Tyrbis ~ Bsarhus - a PIE lang

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Omzinesý
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Tyrbis ~ Bsarhus - a PIE lang

Post by Omzinesý »

Bsargus ~ Tərbi is my Indo-European a-posteriori lang.

I'm currently rewriting it.

Phonology and its derivation from PIE
Vowels
Consonants

Morphology
Nouns (still incomplete)


Bsargus is a Centum language.
Bsargus shares many sound changes, and even grammar with Germanic. One could speak about Bsargo-Germanic, like one speak about Balto-Slavic.
The most striking similarities partial Grimm's law and strong verbs.

Bsargus is spoken in Southern Russia, northwards from Caucasus. Its Southern Dialect is spoken on northern slopes of Caucasus and shares many features with Caucasian languages (implosives and some ergativity).

Bsargus is written with Cyrillic alphabet. A Romance orthography was created for it in thirties, but it's not used much.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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I'm making a new a posteriori PIE lang.

Some phonological changes:
PIE 'aspirated voiced' series of stops becomes plain voiced, like in Germanic. I actually think this was how PIE was.
bh dh gh -> b d g

The voiceless series stays voiceless.
p t k -> p t k

The 'voiced' series is devoiced and merges with the voiceless series.
b d g -> p t k

The new voiced series lenitates to fricatives/semivowels between vowels. That corresponds to the state Castellan Spanish.
Nasal + voiced stop clusters become voiced stops, creating an opposition between the fricatives/semivowels.
mb nd ng -> b d g

Fricatives/semivowels sporadically appear also word-initially.


Bsarkus is a kentum language.
In PIE velars (k gh g) preceding *o became labio-velarized and stops preceding *e became palatalized. Centum languages phomized the labiovelarization. Different kinds of vowel shifts have happened in Indo-European langs.

So Bsarkus system of sounds deriving from stops is:
p t k kʷ
b d g gʷ
β ð ɣ w

----

There is a tendency for Vs, Vl and Vr to changes places in metathesis to sV, lV, and rV.
When s gets to contact with l or r, they merge for a new sound ɬ.
*sVl -> ɬV

Word-initial sk clusters become h in the end.
sk -> ʃ -> h

Other word-initial ss before a consonant disappear.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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Vowels are a trickier case and need to be considered yet.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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The consonant inventory as a whole is:
p t k kʷ
b d g gʷ 
s ɬ h
β ð ɣ~j w
l r
m n
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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Nouns

- No gender
- Two numbers: singular and plural, nouns denoting to animals have an unmarked collective and marked singulatives for both sexes.
- Four cases: nominative, accusative, genitive/oblique, and vocative
- Two declensions: thematic and athematic.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

Post by k1234567890y »

sounds nice (: is it possible that it was influenced by Germanic languages?
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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k1234567890y wrote:sounds nice (: is it possible that it was influenced by Germanic languages?
I see no reason for not being.
Why do you think so?
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

Post by k1234567890y »

Omzinesý wrote:
k1234567890y wrote:sounds nice (: is it possible that it was influenced by Germanic languages?
I see no reason for not being.
Why do you think so?
I think there's a possible Germanic influence because both of them are centum languages, and the pattern of the consonant change is simiar to the Grimm's law of Proto-Germanic language, except for that PIE voiceless plosives didn't become fricatives in Bsarkus.

And it seems that a law parallel to the Verner's law didn't occur in Bsarkus.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

Post by Omzinesý »

k1234567890y wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:
k1234567890y wrote:sounds nice (: is it possible that it was influenced by Germanic languages?
I see no reason for not being.
Why do you think so?
I think there's a possible Germanic influence because both of them are centum languages, and the pattern of the consonant change is simiar to the Grimm's law of Proto-Germanic language, except for that PIE voiceless plosives didn't become fricatives in Bsarkus.

And it seems that a law parallel to the Verner's law didn't occur in Bsarkus.
Yes you are right. They are very similar.
Systematic common sound changes are though often explained with genealogical development rather than contact influence. A Bsarku-Germanic prelanguage - parallel to Balto-Slavic - could be an interesting alternative. I've to take a look at Gothic. It seems that Bsarkus has some similarity to it.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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Verbs
I don't know much of morphology yet. Verbs too have thematic and athematic conjugations. They inflect for aspect, tense, and mood, and have also subject and object agreement.

- Three aspects: momentane, frequentative, and habitual. Perfectivity is not grammatically coded.
Habitual is a complex form and formed by 'be' + PIE actor noun -r. It can take all arguments but the word order is a bit different.

