Cissian

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Heinrich von Preußen
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Re: Cissian

Post by Heinrich von Preußen »

I'll answer later too (Im not at home), and now I, d like only how Cissian alphabet looked before roforms in 1919.
Und kann ich um einen beispielhaften Text bitten? :)
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Re: Cissian

Post by zyma »

Henryk Pruthenia wrote:And, BTW, this, how Cyrillic script have been adopted for smaller languages of Russia is very, very bad argument.
I disagree. Why do you think that? I agree with this:
ixals wrote:Also what Frislander said about the Circassian language: A letter can get a new sound value when the script is adapted by another language, but in this case I didn't do that so what Cissian does isn't even that "weird".
Henryk Pruthenia wrote:I'm just corious, why "sʲtʲ" have become unchanged, when "tʲ" not.
That's what I was trying to say. Sometimes, even in natural languages, the changes we expect to happen don't always happen.
ixals wrote:/stʲ/ doesn't change because I wanted to have some more native words that didn't change /tʲ/ into /t͡sʲ/. I think I once read about a language that did it similarly.
Henryk Pruthenia wrote:Ajm soł sori for maj inglisz. It iz wery bad.
Was that really necessary? Do you think we're trying to antagonize you?

At least for me, your English isn't the problem. You don't speak/write poorly. However, your logic is what's hard to comprehend. We're just trying to understand where you're coming from.
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Lao Kou
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Re: Cissian

Post by Lao Kou »

ixals wrote:
Henryk Pruthenia wrote:And I can't understand, why all English-speakers use this order of cases? :P
I know the order of cases is different for most Slavic languages but the English-speakers' order is more pleasing to my eye. I'm also more used to this order and my native language German does it like this as well. The accusative not coming right after the nominative is very weird to me because it is a very common case.
This may be an age thing. In the Latin, German, and Ancient Greek books I had access to back in high school, it was always:

nom.
gen.
dat.
acc.
(abl. (L.))

When I came back to such books years later, in German at least, there seemed to be a paradigm shift to nom./acc./gen./dat., which messed with my head at first and is still a little jarring. Online, I found both ngda and nagd for both Latin and Ancient Greek; Slavic resources I have stick with ngda, but even there, I found one nagd declension chart for Russian (looked like it was aimed at L2 learners).

There's a method to the madness, I guess. Nominative and accusative forms are often the same:

German feminines, neuters, and plurals.
Latin neuters; 3rd, 4th, and 5th declension plurals.
Russian neuters and inanimate masculines.
etc.

Too, nagd is the order you might want to introduce the cases in if you were teaching an L2 (First, making sentences with subjects; then, making sentences with subjects and direct objects).

Still, one is often most comfortable with what one's teethed on, so English-speaking me of a certain age is more accustomed to ngda, while German ixals who, I'll hazard a guess, is rather younger than I prefers nagd.
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Ashtăr Balynestjăr
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Re: Cissian

Post by Ashtăr Balynestjăr »

I use nom.-voc.-acc.-inst.-dat.-abl.-gen.-loc.
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Re: Cissian

Post by Iyionaku »

In the end it's mostly a matter of convention. For my conlang Caelian, I use Nom - Acc - Dat - Gen, while for Paatherye I use Nom - Gen - Dat - Acc. I actually never questioned that logic before reading this thread.
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Re: Cissian

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien »

Ashtăr Balynestjăr wrote:I use nom.-voc.-acc.-inst.-dat.-abl.-gen.-loc.
I use this grouping too, only switching "gen. loc." with "dat. abl. inst.". The reason being that these form syncretic groups in my conlang, but I based this order on PIE reconstructions. nom/voc/acc are the "strong" cases. The rest are "weak", with "dat/abl/inst" sharing some plural forms and "gen/loc" sharing a dual.

