Atlas: new auxlang

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elemtilas
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by elemtilas »

lsd wrote:Is there any auxiliary sign language ever constructed...
Sure. I've seen references to International Sign, Uniwording Sign Language. I think Plains Indian Sign Language might count.
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Lambuzhao »

elemtilas wrote:
lsd wrote:Is there any auxiliary sign language ever constructed...
Sure. I've seen references to International Sign, Uniwording Sign Language. I think Plains Indian Sign Language might count.
I believe Solresol can be signed, as well as (semaphore) flagged, and colored/painted (!)
:wat:
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Nachtuil »

I wouldn't worry about a sign language. That would legitimately have to be a different language.
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elemtilas
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by elemtilas »

Nachtuil wrote:I wouldn't worry about a sign language. That would legitimately have to be a different language.
Perhaps...though I think it could be argued that a True Believer(TM) in invented auxlangs needs to address this underserved population.

To be honest, deaf people worldwide are probably the least served and most ignored when it comes to language in general. (The OP seems to think of sign languages as perhaps not-quite-languages.) As I understand it, even within large language blocs like ASL, there are plenty of regionalisms, dialects and so forth even among close geographical regions, making communication between Americans difficult. Also, deaf folks don't have the advantage enjoyed by speakers of English. ASL, BSL AustrSL, etc --- none of those are mutually comprehensible.

If anything, the world-wide deaf community is the ideal field for an auxlanger to work his magic. There is actually a real need for an international auxiliary language there. To be fair, Atlas has no chance of ever becoming the or even a spoken IAL. As an intellectual exercise, as a creative exercise, all well and good. As an exercise in international politics, it has no hope. Putting that energy into a SIAL, now that would raise the art of auxlangery out of the 19th century quagmire it's been stuck in since the early 20th century! Pulling this off would definitely put the hard working auxlanger on the map.
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Nachtuil »

You make excellent points. American Sign Language comes close but is mostly North American. It also has a few unfortunate relics (I think of the squinted eyes to mean Chinese people for instance). Such an auxlanger would need a strong understanding of current sign language I think.
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elemtilas
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by elemtilas »

Nachtuil wrote:You make excellent points. American Sign Language comes close but is mostly North American. It also has a few unfortunate relics (I think of the squinted eyes to mean Chinese people for instance). Such an auxlanger would need a strong understanding of current sign language I think.
And not just ASL (e.g.), but of many others, too.
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Nachtuil »

It is still hard to imagine someone doing it without knowing at least one sign language already. One would have to understand the challenges of that type of communication. I imagine it being like a man who works on windmills rushing to the port to tell sailors how to sail better. I wouldn't even attempt it myself.
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Xing »

Don't forget to make a whistled language also. How else should people of different native tongues be able to communicate effectively across mountain valleys? [:)]
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Lao Kou »

Xing wrote:How else should people of different native tongues be able to communicate effectively across mountain valleys? [:)]
A yodellang?
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Xing »

Lao Kou wrote:
Xing wrote:How else should people of different native tongues be able to communicate effectively across mountain valleys? [:)]
A yodellang?
That too [:D] And a IAL whispering language. We don't want to give the Pirahã an unfair advantage.
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Xing »

Ok, back to Atlas, before the thread derails completely.

How does one express relative tenses? Take a sentence like:

He saw that she killed the cat.

Which tense would 'kill' take?


Also, what are your (=TS's) opinion of the IAL:s Vötgil and Terwen?
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Lambuzhao »

Xing wrote:Don't forget to make a whistled language also. How else should people of different native tongues be able to communicate effectively across mountain valleys? [:)]
Damn, U beat me to it. I mean whistle whistle whiiiiiistle trilling-whistle warble whistle
[:S]
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Rodiniye »

Let me clarify first that I was not referring to official "sign languages", but to extremely basic and non-constructed sign "languages". I did not explain myself. Sign languages have all my respect, I studied in a university where it was part of the languages you could chose.
Xing wrote:Ok, back to Atlas, before the thread derails completely.

How does one express relative tenses? Take a sentence like:

He saw that she killed the cat.

Which tense would 'kill' take?


Also, what are your (=TS's) opinion of the IAL:s Vötgil and Terwen?

Ze viset, ze wazet al-nekoa.

Both are happening in the past, so both take the past. [tick]
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Xing »

Rodiniye wrote:
Ze viset, ze wazet al-nekoa.

Both are happening in the past, so both take the past. [tick]
It's not obvious that both were happening 'in the past'', it depends on your point of reference. It's past relative to the moment of speaking, but present relative to the point of reference established..
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Keenir »

Rodiniye wrote:Let me clarify first that I was not referring to official "sign languages", but to extremely basic and non-constructed sign "languages".
such as...? (frantically waving arms and making stabbing motions with index finger at the hungry tiger behind you?)
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Rodiniye »

Xing wrote:
Rodiniye wrote:
Ze viset, ze wazet al-nekoa.

Both are happening in the past, so both take the past. [tick]
It's not obvious that both were happening 'in the past'', it depends on your point of reference. It's past relative to the moment of speaking, but present relative to the point of reference established..
in Atlas it is always from the moment of speaking [:)] Thanks!
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by alynnidalar »

How would "He saw that she was killing the cat." be translated, then? The same way, given that it's still in the past relative to the frame of reference of the speaker?
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Xing »

alynnidalar wrote:How would "He saw that she was killing the cat." be translated, then? The same way, given that it's still in the past relative to the frame of reference of the speaker?
I'd guess it would be something like this: 1s.MASC see.PFV.PST CONJ 3s.FEM kill.PROGR.PST DEF cat. Or could 'was killing' be rendered as anything else than a past tense progressive?

Another question would be how to handle the pluperfect. (He saw that she arrived vs He saw that she had arrived.)
Edit: Yet another question:

Setting aside the optional dual for a moment, does the plural indicate 'more than one' or 'two or more'? (This can be a somewhat tricky question...)
Last edited by Xing on 09 Aug 2017 21:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by GamerGeek »

Xing wrote:
Edit: Yet another questions:

Setting aside the optional dual for a moment, does the plural indicate 'more than one' or 'two or more'? (This can be a somewhat tricky question...)
"another questions"
What's the difference?
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by alynnidalar »

There's numbers between 1 and 2, you know--I assume Xing is asking if something like "1.5" takes the singular or plural.
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