Græco-Roman

A forum for all topics related to constructed languages
Post Reply
User avatar
GamerGeek
sinic
sinic
Posts: 345
Joined: 17 May 2017 18:10
Location: The Universe
Contact:

Græco-Roman

Post by GamerGeek »

Greeks and Romans exchanged a-lot: religion, architecture, and so on. Now, what if they exchanged language? This would result in a Græco-Roman creole (here, it is just called Græco-Roman)
The point is not to recreate Latin with Greek grammar, but a language just in between the two.
Both scripts were used (hypothetically), and thus should be used here.
Sumelic
greek
greek
Posts: 566
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 23:01

Re: Græco-Roman

Post by Sumelic »

Well, they did exchange language a fair amount in real life. Not in the sense of forming a creole (I think creole formation requires specific circumstances), but there was a lot of contact. Latin has a number of Greek loanwords, some of which retained more or less Greek patterns of declension. Greek has, to a lesser degree I think, Latin loanwords. Some parts of Latin word construction seem to have been influenced by Greek such as the construction of learned compounds: using "-o-" as a combining vowel is definitely taken from Greek, and I read a paper that argued that even the use of compounds with the more native linking vowel "-i-" was modeled in a number of cases after the common use of compounds in Greek.

The scripts are related in origin and letters like Z and Y were re-introduced later on in Latin specifically for use in Greek loanwords.
User avatar
Lambuzhao
korean
korean
Posts: 5405
Joined: 13 May 2012 02:57

Re: Græco-Roman

Post by Lambuzhao »

A Graeco-Roman contact language!

Years upon years ago, I came up with a similar idea. The name of my take on such a :con: lang is Neodan.

The language went thru various stages, as my understanding of PIE linguistics, Glottochronology & Sound Changes, and a widening net of
:grc: loanwords into :lat: increased.

Neodan is basically a :lat: basolect, with heavy :grc: influence, such as definite articles which were more or less CERN-collisions of
:grc: DEFs and :lat: iste/ista/istud (not unlike Old Prussian stas, sta), a reconstriuction of the /s/ aorist scaffolded from -S PFTs like divisi ussi etc, and a more widespread refashioning of reduplicated PFTs like momordi, spopondi, totondi, etc.


It used both a Latin-based and Greek based alphabets, not unlike how Serbo-Croatian developed Latinate, Cyrillic and even (obsolete) Greek orthographies.


There are significant resources for Greek loanwords into Latin (and vice versa), if you just dig a little deeper (re-research)

https://books.google.com/books?id=gWY7- ... in&f=false

Also, look into Image Griko/ Grecanic/ Salentino; there are more and more resources sprouting on the 'Net.

Summer's coming, I will see what I can dig up and share [:D]

:lat: + :grc: = W00T
Cannot wait to read more!
User avatar
Lao Kou
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 5089
Joined: 25 Nov 2012 10:39
Location: 蘇州/苏州

Re: Græco-Roman

Post by Lao Kou »

Lambuzhao wrote:Summer's coming,
Ain't it, though! Get the visa finished, turn in the grades. We're in the homestretch, bubbeh. And then on to the more relevant indulgent business of conlanging. [:D]
I will see what I can dig up and share [:D]
Looking forward to this.
:lat: + :grc: = W00T
Cannot wait to read more!
Ditto. Also looking forward to this.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
Esneirra973
sinic
sinic
Posts: 315
Joined: 12 Aug 2016 16:05

Re: Græco-Roman

Post by Esneirra973 »

Can't wait to see the final product
Zythros Jubi
sinic
sinic
Posts: 417
Joined: 24 Nov 2014 17:31

Re: Græco-Roman

Post by Zythros Jubi »

I‘ve attempted a Sicilian Greek altlang, and then unsure about lots of details so I started a Collabgreeklang thread; however the voters were too few and I was still unable to make decisions, and made alternatives into dialect features. It is set in an althistory where Byzantium hold Southern Italy longer than OTL. However, how complex its morphology will be is an open question, so is what happened to word endings. Notice that Southern Italian Greek dialects retain /n/ longer like Cypriot, and it has a Doric substrate. The forms on the left of ">" is supposed to be 6-8th century pronunciation with contemporary Greek spelling, derived from Collabgreeklang; the ones on the right are my supposed results in 11-12th c.; marked with asterisks are supposed modern forms prior to Collabgreeklanging (using Sicilian orthography, and is a Greek-to-Sicilian bogolang), in which nominative merges into accusative.