Sorry to derail your conlang thread. I like it, though, including the Cyrillic orthography :)
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Re: Cissian

Post by ixals »

Comments:
Spoiler:
Henryk Pruthenia wrote:I'll answer later too (Im not at home), and now I, d like only how Cissian alphabet looked before roforms in 1919.
I thought about doing a post on that later, but for now I'd say е/ё/э were either written all as e or as е/ö/ъе, the old nasal vowels written with ѧ/ѩ/ѫ/ѭ, etymological щ, etymological ѣ and no distinction between г/ғ.
Henryk Pruthenia wrote:Und kann ich um einen beispielhaften Text bitten? :)
It took me some time, because Cissian isn't that well developed yet but I translated Schleicher's Fabel. You can see it at the end of this post! [;)] (I hope the example text referred to Modern Cissian, not the one with old orthography)
Lao Kou wrote:Still, one is often most comfortable with what one's teethed on, so English-speaking me of a certain age is more accustomed to ngda, while German ixals who, I'll hazard a guess, is rather younger than I prefers nagd.
That's probably it. The one I prefer the most is actually nadg because it reflects how common each case is in spoken German. But I have no idea where I got that from now that I think about it. Wikipedia/Wiktionary prefer ngda except for this chart. But if I had to choose between nagd and ngda, I'd definitely pick nagd.
KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:Sorry to derail your conlang thread. I like it, though, including the Cyrillic orthography :)
It was an interesting discussion though! [:D] But thank you, I had my problems with finding a good orthography at first but I am happy with how it turned out now!
Text 1: Schleicher's Fable

Henryk Pruthenia asked for a text, so I translated Schleicher's Fable. The English translation used here is a bit different compared to the official translation here, because I want it to be as close as possible to the Cissian one. I also want to add that I made some smaller changes. Instead of /v/, в is now generally pronounced as /ʋ/. And I replaced the letter ґ with ғ, mainly because ғ sticks out more. I couldn't see the difference between г and ґ in my dictionary and it bothered me a bit. I think that was all, so here is Schleicher's Fable:

Войца и Конi
На мағурi войца, ктера нема влнэ, увiдяла-е конi - едян тёгнэл-е тёжки воз, други несл-е велiки тегрет, и трецi брзо несл-е мэшiнэ.
Войца рекла-е конем: «Сярцэ мё болi, коди вisiм, как чловяк езi конямi». Конi реклi-сэ: «Слушай, войца, нас боля сярца, коди вisiмо,
как чловяк, гпан, бере войцэ влна и творi сi з нi тёплэ рухо. А войца нема влнэ». Услушавши то, войца побяжала-е в поле.

/ʋoi̯ˈt͡sa i ˈko.nʲi
na maˈgu.rʲi ʋoi̯ˈt͡sa kʲtʲeˈra nʲeˈma ˈʋl̩.ne uˈʋʲi.dʲa.la.je ˈko.nʲi | jeˈdʲan tʲoˈɦne.lʲe ˈtʲo.ʃki ʋos druˈɦi ˈnʲe.sʲlʲe ʋʲeˈlʲiki ˈtʲe.ɦʲrʲet i ˈtʲrʲe.t͡sʲi ˈbr̩.zo ˈnʲe.sʲlʲe meˈʃʲi.ne |
ʋoi̯ˈt͡sa rʲeˈkla.je ˈko.nʲem ˈsʲar.t͡se mʲo boˈlʲi koˈdi ˈʋʲi.d͡zʲim kak ˈje.zʲi ˈko.nʲa.mʲi | ˈko.nʲi rʲeˈkʲlʲi.se ˈslu.ʃai̯ ʋoi̯ˈt͡sa nas boˈlʲa sʲarˈt͡sa koˈdi ˈʋʲ.d͡zʲi.mo
kak t͡ʃloˈʋʲak ɦpan bʲeˈrʲe ʋoi̯ˈt͡se ˈʋl̩.na i tfoˈrʲi sʲiːz nʲi ˈtʲo.ple ˈru.xo | a ʋoi̯ˈt͡sa nʲeˈma ˈʋl̩.ne | uˈslu.ʃau̯.ʃi to ʋoi̯ˈt͡sa po.bʲaˈʒa.la.je u̯ ˈpo.lʲe/

The Sheep and the Horses
On a hill, a sheep which has no wool saw horses - one pulled a heavy cart, the second carried a big load, and the third carried a man quickly.
The sheep said to the horses: "My heart pains me, when I see how a man is riding horses." The horses said: "Hear, sheep, our hearts pain us when we see
how a man, the master, takes a sheep's wool and makes a warm garment for himself out of it. And the sheep has no wool." Having heard this, the sheep ran into the field.


