Quick Diachronics Challenge
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
And here we go:
Not a huge one. I'd expect the correct proto-form might be found quite quickly, but I'm really interested to see how people group these together
Not a huge one. I'd expect the correct proto-form might be found quite quickly, but I'm really interested to see how people group these together
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Hmm. This challenge seems pretty difficult actually.
Maybe *glømar?
Maybe *glømar?
Spoiler:
-
- cuneiform
- Posts: 195
- Joined: 18 Jan 2017 07:17
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I'm going to say *ʎomad. I'll give more details when I'm on my computer.
[ˈaʃt̪əɹ ˈbalɨˌnɛsʲtʲəɹ]
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Changing the final consonant to a dqwed117 wrote:Hmm. This challenge seems pretty difficult actually.
Maybe *glømar?
*glømad
Spoiler:
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I'll wait for a few more responses before posting feedback, I think
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5091
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
So, this is my first guess, as usual, without grouping: *glabat
Edit: So here's my refined guess, based on the following grouping.
I am really not sure about the tones. B could very well just be *b, but I am not sure. The word final consonant and the first vowels are also difficult.
Proto-Word: ***glèBàr
Pre-DarkGreen: ***glèBàr > glèBà > glèmà
Proto-DarkGreen: **glèmà
Proto-Black: *jámà
jámà > dʑámà > ʑámà
Proto-Green: *glèmà
glèmà > gjèmà
glèmà > lèmà
Pre-Purple: ***glèBàr > glòBàr > lòBàr > lùBàr > lùvàr
Proto-Purple: **luvar
Proto-DarkBlue: *lovat
lovat > lovaʔ
Proto-Grey: *luvar
luvar > luovar
luvar > luvas
Proto-Pink: *livar
livar > lievar
Pre-Ligh-Blue: *** glèBàr > lèBàr > lèBá > ljàBá > ljàbá
Proto-LightBlue: *ljàbá
ljàbá > jàbá > dʑàbá > ʑàbá
ljàbá > jàbá > ɲàbá
ljàbá > làbá > lábà
ljàbá > làbá > làvá
Pre-Red: ***glèBàr > gjèBàr > gjòBàr > gjòBì > jòBì > jòwì
Proto-Red: *jowi
jowi > joi > joy > øy
jowi > joi > ei
Spoiler:
Proto-Word: ***glèBàr
Pre-DarkGreen: ***glèBàr > glèBà > glèmà
Proto-DarkGreen: **glèmà
Proto-Black: *jámà
jámà > dʑámà > ʑámà
Proto-Green: *glèmà
glèmà > gjèmà
glèmà > lèmà
Pre-Purple: ***glèBàr > glòBàr > lòBàr > lùBàr > lùvàr
Proto-Purple: **luvar
Proto-DarkBlue: *lovat
lovat > lovaʔ
Proto-Grey: *luvar
luvar > luovar
luvar > luvas
Proto-Pink: *livar
livar > lievar
Pre-Ligh-Blue: *** glèBàr > lèBàr > lèBá > ljàBá > ljàbá
Proto-LightBlue: *ljàbá
ljàbá > jàbá > dʑàbá > ʑàbá
ljàbá > jàbá > ɲàbá
ljàbá > làbá > lábà
ljàbá > làbá > làvá
Pre-Red: ***glèBàr > gjèBàr > gjòBàr > gjòBì > jòBì > jòwì
Proto-Red: *jowi
jowi > joi > joy > øy
jowi > joi > ei
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Here's my grouping. I am equivocal the analysis that there was originally tone, as I'm unable to determine the tone in the original word
While Proto-Black is listed as the first split, it in fact is the youngest branch, a la Berber
While Proto-Black is listed as the first split, it in fact is the youngest branch, a la Berber
Spoiler:
- Inkcube-Revolver
- cuneiform
- Posts: 126
- Joined: 05 Nov 2015 23:20
- Location: Miami, FL
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Here's my submission!
Spoiler:
Edit: Here's a much smaller version. It's still pretty big, but hopefully it's more manageable.
I like my languages how I like my women: grammatically complex with various moods and tenses, a thin line between nouns and verbs, and dozens upon dozens of possible conjugations for every single verb.
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Creyeditor's grouping is more or less spot on, down to the sub-grouping.
Qwed is sort of on the right lines with their "black line", but it is the first split, minus the incorrect grouping of làvá with lovat and lovaʔ.