Copular clause: subject copula predicative
Verbal clause (momentane or frequentative): subject object verb
Verbal clause (habitual): subject copula object verb(-r form)
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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A attempt to make vowels

ɪ ɪ̈ ʊ 
ɛ ə ɔ
a ɒ
In principle vowel length is not phonemic, though a vowel + a semivowel creates a ddiphthong/long vowel. Historically some of the vowels above are long.

PIE had
e, o, a, ee, oo, aa
i, ei, oi, ai, eei, ooi, aai
u, eu, ou, au, eeu, oou, aau
I'll think about the diachrony.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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I just want to pop in and say this is interesting so far. I like your phoneme inventory so far.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

Post by Wario Toad 32 »

Maybe this is a good way to make Grimm's Law happen from PIE but not have a Germanic.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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Tense
Barkus is quite analytic. Tense, aspect, and mood are all different morphemes.

Tense
There are two tenses: the non-past and past. The non-past is unmarked. The ppast marker is prefix /ə/ <e>. It's called the augment in Indo-Europeanistics.
The augment causes some changes in the first sound of the stem.
- voiced plosives lenitate to fricatives / semivowels. That's the usual lenition between vowels.
brykat 'break' ebhrykat 'broke'
- nasals get a voiced plosive after them
nowat 'sails' endowat 'sailed'
- other consonants are geminated
quemt 'moves' eqquemt 'moved'
Tense formation causes quite few stem changes.

The augment is deleted in sandhi processes after a vowel and the consonant is the only marker of tense.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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I'm considering changing the name of the language.

bVsr or bsVr of unknown origin. It's just the name of the area the language is spoken. I'm replacing the adjectival suffix k with h. I was not sure if the k is related to Latin -ic or Germanic -ig, or if they are related. -u is a thematic vowel. Anyway Bsarhus sounds better to me. -h derives from -sk.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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Athematic declension
I use quan 'woman' as the example word

Nominative: quans
Accusative: quan
Genitive/oblique: quani
Dative: quane

Athematic singulars usually have a thematic plural with -i marker.
Nominative: quanis
Accusative: quani
Genitive/oblique: quanej
Vocative: quani

The same root in the thematic declension with a slight semantic difference
Nominative: quanos
Accusative: quano
Genitive/oblique: quany <o+i
Vocative: quano

Thematic singulars usually have an athematic plural with -n marker. The nominative does not have the -s marker.
Nominative: quanon
Accusative: quanon
Genitive/oblique: quanoni
vocative: quanone
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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Wario Toad 32 wrote:Maybe this is a good way to make Grimm's Law happen from PIE but not have a Germanic.
Yes, though I actually think that the dh series in PIE was not that marked. So maybe Grimm's law is not that innovative.
That's an eternal debate.

I have to look at the other sound changes -vowels especially - leading to Germanic.
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Re: Bsarkus - a PIE lang

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Nachtuil wrote:I just want to pop in and say this is interesting so far. I like your phoneme inventory so far.
Thanks!
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Re: Bsarhus - a PIE lang

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The message above describes the absolute inflections of nouns. There is also a possessed one.

The possessed marker is -ts. It derives from genitive form *tósyo of the PIE pronoun *sóhttps://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstr ... an/s%C3%B3

If the stem ends in a resonant consonant, -ts is added to the athematic stem. All other athematic stems get an epenthetic e.
The case endings are added like to the athematic declension, but the accusative has marker ë.

Singular
Niminative: quants 'X's woman'
Accusative: quantsë
Genitive/oblique: quantsi
Vocative: quante

Plural
Nominative: quanits
Accusative: quenitsë
Genitive/oblique: quanitsi
Vocative: quanitse


The usage

If a genitive attribute precedes a noun without possessive inflection, their relation is interpreted very strict. The construction corresponds to compounds in English.
If a genitive attribute precedes a noun with possessive inflection, their relation is interpreted less strict. That corresponds to English of or s' genitives.
If there is no genitive attribute before a noun with the possessive inflection, the referent of the noun is interpreted to be possessed by the subject of the sentence.
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Re: Bsarhus - a PIE lang

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First attempt for a writing system

There is no diachronic oddities yet.
ɪ ɪ̈ ʊ <i y u>
ɛ ə ɔ <e ë o>
a <a>

I'm considering how diphthong stems work.
[nos] 'ship NOM'
[nowi] 'ship GEN/OBL'
So it's possible that some vowels can also have a digraphic orthography.
<nows>
<nowi>
An other possibility is that <w> is never written.
<nos>
<noi>

uw, ygh, and ij are kind of long high vowels.
Diphthongs uj, ugh, yw, and iw also appear high.

p t k kʷ <p t k qu (before vowels) q (elsewhere)
b d g gʷ <b d g gu>
s ɬ h <s ɬ h>
β ð ɣ~j w <bh dh gh-j w>
l r <l r>
m n <m n>
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