Romanisation:
Spoiler:
Vojcá i Kónji
Na magúrji vojcá, ktjerá njemá vĺne, uvjídjala-je kónji - jedján tjohnél-je tjóžki voz, druhí njesl-je vjeljíki tjéhrjet, i trjécji bŕzo njesl-je mešjíne.
Vojcá rjeklá-je kónjem: "Sjárce mjo boljí, kodí vjídzjim, kak človják jézji kónjamji." Kónji rjekljí-se: "Slúšaj, vojcá, nas boljá sjarcá, kodí vjídzjimo,
kak človják, hpán, bjerjé vojcé vĺna i tvorjí sji iz nji tjóple rúxo. A vojcá njemá vĺne." Uslúšavši to, vojcá pobjažála-je v pólje.
Gloss:

На мағурi войца, ктера нема влнэ, увiдяла-е конi - едян тёгнэл-е тёжки воз, други несл-е велiки тегрет, и трецi брзо несл-е мэшiнэ.
Na magúrji vojcá, ktjerá njemá vĺne, uvjídjala-je kónji - jedján tjohnél-je tjóžki voz, druhí njesl-je vjeljíki tjéhrjet, i trjécji bŕzo njesl-je mešjíne.
on hill-LOC sheep-SG.NOM which-SG.F.NOM not.have-3SG wool-SG.GEN PRF-see-PST-F.SG=be.3SG.PRS horse-PL.ACC | one.SG.M.NOM pull-PST=be.3SG.PRS heavy-SG.M.ACC
cart(-SG.ACC) second/other-SG.M.NOM carry.CONC-PST=be.3SG.PRS big-SG.M.ACC load(-SG.ACC) and third-SG.M.NOM quick-ADV carry.CONC-PST=be.3SG.PRS man-SG.ACC


Войца рекла-е конем: «Сярцэ мё болi, коди вisiм, как чловяк езi конямi». Конi реклi-сэ: «Слушай, войца, нас боля сярца, коди вisiмо,
Vojcá rjeklá-je kónjem: "Sjárce mjo boljí, kodí vjídzjim, kak človják jézji kónjamji." Kónji rjekljí-se: "Slúšaj, vojcá, nas boljá sjarcá, kodí vjídzjimo,
sheep-SG.NOM say.PRF-PST-SG.F=be.3SG.PRS horse-PL.DAT | heart-SG.NOM 1SG.ACC hurt-3SG when see-1SG how human-SG.NOM ride.ABST-3SG horse-PL-INST | horse-PL-NOM
say.PRF-PST-PL.M=be.3PL.PRS | hear-2SG.IMPR sheep-SG.NOM 1PL.ACC hurt-3PL heart.PL.NOM when see-1PL


как чловяк, гпан, бере войцэ влна и творi сi з нi тёплэ рухо. А войца нема влнэ». Услушавши то, войца побяжала-е в поле.
kak človják, hpán, bjerjé vojcé vĺna i tvorjí sji iz nji tjóple rúxo. A vojcá njemá vĺne." Uslúšavši to, vojcá pobjažála-je v pólje.
how human-SG.NOM | master-SG.NOM | take-3SG sheep-SG.GEN wool-SG.ACC and make-3SG REFL.DAT from 3SG.F.GEN warm-SG.N.ACC garment-SG.ACC | and
sheep-SG.NOM not.have-3SG wool-SG.GEN | PRF-hear-PST.ADV-SG.M this-SG.N.ACC | sheep-SG.NOM PRF-run.CONC-PST-SG.F=be.3SG.PRS in field-SG.ACC
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Re: Cissian

Post by zyma »

Excellent work! That was fast, too.
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Re: Cissian

Post by ixals »

Thank you, shimo! It took me a whole evening though. [:$]

Nouns 2: Irregular Nouns

Retained Duals

There are four nouns (so far) that have retained the Proto-Slavic dual. They are not used as dual forms however, they replaced the plural form completely. All of these four nouns are body parts that exist two times on the human body, that's why the dual came to be used instead of the plural. These nouns are во́ко/vóko ("eye"), у́хо/úcho ("ear"), нога́/nohá ("leg/foot") and рэка́/reká ("arm/hand").

Image

As seen, a notable feature of these nouns is that they also undergo consonant changes due to Slavic palatalisations. The two neuters change in the plural and the locative singular (vok- > voč- ; ux- > ušj-), although colloquially this form is regular, and the two feminines in dative/locative singular and nominative/accusative plural (noh- > nodz- ; rek- > rec-).

Monosyllabic Masculines

Another "regular" irregularity are monosyllabic masculines. I saw this in Serbo-Croation and I liked it so I wanted Cissian to have it as well with little changes. The only difference are the plural forms with their added infix before the case suffix. Depending on the masculine noun class, this suffix is either -ов/-ov, -эв/-ev or -ев/-jev. An exception is the genitive as it already has that suffix is normal masculines nouns. An example for a noun like this is ас/as ("ace"), a German loan.

Image

Not every monosyllabic masculine is declined like this though. It is also not possible to identify whether a word has a long or a short plural. So far, only two nouns have a long plural. Ас/as ("ace") and град/hrad ("castle, fortress (rarely: town, city)"). I will try to add more nouns featuring this irregularity in a spoiler below later on.
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Heinrich von Preußen
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Re: Cissian

Post by Heinrich von Preußen »

Why is there -э́ in genetive of ногa?
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Re: Cissian

Post by ixals »

Reply:
Spoiler:
Henryk Pruthenia wrote:Why is there -э́ in genetive of ногa?
Analogy and sound changes. The nominative, accusative and genitive had very different outcomes depending on the noun class (in the first spoiler here you can see how it would've looked like without changing anything). I took the final /e/ of the genitive from u-stem and r-stem nouns. As the genitive and accusative of the very common a-stems were /ɨ ~ ɨ̃/ for a while, the /ɨ/ changed to /e/ because both sounds also change fairly often in other Slavic languages (e.g. *netopyrjь > Pl. nietoperz; *motyljь > Uk. metélyk). I wanted each case to be a bit different from each other because I personally didn't like it if the masculine and neuter have a different ending for each case while the feminine endings are -(j)i for almost every case.
So yeah, it's been almost a month and I had this post ready for some weeks but I was too lazy to finish it and I always told myself that I'll do it later. So today I'll finally get myself to do that. It's a shorter post again, but at least it's something! [:D] The program I used to work with suddenly thought it was a nice idea to not work anymore so I tried to reinstall it but I can't install it anymore so I really thought I lost everything for a second. Luckily I managed to switch programs but I am not happy with the one I am using right now which takes a bit of the fun away, for me at least. [:(]

Adjectives 1: Declension

Just as it's done with nouns, Cissian adjectives are declined for case, number and gender. The adjectival declension is at least simpler since the plural forms don't differentiate gender at all except for one exception and the singular has many forms that share endings with other genders. Cissian also doesn't feature a distinction of indefinite and definite forms like Serbo-Croatian. There is also only one declension as opposed to all the noun declension that exist. But some adjectives are "a bit irregular" if the last consonant is a soft consonant. An example of this is ри́џi (rídzji, meaning "reddish, ginger (hair)") which actually declines like a regular adjective, but due to the palatalised consonant some cases merge and this softness is also very apparent in the orthography. The second tables shows the endings for such an adjective. It is also very easy to identify if an adjective if soft or not because soft adjectives always end in -i whereas normal adjectives end in -и.

Image

Image
  • The singular locative merges with the instrumental for regular adjectives in colloquial speech because they are similar sounding and as they are already the same for soft adjectives. The form used for both is -им.
  • Another common colloquial thing to do is the change from nominative plural -i to -a (or -я for soft adjectives). This results in a shared plural declension for all three genders which already exists in other Slavic languages.

Nothing more for now, but I am still working on Cissian (which surprises me a bit!) [:D]
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Re: Cissian

Post by ixals »

Old version of this post:
Spoiler:
This post's topic will be the basic numerals. This includes number one to ten and their declensions which are a bit more unique but also simpler as they don't decline as much as - for example -
adjectives or nouns, bar number one. I will also list the most common bigger numbers afterwards in a simple list, as I haven't looked at them in more detail and just created the words for my dictionary for the time being.

Numerals 1: Numbers 1 to 10 (Hi JANKO)

1 - Jédjan

Jedján/едя́н is the most grammatically complex cardinal number in Cissian. Its declension resembles the declension of adjectives in many ways although it also varies in a lot of forms. The most notable differences are the masculine nominative singular and the different vowel in the case suffixes (e.g. -o- instead of -e-, -ja- instead of -i-). This numeral is also never used as an indefinite pronoun like some European languages do, it's mostly used to emphasise that there really is just one. If it is used more indefinitely, it's meaning tends to be more like "some". This is also the meaning it has in its plural forms.

мя́сто /ˈmʲa.sto/
a town / the town

едно́ мя́сто /jeˌno ˈmʲa.sto/
one town/some town

една́ мяста́ /jeˌna mʲaˈsta/
some towns

Another peculiarity of едя́н can be seen here: In forms that contain the consonant cluster dn/дн, the d/д is not pronounced. This is one of the very few words that are pronounced differently than written. The reduction of /dn/ to just /n/ is common in many dialects and especially among younger speakers, but it is not recognised in the standard languages except in this word.

Image

Just like adjectives, jédjan undergoes the same mergers in colloquial speech. The locative singular едно́м" merges with the instrumental into едни́м. The two asterisks in the nominative/accusative plural forms mark two different things though. The masculine accusative plural is often changed to едні́ while the feminine nominative/accusative plural is only една́ in the standard language, most dialects still retain the older form едни́. This means that the four variations "едні́/една́/една́", "едні́/една́/едни́", "едни́/една́/една́", "едни́/една́/едни́ (masc./fem./neut.) all exist when spoken. "едні́/една́/една́" is the most common one for a reason that can be seen in the next numeral. Although the merging forms differ a bit more from one another compared to the adjectival counterparts, the reason for the merger here is that they are carried over from adjectives due to analogy.

2 - Dva

This is where the cardinal numbers already start to get a lot simpler. And this is also why "едні́/една́/една́" is the most common variation because the accusative endings for dva/два are exactly the opposite ("едні́/една́/една́" vs. "два/дві/дві"). In my mind, Cissians have a kind of wrong spelling that tells one to swap the endings for one and two for those who speak a dialect that doesn't have една́ as the feminine plural so they have an easier time to remember that it's една́ in the standard language and not едни́. Of course, this was applied wrongly. Following nouns are plural.

Image

Although not decided yet, I think I'll also create a lot of dialectal differences for the genitive/locative forms because Proto-Slavic *dvoju was shortened differently in every dialects. This will probably lead to forms like двов/двоў/дву/двою.

3/4 - Trji & Četírji

From now on, numbers will appear in pairs in this list since the following numbers bear striking phonological and declensional (?) resemblances. Compared to два, трі's and чэти́рі's declension is closer to that of едя́н's plural. The only difference now is that there is no gender difference in the nominative/accusative and the instrumental ending is not -і́мi but -мі́. In the case of these two numbers I could as well already add that most derived words feature a syllabic /r/. And again, following nouns are plural.

Image

5/6 - Pjot & Šest

A new addition of numerals from five onwords is that all of them are declined the same way. Also, in combination with numeral five and higher, nouns that should be in nominative or accusative are in genitive (plural) instead while the numeral still is in the respective case the noun should be in. So:

два градо́вi [tick]
two.NOM fortress-PL-NOM

пёт градо́вi [cross]
five.NOM fortress-PL-NOM

пёт градо́в [tick]
five.NOM fortress-PL(-GEN)

Image

Due to sound changes, the dative of пёт is пёці́ and not пёті́.

7/8 - Sjédjam & Vósjam

These are declined and used exactly like the two numerals before. Both of them sound very similar and as a result, they have the same two irregularities. First: both я's are a so-called "fleeting я", so they disappear when a suffix is added (similar to едя́н). Second: The instrumental and the dative are the same since *седммі́ wouldn't be possible, therefore the instrumental is reduced to седмі́ which makes it identical with the dative.

Image

9/10 - Djévjot/Djésjot

Two very similar sounding numbers that decline exactly like пёт and шэст. Nothing more two add. I might add a colloquial replacement for де́сёт to avoid confusion due to the similarity of the two. Like дварэца́/дварца́ ("two hands") and it's used for telling a phone number on the telephone (I heard Brazilian Portuguese does it as well?).

Image

Numerals 2: List of Common Numbers

Numbers 1 to 10 are exactly like I've listed them above.

1. едя́н /jeˈdʲan/
2. два /ˈdʋa/
3. трi /ˈtʲrʲi/
4. чэти́рi /t͡ʃeˈti.rʲi/
5. пёт /ˈpʲot/
6. шэст /ˈʃest/
7. се́дям /ˈsʲe.dʲam/
8. во́сям /ˈʋo.sʲam/
9. де́вёт /ˈdʲe.ʋʲot/
10. де́сёт /ˈdʲe.sʲot/

Numbers 11 to 19 are basically numbers 1 to 9 with the suffix -на́цёт, a reduced form of Proto-Slavic "[number] na desęte" ("[number] on ten").