1st decl.
"honor, value" f.
SG PL
N τῑμᾱ́ τῑμαί /tiˈma tiˈmɛ/ > /tiˈma tiˈmɛ/ *tima timi
G τῑμᾱ́ς τῑμῶν /tiˈmas tiˈmon/ > /tiˈmɛ tiˈmun/ timi timu
A τῑμᾱ́ν τῑμᾱ́ς /tiˈman tiˈmas/ > /tiˈman tiˈmɛ/ tima timi
D τῑμᾱ́ τῑμαῖς /tiˈma tiˈmɛs/ > /tiˈma tiˈmɛ/ tima timi

"citizen" m.
SG PL
N πολῑ́τᾱς πολῖται /pɔˈlitas pɔˈlitɛ/ > /pɔˈlitɛ pɔˈlitɛ/ *puliti puliti
G πολῑ́του πολῖτων /pɔˈlitu pɔˈlitun/ > /pɔˈlitu pɔˈlitun/ pulitu pulitu
A πολῑ́τᾱν πολῑ́τᾱς /pɔˈlitan pɔˈlitas/ > /pɔˈlitan pɔˈlitɛ/ pulita puliti
D πολῑ́τᾱ πολῑ́ταις /pɔˈlita pɔˈlitɛs/ > /pɔˈlita pɔˈliti/ pulita puliti

2nd decl.
"human being" m.
SG PL
N ἄνθρωπος ἄνθρωποι /ˈantrupɔs ˈantrupy/ > /ˈantrupɛ ˈantrupy/ *antrupi antrupi
G ἄνθρωπου ἄνθρωπων /ˈantrupu ˈantrupun/ > /ˈantrupu ˈantrupun/ antrupu antrupu
A ἄνθρωπον ἄνθρωπους /ˈantrupɔn ˈantrupus/ > /ˈantrupɔn ˈantrupy/ antrupu antrupi
D ἄνθρωπῳ ἄνθρωποις /ˈantrupu ˈantrupys/ > /ˈantrupu ˈantrupy/ antrupu antrupi

"tears" n.
SG PL
N δάκρυον δάκρυᾰ /ˈðakrivɔn ˈðakriva/ > /ˈðakrivɔn ˈðakriva/ *dàcrivu dàcriva
G δάκρυου δάκρυων /ˈðakrivu ˈðakrivun/ > /ˈðakrivu ˈðakrivun/ dàcrivu dàcrivu
A δάκρυον δάκρυᾰ /ˈðakrivɔn ˈðakriva/ > /ˈðakrivɔn ˈðakriva/ dàcrivu dàcriva
D δακρύῳ δακρύοις /ˈðakrivu ˈðakrivys/ > /ˈðakrivu ˈðakrivi/ dàcrivu dàcrivi

3rd decl.
"man" m.
N ἄνδρις ἄνδρες /ˈanːaris ˈanːarɛs/ > /ˈanːari ˈanːari/ *ànnari ànnari
G ἄνδρος ἄνδρων /ˈanːarɔs ˈanːarun/ > /ˈanːarɛ ˈanːarun/ ànnari ànnaru
A ἄνδρα ἄνδρας /ˈanːara ˈanːaras/ > /ˈanːara ˈanːarɛ/ ànnara ànnari
D ἀνδρι ἄνδροις /ˈanːari ˈanːarys/ >/ˈanːari ˈanːari/ ànnari ànnari

"night" f.
N νῠ́ττις νῠ́ττες /ˈnyttis ˈnyttɛs/ > /ˈɲutti ˈɲutti/ *gnutti gnutti
G νῠ́ττος νῠ́ττων /ˈnyttɔs ˈnyttun/ > /ˈɲuttɛ ˈɲuttun/ gnutti gnuttu
A νῠ́ττᾰ νῠ́ττας /ˈnytta ˈnyttas/ > /ˈɲutta ˈɲuttɛ/ gnutta gnutti
D νῠ́ττι νῠ́ττοις /ˈnytti ˈnyttys/ > /ˈɲutti ˈɲutti/ gnutti gnutti

So much for now.
Lostlang plans: Oghur Turkic, Gallaecian Celtic, Palaeo-Balkanic
Post Reply