Quick Diachronics Challenge

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Inkcube-Revolver
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Inkcube-Revolver »

Alrighty, then. I've also got a new game called "The Pogostick Language Game," you can play it over there if you're up for it. I've also got another language game in the works.
I like my languages how I like my women: grammatically complex with various moods and tenses, a thin line between nouns and verbs, and dozens upon dozens of possible conjugations for every single verb.
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Adarain
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Adarain »

Whoops.

I got distracted by a speedlanging week over on our discord and completely forgot about it afterwards. Sorry bout that. I've got about 50% of the work done, I'll try to get it done asap.
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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Adarain
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Adarain »

Alright, I think I’m done with it. It definitely doesn’t meet my perfectionistic standards but to do that I’d have to spend hours upon hours more trying to plot everythign and then you guys would have to wait for even more ages. I’ve kinda rushed it a bit towards the end so I can’t vouch for perfect naturalism either.

The challenge is to reconstruct two words:

Image

To figure out groupings, if that’s your thing, consider the geography. These people have only travelled along valleys.
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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GamerGeek
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by GamerGeek »

My loose guesses:
1. *sénētt
2. *taláita
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Creyeditor
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor »

This time I start with an informed guess. I have to admit that I did derive them one by one.
Spoiler:
Image
First Word: **snenɑtʰ
Proto-Yellow: *ʃnenɑtʰ
Proto-Red: *sneːt
Proto-Black: *ʃena
Proto-Green: *enɒts
Proto-LightBlue: *nenta
Proto-Darkblue: ???


Second Word: **taɫaita
Proto-Darkblue: *tauða
Proto-LighBlue: *talajta
Proto-Green: *talða
Proto-Black: *kalias
Proto-Red: *twit
Proto-Yellow: *taleta
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sangi39
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

Ooo, very nice. I'm working on it as we speak (not looking at anyone else's work until I'm done). I think I've got my groupings together, but there are a couple I've not sure o. I'm hoping looking at the possible sound changes for other languages might help in placing them [:)]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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sangi39
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

Preliminary guesses:

For word 1: *sə'nanatʰ
For word 2: *ta'lətʰa
Spoiler:
Image
I think ['se:n] and [tɐ'wiɐ] belong to a group closely related to the green grouping, but which simplified the the [sn] cluster differently. Pretty out there guess alongside it, but I think that [ið'ninaθ] and ['tujða] might be somewhat more distantly related to the green grouping as well, but if it is then it branches off earlier than the other three did from each other.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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GamerGeek
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by GamerGeek »

This answer was influenced by Crey's answer. And my profile is a parody of his. Hm.
Proto-Guess: ˈseneːtː, taˈlaita
Spoiler:
Image
Proto-Yellow: ˈʃnenɑtʰ, tɑˈletʰɑi
Proto-Red: ˈsneːnt, ˈtʷeːtʰ
Proto-Turquoice: ˈʃenɑs, tˠɑˈʎis
Proto-Green: ˈenɑt͡s, ˈtʰɑlðɑ
Proto-Purple: ˈnanta, ˈtalajta
Proto-Adarain: ˈsneːnɑt͡s, ˈtʰɑˌlætʰait͡s
Ashtăr Balynestjăr
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Ashtăr Balynestjăr »

Are these the numerals 2 and 3 in some future Semitic dialect continuum? /s
[ˈaʃt̪əɹ ˈbalɨˌnɛsʲtʲəɹ]
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GamerGeek
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by GamerGeek »

Ashtâr Balînestyâr wrote:Are these the numerals 2 and 3 in some future Semitic dialect continuum? /s
?
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar »

GamerGeek wrote:
Ashtâr Balînestyâr wrote:Are these the numerals 2 and 3 in some future Semitic dialect continuum? /s
?
The words probably resemble the words for 2 and 3 in some Semitic languages.
Ashtăr Balynestjăr
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Ashtăr Balynestjăr »

shimobaatar wrote:
GamerGeek wrote:
Ashtâr Balînestyâr wrote:Are these the numerals 2 and 3 in some future Semitic dialect continuum? /s
?
The words probably resemble the words for 2 and 3 in some Semitic languages.
Arabic ’ithnān ‘two’ and thalātha ‘three’, to be precise.
[ˈaʃt̪əɹ ˈbalɨˌnɛsʲtʲəɹ]
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Adarain
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Adarain »

While the original words were indeed taken from a natlang, it isn’t semitic.