11. едянна́цёт /je.dʲanˈna.t͡sʲot/
12. двана́цёт /dʋaˈna.t͡sʲot/
13. трiна́цёт /tʲrʲiˈna.t͡sʲot/
14. чэтрна́цёт /t͡ʃe.tr̩ˈna.t͡sʲot/
15. пётна́цёт /pʲoˈtna.t͡sʲot/
16. шэстна́цёт /ʃeˈstna.t͡sʲot/
17. седямна́цёт /sʲe.dʲaˈmna.t͡sʲot/
18. восямна́цёт /ʋo.sʲaˈmna.t͡sʲot/
19. девётна́цёт /dʲe.ʋʲoˈtna.t͡sʲot/

Numbers of 20, 30 and 40 are very similar to the above, they just remove the -на́- and the stress goes onto the preceding syllable. This is another reduction and originally meant "[number] tens", e.g. "two tens" for "twenty". Numbers of tens that are higher than 40 simply add -десё́т instead of -цёт. This derives from the Proto-Slavic genitive plural of де́сёт since numbers 5 and higher were followed by a noun in that case. Notice the difference in stress in де́сёт and -десё́т. If a number ends in a /t/, that /t/ is deleted.

20. два́цёт /ˈdʋa.t͡sʲot/
30. трі́цёт /ˈtʲrʲi.t͡sʲot/
40. чэтр́цёт /t͡ʃeˈtr̩.t͡sʲot/
50. пёдесё́т /pʲo.dʲeˈsʲot/
60. шэсдесё́т /ʃe.zdʲeˈsʲot/
70. седямдесё́т /sʲe.dʲam.dʲeˈsʲot/
80. восямдесё́т /ʋo.sʲam.dʲeˈsʲot/
90. девёдесё́т /dʲe.ʋʲo.dʲeˈsʲot/

The number hundred has its own word.

100. сто /ˈsto/

Other hundreds have the same distinction as the tens. So 200, 300 and 400 add the old plural of сто whereas higher hundreds are suffixed with the old genitive plural of сто which also takes the stress. 600 also exists as шэся́т in one dialects. It's the expected outcome but the standard шестса́т has been created analogically to all other hundreds.

200. дві́ста /ˈdʲʋʲ.sta/
300. трі́ста /ˈtʲrʲi.sta/
400. чэтр́ста /t͡ʃeˈtr̩.sta/
500. пётса́т /pʲoˈt͡sat/
600. шестса́т /ʃeˈst͡sat/
700. седямса́т /sʲedʲamˈsat/
800. восямса́т /ʋo.sʲamˈsat/
900. девётса́т /dʲe.ʋʲoˈt͡sat/

Now I will only list the big "milestones". Cissian uses the long scale.

1,000. ти́сёчя /ˈti.sʲo.t͡ʃʲa/
1,000,000. милё́н /miˈlʲon/
1,000,000,000. миля́рда /miˈlʲar.da/
1,000,000,000,000. билё́н /biˈlʲon/
... etc.

I'm very exhausted after writing all of this down now. [xD]
Cardinal numbers
work in progress

All numbers are listed in their nominative form.

1. едян* yedyán /jeˈɟan/
2. два* dva /ˈdʋa/
3. трi tryi /ˈtri/
4. чотырi čotéryi /t͡ʂoˈtɛr.ji/
5. пет pyet /ˈpʲet/
6. шыст šest /ˈʂɛst/
7. седям syédyam /ˈsʲe.ɟam/
8. восям vósyam /ˈʋɔ.sʲam/
9. девет dyévyet /ˈdʲe.ʋʲet/
10. десет dyésyet /ˈdʲe.sʲet/

*only masculine form shown

Numbers eleven to nineteen are formed by adding “-надцет” at the end. The “д” is not pronounced and purely etymological.