Inkcube has come to a proto-form that I'm tempted to consider the "closer to correct", although the final syllable, as Creyeditor and Qwed have correctly guessed, is closed.
Qwed is sort of on the right lines with their "black line", but it is the first split, minus the incorrect grouping of làvá with lovat and lovaʔ.
Inkcube has come to a proto-form that I'm tempted to consider the "closer to correct", although the final syllable, as Creyeditor and Qwed have correctly guessed, is closed.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5091
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Obviously So I'm gonna add some tone: *glémàt
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Qwed is actually closer, lol, but still not quite right.
HINT: The proto-form has an initial that has an MOA only evident from one single reflex.
HINT: The proto-form has an initial that has an MOA only evident from one single reflex.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
- Inkcube-Revolver
- cuneiform
- Posts: 126
- Joined: 05 Nov 2015 23:20
- Location: Miami, FL
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
The protoform wouldn't be *tlemat or *dlemat, would it? If this is definitely not it, and if my original guess was closer, then I'll stick with my first one.sangi39 wrote:Qwed is actually closer, lol, but still not quite right.
HINT: The proto-form has an initial that has an MOA only evident from one single reflex.
I like my languages how I like my women: grammatically complex with various moods and tenses, a thin line between nouns and verbs, and dozens upon dozens of possible conjugations for every single verb.
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5091
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
I was just referring to the final closed syllable
The only MOA, AFAICS, that only appears once is a nasal, so I guess it might be: *ŋlemat which is a bit crazy
Fricatives appear all over he place, as do affricates (so maybe also stops) and laterals, as well as no consonants and glides.
The only MOA, AFAICS, that only appears once is a nasal, so I guess it might be: *ŋlemat which is a bit crazy
Fricatives appear all over he place, as do affricates (so maybe also stops) and laterals, as well as no consonants and glides.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
That's the only thing that really makes sense. So... I might as well give the oppositeCreyeditor wrote:I was just referring to the final closed syllable
The only MOA, AFAICS, that only appears once is a nasal, so I guess it might be: *ŋlemat which is a bit crazy
Fricatives appear all over he place, as do affricates (so maybe also stops) and laterals, as well as no consonants and glides.
*ɣ̞lemat
ɣ̞ is likely lightly affricated.
This is honestly because this is the only other possibility if Creyed does get it wrong (but I don't think he'll get it wrong)
Spoiler:
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
And with that, I shall declare Creyeditor the winner. The actual proto-form was *ŋglamat, rather than *ŋlemat, with the following changes:
Code: Select all
ŋglamat > ŋlamad > ŋlaβ~ad > laβ~ad > la:vad > lauvat > lo:vat > lu:vas > luvas
> luovar
> lovat > lovat
> lovaʔ
> laivad > le:var > li:var > livar
> lievar
> ŋjaβ~ad > ɲawaj > jowe: > jowi > jowi
> jøwy > øy > ei
> glamat > glãmãt > glãmãd > glã:mad > glã:mad > glàimà > lèmà
> gjèmà
> gja:mad > dʑámà > dʑámà
> ʑámà
> jámà
> gra:mad > kra:mat > ʈʂáumá > ʈʂómá
> glãbat > ŋlabat > labat > lábát > lábá > lábà
> làvá
> ɲabat > ɲàbát > ɲàbá > ɲàbá
> ʑàbá
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
- Inkcube-Revolver
- cuneiform
- Posts: 126
- Joined: 05 Nov 2015 23:20
- Location: Miami, FL
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Dang, this one was a tricky one! Congrats, Creyeditor!
I like my languages how I like my women: grammatically complex with various moods and tenses, a thin line between nouns and verbs, and dozens upon dozens of possible conjugations for every single verb.
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5091
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
Two instances of word final voicing, I would have never guessed that Also kra:mat as an intermediate form, wow
It will take me a few days to post the next challenge, I hope that's okay.
It will take me a few days to post the next challenge, I hope that's okay.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
It took me about 2 weeks, lol. A couple of days would probably be fine by most people's standardsCreyeditor wrote:Two instances of word final voicing, I would have never guessed that Also kra:mat as an intermediate form, wow
It will take me a few days to post the next challenge, I hope that's okay.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5091
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge
So here's my challenge. It's a bit different, because with my last challenge some of you mentioned that it would be nice to have more than one cognate. So I included two of them
First word:
Second word:
You can also have a hint, if you want to
And sorry for the inconsistent tonal notation. I noticed only after finishing the maps, that the font I chose does not like nasalized high toned vowels.
First word:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics