of /v/ are spelled <v>
Did Gothic have /v/?
shimobaatar wrote:i u > e o / _(C)(C)#
Just a nitpick, but I think you've already excreted an /ɛ/ after all word-final consonant clusters, so this rule could really just read "i u > e o / _(C)#."
shimobaatar wrote:More coming soon.
Do you plan on having any vowel-breaking, like in Spanish?

As for more resources, you may want to look into William H. Bennett's Introduction to the Gothic Language, which discusses in good detail the historical development of Gothic. It's been a while since I've looked at that book, so I don't know how useful it'd be to you, but it could be worth checking out at a library. I'll see if I happen to find any more bibliography over the next few days (which will depend on whether I get around to reading a few books of my own, so no promises).
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by Creyeditor » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 09:21

shimobaatar wrote:Voiceless stops and sibilants are aspirated initially and in stressed syllables. Otherwise, they are voiced intervocalically and next to sonorants. Voiced stops are realized as [β ð ɣ] intervocalically and next to sonorants.
Nice synchronic chain shift [:)]
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 15:20

Clio wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:/g~ŋ/ [is] in free variation.
How did that arise?
Currently, my explanation is that once [ŋg] became [ŋ], the velar nasal was phonemic only in a very limited number of words, so it merged with /g/.
Clio wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:Historical instances of /v/ are spelled <v>
Did Gothic have /v/?
No, but it had /w/, which became [v] intervocalically and /u/ [w] elsewhere. That might change, though.
Clio wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:i u > e o / _(C)(C)#
Just a nitpick, but I think you've already excreted an /ɛ/ after all word-final consonant clusters, so this rule could really just read "i u > e o / _(C)#."
Whoops, you're right. Nice catch! I'll edit that now.
Clio wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:More coming soon.
Do you plan on having any vowel-breaking, like in Spanish?
I've toyed with that idea in the past, but not at the moment, no.
Clio wrote: As for more resources, you may want to look into William H. Bennett's Introduction to the Gothic Language, which discusses in good detail the historical development of Gothic. It's been a while since I've looked at that book, so I don't know how useful it'd be to you, but it could be worth checking out at a library. I'll see if I happen to find any more bibliography over the next few days (which will depend on whether I get around to reading a few books of my own, so no promises).
Thanks for the recommendation, and your comments! No worries at all if you don't get around to it.

Creyeditor wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:Voiceless stops and sibilants are aspirated initially and in stressed syllables. Otherwise, they are voiced intervocalically and next to sonorants. Voiced stops are realized as [β ð ɣ] intervocalically and next to sonorants.
Nice synchronic chain shift [:)]
Thank you! I've considered having all the voiceless fricatives become voiced intervocalically and next to sonorants as well.
Last edited by shimobaatar on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 17:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 16:41

Nouns

Nominal morphology can be described as fusional. There are two cases, nominative and oblique. Gothic's vocative, genitive, and dative cases have fallen out of use in nouns. There are two grammatical genders, masculine and feminine. Gothic's neuter gender has largely merged with the masculine. There are also two numbers, singular and plural. Visigothic has nine noun declensions. Four are strong, three are weak, and two are minor.

The language is nominative-accusative. Therefore, the nominative case is used when a noun is the experiencer of an intransitive verb or when it's the agent of a transitive verb. The nominative can also be used for vocative expressions.

The oblique case is used when a noun is the patient of a transitive verb or when it's part of a prepositional phrase. Like the nominative, the oblique can be used for vocative expressions, although this usage is not as common as it is for the nominative. The genitive and dative cases have been replaced by the oblique case preceded by the prepositions "af" and "du", respectively. These prepositions combine with articles.

