Anglo-Romance Language Collab
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
20: a
21: b
22: d e
21: b
22: d e
Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
20) a
21) b
22) abe
21) b
22) abe
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
20.A 21.B 22.E
Lostlang plans: Oghur Turkic, Gallaecian Celtic, Palaeo-Balkanic
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
20.a
21.b
22.c d
21.b
22.c d
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
The results have come in!
20) Our new king has been chosen! To prevent a disaster like last time, he decides to make a law dealing with the line of heirs in future generations. It states that all future monarchs must be a legitimate blood descendant of Karle I of the House of Èmilȝe. Should this law be passed?
a) Yes. It will be passed by December of 755 AD.
21) Should we have /ka/ and /ga/ become /tʃa/ and /dʒa/?
b) No
22) Should the phonemes /tʃ/, /ʃ/, (and maybe /dʒ/) be added to our language?
e) Yes, including /ʃ/. By metathesis of /jt/ and /js/.
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Here are the updated sound changes.
sC > ɪsC
a/aː ɛ eː/ɪ iː ɔ oː/ʊ uː > a ɛ e i ɔ o u
m s > Ø / _# (except in monosyllables)
h ns > Ø s
e i > j / _V
k(E) g(E) > kʲ gʲ
tj dj kj gj > tʲ dʲ kʲ gʲ
er or > re ro
tʲ/kʲ gʲ/dʲ kt ks > tsʲ j jt js
p/f t k > v ð j / V_V
i e ɛ a > iu eo ɛɔ ea~æa / (in open syllables)
jn/nj jl/gl/kl > ɲ ʎ
tsʲ(V) > dzʲ / _# / V_V
V > Ø / VC_CV
jt js > tj sj > tʃ ʃ
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23) How should /tʃ/ and /ʃ/ be written?
a) /tʃ ʃ/ > <ch x>
b) /tʃ ʃ/ > <tȝ sȝ>
c) /tʃ ʃ/ > <cȝ scȝ>
d) /tʃ ʃ/ > <ch sc>
You have until 20:00 EDT or 00:00 UCT
20) Our new king has been chosen! To prevent a disaster like last time, he decides to make a law dealing with the line of heirs in future generations. It states that all future monarchs must be a legitimate blood descendant of Karle I of the House of Èmilȝe. Should this law be passed?
a) Yes. It will be passed by December of 755 AD.
21) Should we have /ka/ and /ga/ become /tʃa/ and /dʒa/?
b) No
22) Should the phonemes /tʃ/, /ʃ/, (and maybe /dʒ/) be added to our language?
e) Yes, including /ʃ/. By metathesis of /jt/ and /js/.
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Here are the updated sound changes.
sC > ɪsC
a/aː ɛ eː/ɪ iː ɔ oː/ʊ uː > a ɛ e i ɔ o u
m s > Ø / _# (except in monosyllables)
h ns > Ø s
e i > j / _V
k(E) g(E) > kʲ gʲ
tj dj kj gj > tʲ dʲ kʲ gʲ
er or > re ro
tʲ/kʲ gʲ/dʲ kt ks > tsʲ j jt js
p/f t k > v ð j / V_V
i e ɛ a > iu eo ɛɔ ea~æa / (in open syllables)
jn/nj jl/gl/kl > ɲ ʎ
tsʲ(V) > dzʲ / _# / V_V
V > Ø / VC_CV
jt js > tj sj > tʃ ʃ
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23) How should /tʃ/ and /ʃ/ be written?
a) /tʃ ʃ/ > <ch x>
b) /tʃ ʃ/ > <tȝ sȝ>
c) /tʃ ʃ/ > <cȝ scȝ>
d) /tʃ ʃ/ > <ch sc>
You have until 20:00 EDT or 00:00 UCT
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
23) How should /tʃ/ and /ʃ/ be written?
The postalveolar sounds /tʃ ʃ/ will be written as <cȝ scȝ>. Below, you can see the updated orthography.
/p b t d k g/ - p b t d c/qu g/gu
/m n ɲ/ - m n nȝ
/ts dz tʃ/ - ċ ġ cȝ
/f v s ʃ h/ - f v s scȝ h
/r l ʎ j/ - r l lȝ ȝ
/i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ - i u e o è ò a
/iu eo ɛɔ ea~æa/ - iu eo èò ea
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24) What tenses should we have? What should our verbal system look like? I will allow you to give me proposals for options until 20:00 EDT or 00:00 UTC. Then, we will vote on them.
The postalveolar sounds /tʃ ʃ/ will be written as <cȝ scȝ>. Below, you can see the updated orthography.
/p b t d k g/ - p b t d c/qu g/gu
/m n ɲ/ - m n nȝ
/ts dz tʃ/ - ċ ġ cȝ
/f v s ʃ h/ - f v s scȝ h
/r l ʎ j/ - r l lȝ ȝ
/i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ - i u e o è ò a
/iu eo ɛɔ ea~æa/ - iu eo èò ea
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24) What tenses should we have? What should our verbal system look like? I will allow you to give me proposals for options until 20:00 EDT or 00:00 UTC. Then, we will vote on them.
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
I’m just going to propose a boring typical Romance verbal system, so that we can add interesting changes to it later.
Indicative:
Present
Imperfect
Preterite (from the Latin perfect)
Future (Latin infinitive + present of habēre)
Conditional (Latin infinitive + imperfect of habēre)
Subjunctive:
Present
Imperfect (from the Latin pluperfect subjunctive)
Imperative, with only the second person forms distinct from the present subjunctive
And their respective perfect tenses, formed by conjugating esse or habēre and adding the past participle. Intransitive verbs of motion and stative verbs take esse, and the participle agrees in gender with the subject. Other verbs take habēre, and the participle agrees with the direct object; if there is no direct object, the participle is neuter.
Indicative:
Present
Imperfect
Preterite (from the Latin perfect)
Future (Latin infinitive + present of habēre)
Conditional (Latin infinitive + imperfect of habēre)
Subjunctive:
Present
Imperfect (from the Latin pluperfect subjunctive)
Imperative, with only the second person forms distinct from the present subjunctive
And their respective perfect tenses, formed by conjugating esse or habēre and adding the past participle. Intransitive verbs of motion and stative verbs take esse, and the participle agrees in gender with the subject. Other verbs take habēre, and the participle agrees with the direct object; if there is no direct object, the participle is neuter.
[ˈaʃt̪əɹ ˈbalɨˌnɛsʲtʲəɹ]
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
24: Ashtâr Balînestyâr's proposal
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
Why not make the verb forms highly analytic and make use of compound tense? Akin to Modern English. However, I am inclined to agree with the solution above for now.
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
Well, considering vowel reduction and how final /m/ and /s/ were deleted in polysyllables (I assume syllable-final /t/ would be deleted as well), the present tense conjugation would be something like this, with no person distinction in the singular anyway for most verbs.
But I don’t think we even voted on deleting final /s/, and you specifically show the plural pronouns retaining it, so I’m not sure if that was what you intended. If it’s retained, the present tense would look like this instead:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
I think we would retain final s because there are some Romance languages that still use it in verb conjugations. Here is an example.
English: We sing.
Portuguese: Nós cantamos
Spanish: Nosotros cantamos.
Sardinian: Nois cantamus.
Also, what verbs did you use in your example?
English: We sing.
Portuguese: Nós cantamos
Spanish: Nosotros cantamos.
Sardinian: Nois cantamus.
Also, what verbs did you use in your example?
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
"Sing" (cantāre), "fall" (*cadēre, shifted to the seond conjugation from Classical Latin cadere in all Romance languages), "lose" (perdere), "sleep" (dormīre) and "finish" (finīre, with the -ēsc- augment). Of course, we don't have to retain all five conjugations, but they're in my example for reference anyway.gokupwned5 wrote:Also, what verbs did you use in your example?
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
Thanks! Hypothetically, here is what they would turn into. Also, I feel that finīre would eventually regularize and lose the -ēsc- augment since it only occurs in Italian and Sardinian as far as I know.
cantāre "to sing" > cantar
cadēre "to fall" > cader
perdere "to lose" > perder/perdre (will be voted on later)
dormīre "to sleep" > dormir
finīre "to finish" > finir
cantāre "to sing" > cantar
cadēre "to fall" > cader
perdere "to lose" > perder/perdre (will be voted on later)
dormīre "to sleep" > dormir
finīre "to finish" > finir
Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
French also has the esc augment, I believe in all the verb forms.
terram impūram incolāmus
hamteu un mont sug
let us live in a dirty world
hamteu un mont sug
let us live in a dirty world
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Re: Anglo-Romance Language Collab
It’s actually much more common. The infixes -iss- in French second conjugation verbs and -eix- in Catalan verbs like servir, jo serveixo were derived from the -ēsc- augment. Spanish and Portuguese preserve the augment in -ecer verbs, but there it spread by analogy to the entire paradigm.gokupwned5 wrote: Also, I feel that finīre would eventually regularize and lose the -ēsc- augment since it only occurs in Italian and Sardinian as far as I know.
As far as I know, finīre has the augment in every Romance language that preserves it, except Sardinian for some reason: Cat. jo fineixo, Fr. je finis, It. io finisco, Old Sp. fenecer. (Actually, I can’t find any information on the -ēsc- augment in Sardinian, but finìre definitely doesn’t have it.)
[ˈaʃt̪əɹ ˈbalɨˌnɛsʲtʲəɹ]