11. едяннадцет yedyannádcyet /je.ɟaˈna.t͡sʲet/
12. дванадцет dvanádcyet /dʋaˈna.t͡sʲet/
13. трiнадцет tryinádcyet /triˈna.t͡sʲet/
14. чотрнадцет* čotrnádcyet /t͡ʂo.tr̩ˈna.t͡sʲet/
15. петнадцет pyetnádcyet /pʲetˈna.t͡sʲet/
16. шыстнадцет šestnádcyet /ʂestˈna.t͡sʲet/
17. седямнадцет syedyamnádcyet /sʲe.ɟamˈna.t͡sʲet/
18. восямнадцет vosyamnádcyet /ʋo.sʲamˈna.t͡sʲet/
19. деветнадцет dyevyetnádcyet /dʲe.ʋʲetˈna.t͡sʲet/

*“чотырi” irregularly changes to “чотр-” in many derivations

Numbers twenty, thirty and forty are formed by adding “-дцет” to “два”, “трi” and “чотырi”. The remaining tenners are suffixed with “-десят”.

20. двадцет dvádcyet /ˈdʋa.t͡sʲet/
30. трiдцет tryídcyet /ˈtri.t͡sʲet/
40. чотрдцет čotŕdcyet /t͡ʂoˈtr̩.t͡sʲet/
50. петдесят pyetdyesyát /pʲe.dʲeˈsʲat/
60. шыстдесят šestdyesyát /ʂez.dʲeˈsʲat/
70. седямдесят syedyamdyesyát /sʲe.ɟam.dʲeˈsʲat/
80. восямдесят vosyamdyesyát /ʋo.sʲam.dʲeˈsʲat/
90. деветдесят dyevyetdyesyát /dʲe.ʋʲe.dʲeˈsʲat/

Hundred itself is “сто”. Similar to the tenners, the first three hundreds take “-ста” while the others take “-сат”.

100. сто sto /ˈstɔ/
200. двіста* dvyísta /ˈdʲʋʲ.sta/
300. тріста tryísta /ˈtri.sta/
400. чотрста čotŕsta /t͡ʂoˈtr̩.sta/
500. петсат pyetsát /pʲeˈt͡sat/
600. шыстсат* šestsát /ʂesˈt͡sat/
700. седямсат syedyamsát /sʲe.ɟamˈsat/
800. восямсат vosyamsát /ʋo.sʲamˈsat/
900. деветсат dyevyetsát /dʲe.ʋʲeˈt͡sat/

*“двіста”: originally “двістe” but was regularised due to influence by “трістa”
*“шыстсат”: expected pronunciation is /ʂeˈsʲat/ but this irregularity was levelled out, partly because of the conservative spelling


The rest of the numbers is currently being revisited and will be added when it's done.
Last edited by ixals on 05 Feb 2018 23:28, edited 2 times in total.
Native: :deu:
Learning: :gbr:, :chn:, :tur:, :fra:

Zhér·dûn a tonal Germanic conlang

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ixals
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Re: Cissian

Post by ixals »

I've started to like Cissian's sound changes less and less lately, especially the nasal ones, so I'm giving Cissian's history a little makeover in hopes that it's a bit more realistic. Being inpired by Bulgarian, I also added a new vowel that's currently pronounced /ɘ/ but it's also pronounced as /ə/, /ɵ/ or /ɤ/ depending on the dialect and the speaker.