The -a Declension

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. -e -os
OBL. -e -anes
Spoiler:
dague masc. "day"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. dague dagos
OBL. dague daganes
uorde masc. "word"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. uorde uordos
OBL. uorde uordanes
lefe masc. "loaf, bread" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. lefe lebos
OBL. lefe lebanes
hobite masc. "head" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. hobite hobidos
OBL. hobite hobidanes
seve masc. "servant"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. seve sevos
OBL. seve sevanes
ecnive masc. "knee"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. ecnive ecnivos
OBL. ecnive ecnivanes
treve masc. "tree, wood"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. treve trevos
OBL. treve trevanes
halle masc. "army"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. halle hallos
OBL. halle hallanes
herche masc. "herdsman, shepherd"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. herche herchos
OBL. herche herchanes
coñe masc. "race"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. coñe coños
OBL. coñe coñanes
ambache masc. "service, ministry"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. ambache ambachos
OBL. ambache ambachanes
gaverche masc. "peace"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. gaverche gaverchos
OBL. gaverche gaverchanes
gavie masc. "region, district, land, environment" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. gavie goyos
OBL. gavie goyanes
havie masc. "hay" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. havie hoyos
OBL. havie hoyanes
toye masc. "deed, work"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. toye toyos
OBL. toye toyanes
This declension contains masculine nouns. The oblique singular ending was innovated by analogy with the nominative singular ending, and the final of the nominative singular ending was lost by analogy with the oblique singular ending. Formerly neuter nouns now decline the same way as masculine nouns. This declension contains nouns from the former -a and -ja declensions. The [j] of the -ja declension endings has been reanalyzed as part of the noun roots. Some nouns have different stems in the singular and plural.

The -o Declension

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. -a -os
OBL. -a -os
Spoiler:
heba fem. "gift"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. heba hebos
OBL. heba hebos
braza fem. "strife, fight, wrestling match"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. braza brazos
OBL. braza brazos
sebia fem. "relationship, kinship"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. sebia sebios
OBL. sebia sebios
soña fem. "truth"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. soña soños
OBL. soña soños
baña fem. "band, fetter"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. baña baños
OBL. baña baños
mavia fem. "girl, maiden" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. mavia moyos
OBL. mavia moyos
sevia fem. "maidservant" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. sevia soyos
OBL. sevia soyos
This declension contains feminine nouns. This declension contains nouns from the former -ō and -jō declensions. The nominative singular ending of the -jō declension was changed by analogy with the nominative singular ending of the -ō declension and the oblique singular ending of the -jō declension. The [j] of the -jō declension endings has been reanalyzed as part of the noun roots. Some nouns have different stems in the singular and plural.

The -i Declension

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. -e -es
OBL. -e -ines
Spoiler:
gaste masc. "guest, stranger"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. gaste gastes
OBL. gaste gastines
quene fem. "wife"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. quene quenes
OBL. quene quenines
drose masc. "fall"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. drose droses
OBL. drose drosines
bore masc. "child, son"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. bore bores
OBL. bore borines
noe masc. "corpse" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. noe naves
OBL. noe navines
brotfate masc. "groom, bridegroom" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. brotfate brotfades
OBL. brotfate brotfadines
sote masc. "sacrifice" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. sote sodes
OBL. sote sodines
estate masc. "place, location" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. estate estades
OBL. estate estadines
ostase fem. "resurrection"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. ostase ostases
OBL. ostase ostasines
arbete fem. "labor" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. arbete arbedes
OBL. arbete arbedines
dete fem. "deed" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. dete dedes
OBL. dete dedines
hahete fem. "joy" (stem alteration)

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. hahete hahedes
OBL. hahete hahedines
heme fem. "village"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. heme hemes
OBL. heme hemines
lesine fem. "doctrine"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. lesine lesines
OBL. lesine lesinines
This declension contains masculine and feminine nouns. They are declined the same way. The oblique singular ending was innovated by analogy with the nominative singular ending, and the final of the nominative singular ending was lost by analogy with the oblique singular ending. Some nouns have different stems in the singular and plural.

The -u Declension

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. -o -os
OBL. -o -unes
Spoiler:
sono masc. "son"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. sono sonos
OBL. sono sonunes
heho masc. "cattle, wealth, property"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. heho hehos
OBL. heho hehunes
hero masc. "goad, sting"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. hero heros
OBL. hero herunes
leso masc. "cider, fruit wine, fermented drink"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. leso lesos
OBL. leso lesunes
This declension contains masculine nouns. Formerly neuter nouns are now declined the same way as masculine nouns. The final of the nominative singular ending was lost by analogy with the oblique singular ending. The [j] of the nominative plural endings has been lost by analogy with the other endings.

The -an Declension

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. -a -anes
OBL. -an -anes
Spoiler:
goma masc. "man"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. goma gomanes
OBL. goman gomanes
herta masc. "heart"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. herta hertanes
OBL. hertan hertanes
uata masc. "water"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. uata uatanes
OBL. uatan uatanes
nama masc. "name"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. nama namanes
OBL. naman namanes
This declension contains masculine nouns. Formerly neuter nouns are now declined the same way as masculine nouns.

