Quick Diachronics Challenge

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sangi39
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

And here we go:

Image

Not a huge one. I'd expect the correct proto-form might be found quite quickly, but I'm really interested to see how people group these together [:)]
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qwed117
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by qwed117 »

Hmm. This challenge seems pretty difficult actually.

Maybe *glømar?
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Ashtăr Balynestjăr »

I'm going to say *ʎomad. I'll give more details when I'm on my computer.
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qwed117
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by qwed117 »

qwed117 wrote:Hmm. This challenge seems pretty difficult actually.

Maybe *glømar?
Changing the final consonant to a d
*glømad
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My minicity is [http://zyphrazia.myminicity.com/xml]Zyphrazia and [http://novland.myminicity.com/xml]Novland.

Minicity has fallen :(
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

I'll wait for a few more responses before posting feedback, I think [:)]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Creyeditor
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor »

So, this is my first guess, as usual, without grouping: *glabat
Edit: So here's my refined guess, based on the following grouping.
Spoiler:
Image
I am really not sure about the tones. B could very well just be *b, but I am not sure. The word final consonant and the first vowels are also difficult.

Proto-Word: ***glèBàr

Pre-DarkGreen: ***glèBàr > glèBà > glèmà
Proto-DarkGreen: **glèmà
Proto-Black: *jámà
jámà > dʑámà > ʑámà
Proto-Green: *glèmà
glèmà > gjèmà
glèmà > lèmà


Pre-Purple: ***glèBàr > glòBàr > lòBàr > lùBàr > lùvàr
Proto-Purple: **luvar
Proto-DarkBlue: *lovat
lovat > lovaʔ
Proto-Grey: *luvar
luvar > luovar
luvar > luvas
Proto-Pink: *livar
livar > lievar

Pre-Ligh-Blue: *** glèBàr > lèBàr > lèBá > ljàBá > ljàbá
Proto-LightBlue: *ljàbá
ljàbá > jàbá > dʑàbá > ʑàbá
ljàbá > jàbá > ɲàbá
ljàbá > làbá > lábà
ljàbá > làbá > làvá

Pre-Red: ***glèBàr > gjèBàr > gjòBàr > gjòBì > jòBì > jòwì
Proto-Red: *jowi
jowi > joi > joy > øy
jowi > joi > ei
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by qwed117 »

Here's my grouping. I am equivocal the analysis that there was originally tone, as I'm unable to determine the tone in the original word

Image

While Proto-Black is listed as the first split, it in fact is the youngest branch, a la Berber
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Inkcube-Revolver »

Here's my submission!
Spoiler:
Image
Edit: Here's a much smaller version. It's still pretty big, but hopefully it's more manageable.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

Creyeditor's grouping is more or less spot on, down to the sub-grouping.

Qwed is sort of on the right lines with their "black line", but it is the first split, minus the incorrect grouping of làvá with lovat and lovaʔ.

Inkcube has come to a proto-form that I'm tempted to consider the "closer to correct", although the final syllable, as Creyeditor and Qwed have correctly guessed, is closed.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
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So close your eyes once more and once more believe
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by qwed117 »

*glemat?
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Minicity has fallen :(
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor »

Obviously [:D] So I'm gonna add some tone: *glémàt
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

Qwed is actually closer, lol, but still not quite right.

HINT: The proto-form has an initial that has an MOA only evident from one single reflex.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Inkcube-Revolver »

sangi39 wrote:Qwed is actually closer, lol, but still not quite right.

HINT: The proto-form has an initial that has an MOA only evident from one single reflex.
The protoform wouldn't be *tlemat or *dlemat, would it? If this is definitely not it, and if my original guess was closer, then I'll stick with my first one.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor »

I was just referring to the final closed syllable [:D]
The only MOA, AFAICS, that only appears once is a nasal, so I guess it might be: *ŋlemat which is a bit crazy [B)]
Fricatives appear all over he place, as do affricates (so maybe also stops) and laterals, as well as no consonants and glides.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by qwed117 »

Creyeditor wrote:I was just referring to the final closed syllable [:D]
The only MOA, AFAICS, that only appears once is a nasal, so I guess it might be: *ŋlemat which is a bit crazy [B)]
Fricatives appear all over he place, as do affricates (so maybe also stops) and laterals, as well as no consonants and glides.
That's the only thing that really makes sense. So... I might as well give the opposite

*ɣ̞lemat

ɣ̞ is likely lightly affricated.

This is honestly because this is the only other possibility if Creyed does get it wrong (but I don't think he'll get it wrong)
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

And with that, I shall declare Creyeditor the winner. The actual proto-form was *ŋglamat, rather than *ŋlemat, with the following changes:

Code: Select all

ŋglamat > ŋlamad > ŋlaβ~ad  > laβ~ad   > la:vad  > lauvat  > lo:vat > lu:vas > luvas
                                                                             > luovar
                                                                    > lovat  > lovat
                                                                             > lovaʔ
                                                 > laivad  > le:var > li:var > livar
                                                                             > lievar
                            > ŋjaβ~ad  > ɲawaj   > jowe:   > jowi   > jowi
                                                                    > jøwy   > øy > ei
        > glamat > glãmãt   > glãmãd   > glã:mad > glã:mad > glàimà > lèmà
                                                                    > gjèmà
                                                 > gja:mad > dʑámà  > dʑámà
                                                                        > ʑámà
                                                                           > jámà
                                       > gra:mad > kra:mat > ʈʂáumá > ʈʂómá
                 > glãbat   > ŋlabat   > labat   > lábát   > lábá   > lábà
                                                                    > làvá
                                       > ɲabat   > ɲàbát   > ɲàbá   > ɲàbá
                                                                    > ʑàbá
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Inkcube-Revolver »

Dang, this one was a tricky one! Congrats, Creyeditor!
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor »

Two instances of word final voicing, I would have never guessed that [:D] Also kra:mat as an intermediate form, wow
It will take me a few days to post the next challenge, I hope that's okay.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

Creyeditor wrote:Two instances of word final voicing, I would have never guessed that [:D] Also kra:mat as an intermediate form, wow
It will take me a few days to post the next challenge, I hope that's okay.
It took me about 2 weeks, lol. A couple of days would probably be fine by most people's standards [:)]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor »

So here's my challenge. It's a bit different, because with my last challenge some of you mentioned that it would be nice to have more than one cognate. So I included two of them [:D]

First word:
Spoiler:
Image
Second word:
Spoiler:
Image
You can also have a hint, if you want to [:D]
Spoiler:
It's surf and turf again [xD]
And sorry for the inconsistent tonal notation. I noticed only after finishing the maps, that the font I chose does not like nasalized high toned vowels.
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