Also some guesses are close, and one guess for one of the words was in fact spot on (but the other one was not).
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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sangi39
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

Annoyingly it looks like I didn't save my work last night, lol, so I'll have to start from scratch when I get back from work tonight [:P]

I can't wait for more of a reveal [:D]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Adarain
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Adarain »

I’ll leave you guys hanging for a bit longer, but I have some extinct forms if you get stuck.
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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sangi39
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 »

I'm having to give up for the day. After the events in Manchester I've ended up spending a fair amount of time contacting friends.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Adarain
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Adarain »

Here’s some extinct forms. Extra data!
Spoiler:
Image
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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GamerGeek
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by GamerGeek »

With no Gerographic naming, I am forced to use cardinal direction.
  • North Adarain: ˈʃnjenats; tɑɹitsɑ
  • Proto North-East Adarain: ˈʃĭentʰ; ˈtɑˈɹitʰa
  • Proto East Adarain: ˈsneːnt; ˈtʷeːtʰ
  • Proto Central-East Adarain: ˈʃnɔs; tɑʎiˈsɑ
  • Proto Central Adarain: eːˈnɔts; tʰɔjiˈsɔ
  • Proto West Adrain: ˈnajnta; taˈlajta
  • Proto Central-West Adarain: ˈnjajnta; tɑˈʎɑjkɑ
  • Pre Guess: ˈseneːtː; taˈlaita
  • Proto Guess: ˈsneːnɑt͡s, ˈtʰɑˌlætʰait͡s
  • Proto Adarain: ˈsinoʎentʰo; ˌtoɹoˈliːtʰo
There are 6 notible sound shifts (ɹ > l; ʎ > j; o > ɑ; tʰ > ts; s > ʃ). The <o> in the reconstruction is either a lax [ɔ], a tense [o]. It seems there is a suffix: -tʰo
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Adarain
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Adarain »

If you want geographic naming, the map is located around southeastern Switzerland.

Those last guesses are pretty far off btw. I did a lot of work with isoglosses, so going for a purely tree-based model might not work out very well.
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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Adarain
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Adarain »

So, there’s been some downtime so I guess I’ll reveal it. It’s somewhat hard to actually make any real groups as I’ve done most sound changes somewhat areally, affecting multiple dialects that may already have different words. The very first generation looked like this:

Image

I forgot to write down the stress in the first few generations and also wrote the vowels down inconsistently, this was both fixed down the line; the words were [ˈsne.nɑtʰ] and [tɑˈlitʰɑ] (< Etruscan snenaθ, taliθa). This then went on as follows:
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
Image
At this point, I switched to using “towns” instead of regions as it got too cumbersome. This also coincides with it kinda falling apart a bit imo, by which I mean groupings start getting a bit more arbitrary. I’m not really happy with the following stuff, but it was taking me some 20-30 minutes to finish a single generation already and I could see it just getting worse. Colored circles indicate that there was a common sound change affecting those places, if there’s no such circle then there may or may not have been a sound change, sometimes I left a word unchanged for a bit.
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
Image
And then the final generation that was given as a puzzle.
I’d say it’s a bit of a tie between sangi’s [sə'nanatʰ, ta'lətʰa] and Creyeditor’s [snenɑtʰ, taɫaita]. The latter got one form spot on and one quite close, while sangi’s guesses are both very good, especially the correct placements of aspiration. I’ll leave it up to you to decide on a winner.
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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