The -on Declension

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. -o -ones
OBL. -on -ones
Spoiler:
togo fem. "tongue"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. togo togones
OBL. togon togones
This declension contains feminine nouns. This declension contains nouns from the former -ōn declension.

The -in Declension

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. -e -ines
OBL. -en -ines
Spoiler:
frode fem. "wisdom"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. frode frodines
OBL. froden frodines
This declension contains feminine nouns. This declension contains nouns from the former -ein declension.

The -r Declension

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. -ar -ellos
OBL. -ar -erunes
Spoiler:
suestar fem. "sister"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. suestar suestellos
OBL. suestar suesterunes
brosar masc. "brother"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. brosar brosellos
OBL. brosar broserunes
hadar masc. "father"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. hadar hadellos
OBL. hadar haderunes
dotar fem. "daughter"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. dotar dotellos
OBL. dotar doterunes
This declension contains masculine and feminine nouns, which are declined identically. The initial [e] in the plural forms was added to ease pronunciation.

The -nd Declension

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. -e -es
OBL. -e -es
Spoiler:
frechone masc. "friend"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. frechone frechones
OBL. frechone frechones
reque masc. "ruler, lord"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. reque reques
OBL. reque reques
borgue fem. "castle, fort, city"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. borgue borgues
OBL. borgue borgues
menote masc. "month"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. menote menotes
OBL. menote menotes
uetuode masc. "witness"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. uetuode uetuodes
OBL. uetuode uetuodes
metate fem. "measure"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. metate metates
OBL. metate metates
nate fem. "night"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. nate nates
OBL. nate nates
dolte fem. "feast, celebration"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. dolte doltes
OBL. dolte doltes
uete fem. "thing"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. uete uetes
OBL. uete uetes
ale fem. "temple"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. ale ales
OBL. ale ales
broste fem. "breast, chest"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. broste brostes
OBL. broste brostes
meluque fem. "milk"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. meluque meluques
OBL. meluque meluques
esporde fem. "racecourse"

Code: Select all

     SG. PL.
NOM. esporde espordes
OBL. esporde espordes
This declension contains masculine and feminine nouns, which are declined identically. The oblique singular ending was innovated by analogy with the nominative singular ending, and the final of the nominative singular ending was lost by analogy with the oblique singular ending. This declension contains nouns from the former -nd and root noun declensions.
Last edited by shimobaatar on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 19:39, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by Zythros Jubi » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 18:13

How did Visigothic Kingdom survive, instead of being incorporated into Spain? Besides, I considered setting in Azores, Madeira and Extremadura instead.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 18:39

Zythros Jubi wrote:How did Visigothic Kingdom survive, instead of being incorporated into Spain? Besides, I considered setting in Azores, Madeira and Extremadura instead.
I haven't worked out the exact history of the speakers of Visigothic yet, just like the language is still being developed. For all I know, I may change my mind have them live in a small Autonomous Community of Spain centered around Toledo. Currently, though, I'm still trying to think of a way to justify a very small Visigothic Kingdom surviving into the modern day. As for your location suggestions, you can set your own Gothic descendent wherever you want, but I'm keeping mine where I have it now.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by All4Ɇn » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 18:45

This looks really interesting! Hope to see more
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 19:24

All4Ɇn wrote:This looks really interesting! Hope to see more
Thank you! [:D]

By the way, I forgot to mention above that suggestions regarding how the Visigothic Kingdom might have survived into the present day are very much welcome.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 20:16

Very cool :D Noun declensions are my favorite part of morphology, so can't wait to see some fully declined nouns.

I've always wondered what it would've been like if the Visigoths had stayed in Spain and how the languages might have developed. :)
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by Ælfwine » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 20:40

shimobaatar wrote:Introduction

After purchasing and reading parts of The Ancient Languages of Europe, edited by Roger D. Woodard, I had the idea to make a modern descendant of Gothic, as one of the most interesting parts of the book I've read so far was on Gothic. I mentioned my idea in this post, and was encouraged to pursue it further by qwed117, elemtilas, and Ælfwine. Special thanks go to Ælfwine, as we've been communicating about our ideas for Gothic descendants since then.

Because of my familiarity with and education in Spanish, I decided that the language would be heavily influenced by Spanish and called Visigothic, spoken by modern descendants of the Visigoths in a microstate successor to the Visigothic Kingdom surrounded by Spain, near Toledo.