Sound changes
Spoiler:
{xʲ tʲ dʲ}/{ç c ɟ}/_
/j/#_{i ĭ e ẽ i̯æ a}
j/ʲ/C_
C/Cʲ/_{i ĭ e ẽ i̯æ}
i̯æ/æ/_
{ĭ ŭ}/{i ɨ}/_j
{ĭ ŭ}R{ĭ ŭ}/R̩/C_C
{ĭ ŭ}//_%...V[-ĭ;-ŭ]
{ĭ ŭ}//_#
{ĭ ŭ}/ə/_
{k g}/{t͡s d͡z}/_wV[+front]
oR/Ra/_ ! _V
eR/Ræ/_ ! _V
ẽ/ã/_
~ ojo-contractions ~
~ East Slavic accent ~
/w/#_{o õ}
ɨ/e/_%...a
ɨ/e/_{r w}
ɨ/i/_
g/ɣ/_
ə/a/_
ʲ//{t͡s d͡z t͡ʃ d͡ʒ ʃ ʒ}_
e/o/{t͡ʃ d͡ʒ}/_ ! "_
ʲæ/ʲi/_%...V[+front]
ʲæ/ʲe/_
æ/e/_%...V[+front]
æ/ea̯/_ ! _#
æ/e/_
{ã õ}/{a u}/_#
ʲã/ʲe/_%...V[+front]
ʲã/ʲa/_
ã/a/_%...V[+front]
ã/ɐ/_
ʲõ/u/_
õ/u/_Cʲ
õ/ʊ/_
ɣ/ʕ/_
R̩ʲ/R̩/_
{lʲ nʲ}/{ʎ ɲ}/_
{c ɟ}/{jtʲ jdʲ}/_#
{c ɟ}/{jtʲ jdʲ}/_C
{ç c ɟ}/{ʃʲ t͡ʃʲ d͡ʒʲ}/_
{tʲ dʲ}/{t͡sʲ d͡zʲ}/_i ! {s z}_
{ʃt͡ʃ ʒd͡ʒ st͡s zd͡z}/{ʃː ʒː sː zː}
l/o̯/V_C
oo̯/o/_
uw/u/_C
iw/ju/_C
io̯/jo/_
ijV/jV/_ ! #_
j/i/#_C
wʲ/j/_C ! _#
ea̯/ɐ/_
{ʃː ʒː sː zː}/{ʃʲ ʒʲ sʲ zʲ}/_
j/ʲ/C_
ʕ/ɑ/C_C
ʕ/ɦ/_
{sR̩ zR̩}/{stR̩ zdR̩}/_
{sr zr}/{str zdr}/_
ɑ/ɐ/_
{ʊ ɐ}/ɵ/_
ʲ//_#
w/ʋ/_ ! _C
w/u̯/_
Cʲ/C/_C[-palatalised]
C/Cʲ/_C[+palatalised]
Allophones
{t͡ʃʲ d͡ʒʲ ʃʲ ʒʲ tʲ dʲ}/{t͡ɕ d͡ʑ ɕ ʑ c ɟ}/_
{t͡ʃ d͡ʒ ʃ ʒ}/{t͡ʂ d͡ʐ ʂ ʐ}/_
{e o}/{ɛ ɔ}/"_ ! [C+palatalised]_
zd/zd͡z/_
{dn bm}/{n m}/_
ɦ//V_C
rʲ/rj/V_V
rʲ/r/_
C[+voiced]/C[+voiceless]/_#
Some before-and-afters of words that changed:

саўнцэ > стлнцы “sun”
sáunce /ˈsau̯n.t͡se/ > stĺnce /ˈstl̩n.t͡se/

сярцэ > стрдцы “heart”
sjárce /ˈsʲar.t͡se/ > stŕdce /ˈstr̩.t͡se/

этроба > вътроба “womb”
etróba /eˈtro.ba/ > vytróba /ʋɘˈtrɔ.ba/

матка > майтка “mother (dim.)”
mátka /ˈma.tka/ > máytka /ˈmai̯t.ka/

с ѕняздом > с гнездом “with the nest”
s dznjazdóm /z‿d͡zʲnʲaˈzdom/ > s hnyezdóm /sɘ.ɲeˈzd͡zɔm/

Бявград > Белград “Belgrade”
Bjávhrad /ˈbʲau̯.ɦrat/ > Byélhrad /ˈbʲeo̯.rat/

десёт > десет “ten”
djesjót /dʲeˈsʲot/ > dyesyét /ɟeˈsʲet/

малiсти > мълiсти “foggy”
maljísti /maˈlʲi.sti/ > mylyísti /mɘˈʎis.ti/

корен > корень “root”
kórjen /ˈko.rʲen/ > kóryen' /ˈkɔr.jeɲ/

жилэ > жили “vein (gen. sg.)”
žíle /ˈʒi.le/ > žíli /ˈʐi.li/

жил > жил “vein (gen. pl.)”
žil /ˈʒil/ > žil /ˈʑo/

As you can see, some words changed a lot (e.g. “стлнцы”, “с гнездом”) but most stayed the same. The biggest change is probably the loss of truly phonemical /ʲo/. It still exists in loanwords and transcriptions that contain a /jo/ or /ø/ like Győr or Yokohama, in which case they are written with the Russian borrowed “ё”. In Cissian words, as shown in the last two example words, /ʲo/ exists only as an allophone of - yes - /il/ when not followed by another vowel. The underlying form of /ˈʑo/ is /ˈʐil/. In native Cissian words, the sound is written as “ил”.

I'll update the older posts sooner or later, probably later. [:P]
Native: :deu:
Learning: :gbr:, :chn:, :tur:, :fra:

Zhér·dûn a tonal Germanic conlang

old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs
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