For now, this is just a place for me to put down my ideas for Visigothic so far. Very little, if anything at all, will be set in stone. The main resources I've been using, other than the book I mentioned, are Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Verbix, and this website. Please point me to more resources on Gothic if you can.
Looks very good so far!

Good Gothic resources:
As I am currently working on Varangian and my Iberian Gothic is more or less a side project to that, I won't be posting anything until much later when I have made some significant headway. Personally I am going with a much more Catalonian influence.
Last edited by Ælfwine on Tue 16 Aug 2016, 20:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by felipesnark » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 20:51

Popping in to say that this is really cool! I look forward to seeing more!
Visit my website for my blogs and information on my conlangs including Shonkasika: http://felipesnark.weebly.com/ It's a work in progress!
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by All4Ɇn » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 21:57

shimobaatar wrote:
All4Ɇn wrote:This looks really interesting! Hope to see more
Thank you! [:D]

By the way, I forgot to mention above that suggestions regarding how the Visigothic Kingdom might have survived into the present day are very much welcome.
Well one idea I have is that maybe it hasn't continually existed the entire time. Maybe it was at one point just a part of Spain but because of the area's united socio-linguistic community it revolted against Spain and eventually won its independence
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 23:10

KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:Very cool :D Noun declensions are my favorite part of morphology, so can't wait to see some fully declined nouns.

I've always wondered what it would've been like if the Visigoths had stayed in Spain and how the languages might have developed. :)
Thanks! I'm a fan of noun declension, too. I've added examples based on those given by Wikipedia for some of the declensions, and I'm currently working on examples for the rest of them.

Hopefully my version of what would've happened will continue to interest you!
Ælfwine wrote: Looks very good so far!

Good Gothic resources:
As I am currently working on Varangian and my Iberian Gothic is more or less a side project to that, I won't be posting anything until much later when I have made some significant headway. Personally I am going with a much more Catalonian influence.
Thank you, and I very much appreciate the list of resources. I'll have to check those out.

Well, I look forward to seeing more of any of your projects. I'm not very familiar with Catalan, so I'll probably steer away from having it influence Visigothic too much. I don't know if it even should influence it that much, given the geographic location of Visigothia. That's not to say I'll ignore it completely, though.
felipesnark wrote:Popping in to say that this is really cool! I look forward to seeing more!
Thank you!
All4Ɇn wrote: Well one idea I have is that maybe it hasn't continually existed the entire time. Maybe it was at one point just a part of Spain but because of the area's united socio-linguistic community it revolted against Spain and eventually won its independence
Interesting idea! I'll definitely have to keep this in mind.

I'm also going to look further into how real-world microstates have kept their independence.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by Frislander » Tue 16 Aug 2016, 23:33

All4Ɇn wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:
All4Ɇn wrote:This looks really interesting! Hope to see more
Thank you! [:D]

By the way, I forgot to mention above that suggestions regarding how the Visigothic Kingdom might have survived into the present day are very much welcome.
Well one idea I have is that maybe it hasn't continually existed the entire time. Maybe it was at one point just a part of Spain but because of the area's united socio-linguistic community it revolted against Spain and eventually won its independence
This of course follows the great examples set by the Basques and Catalans, proud peoples who through integrity, tenacity and sheer national pride have managed to wrest themselves from the tyrannical clutches of their former Castillian overlords and forge new paths as independent nations... :mrgreen:
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by shimobaatar » Wed 17 Aug 2016, 00:05

Frislander wrote:This of course follows the great examples set by the Basques and Catalans, proud peoples who through integrity, tenacity and sheer national pride have managed to wrest themselves from the tyrannical clutches of their former Castillian overlords and forge new paths as independent nations... :mrgreen:
Indeed, I thought something similar.

The post on nouns has now been updated with examples for every declension. The examples are all the nouns listed on this Wikipedia page under the sections on noun declension.
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Re: Visigothic 1.0

Post by Dormouse559 » Wed 17 Aug 2016, 00:33

shimobaatar wrote:I'm also going to look further into how real-world microstates have kept their independence.
Most of Europe's modern microstates gained and kept their freedom through some combination of diplomacy, good luck and isolated locations. San Marino might be a place to look, being completely surrounded by another country; at different times, it gained the favor of Napoleon and one of the leaders in Italy's unification, both of whom allowed it to remain sovereign.

I look forward to hearing more about the language, and I'm sure the Visigothic Kingdom has had a colorful history, so it'll be neat to see that fleshed out.
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