New Weekly Indo European Collablang
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- cuneiform
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
Sorry about that, I will make sure to give everyone a notice about when voting ends next time onward. This project has been really fun and thought-provoking. Once again, I'll make sure to warn you guys about when voting closes.
In the meantime, anyone interested can post a list of loanwords that would make sense for this language to borrow.
Areas Include
Religion (this is a big one)
Trade (big one)
Metals
Agriculture (tools etc)
In fact, I have a lot of work to do myself , so I won't be able to get to this until maybe Thursday.
In the meantime, anyone interested can post a list of loanwords that would make sense for this language to borrow.
Areas Include
Religion (this is a big one)
Trade (big one)
Metals
Agriculture (tools etc)
In fact, I have a lot of work to do myself , so I won't be able to get to this until maybe Thursday.
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- cuneiform
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
I've also been adding more declensions to my spreadsheet.
Our phonological inventory is:
/m n/
/p b t d tʂ dʐ tɕ dʑ k g/
/f θ s ʂ ʐ ɕ ʑ x/
/l r j w/
/i ī u ū/
/ǝ o ō/
/a ā/
I imagine /a o/ are probably around /æ ɔ/ to preserve maximal distinction.
There are some details of the noun declension that we're gonna need to vote on, since the PIE reconstructions aren't perfect. For example, the genitive plural ending is reconstructed variously as *-ōm and *-oHom. I'm using the former, which gives -aum and -ōm but if we used the latter we would get -awam and ōom (> -ōm?) (unstressed and stressed forms, respectively). There also seems to be no clear indication whether or not the locative singular had an *-i or not (I've included both forms in my tables) so we'll have to vote on whether we use it or not.
Also, something I just noticed—should we collapse or not collapse vowel+glide+vowel vs. diphthong+glide? I've been doing this, so -awam as above as opposed to -auam. This would have an effect on stress placement. We could go the other way and collapse both into diphthong+glide or keep them distinct.
Spoiler:
/m n/
/p b t d tʂ dʐ tɕ dʑ k g/
/f θ s ʂ ʐ ɕ ʑ x/
/l r j w/
/i ī u ū/
/ǝ o ō/
/a ā/
I imagine /a o/ are probably around /æ ɔ/ to preserve maximal distinction.
There are some details of the noun declension that we're gonna need to vote on, since the PIE reconstructions aren't perfect. For example, the genitive plural ending is reconstructed variously as *-ōm and *-oHom. I'm using the former, which gives -aum and -ōm but if we used the latter we would get -awam and ōom (> -ōm?) (unstressed and stressed forms, respectively). There also seems to be no clear indication whether or not the locative singular had an *-i or not (I've included both forms in my tables) so we'll have to vote on whether we use it or not.
Also, something I just noticed—should we collapse or not collapse vowel+glide+vowel vs. diphthong+glide? I've been doing this, so -awam as above as opposed to -auam. This would have an effect on stress placement. We could go the other way and collapse both into diphthong+glide or keep them distinct.
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- cuneiform
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
Yeah, I like your idea for the changes to the multiple vowel and glide sequences. We can vote on it later with realistic options. We also need to deal with clusters like θs t͡ʃθs & tx. Any suggestions with how to do how to deal with it? We could vote to keep tx, but θs t͡ʃθs are nearly unpronounceable.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
On one hand, I agree that they are a bit ridiculous. But at the same time I think it would be cool to have these crazy clusters in the ancient form and see what they become in the daughter languages. I guess that's another thing to vote on.
Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
I prefer the gliding option and agree with vo1dwalk3r about the crazy clusters remaining for now simply because the longer they remain, the better it is for "Caucasianisation". Like, how about certain clusters giving rise to ejectives somewhere down the line? Something simple like unconditional /pt tt kt θs t͡ʃθ/ > /pʼ tʼ kʼ sʼ t͡sʼ/ would probably be too boring and could lead to all kinds of problems later on, but something like that happening eventually due to centuries of influence from all the neighbouring Caucasian languages might be interesting and realistic enough?
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- cuneiform
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
26 . Vowel Glide Sequences (What happens ?) *** Thanks vo1dwalk3r for the suggestions ****
a. Should we collapse or not collapse vowel+glide+vowel vs. diphthong+glide? so -awam as above as opposed to -auam. This would have an effect on stress placement.
b.We could go the other way and collapse both into diphthong+glide
c.or keep them distinct.
27. Developing New Cases
a. Yes (many more cases)
b. Yes ( a few more)
c. No
d. Let's lose some more
28. Suffixaufnahme : Consider it? Links below
a. Yes
b. N
29. Crazy consonant clusters (θs t͡ʃθs & tx) : How do we deal with them? ( May lead to ejectives later on)
a. Keep tx, but do something with the other two kinds(Vote another option below as well)
b. Epenthesis
c. Hardening ( θs > ts, something like that we'll vote on what it'll be later)
d. Do nothing (yet)
30. Loanwords ( Where do we borrow the most) (Can vote for multiple ones)
a. Trade
b. Religion
c. Metallurgy
d. Agriculture
e. Societal terms (chief, leader, etc)
Voting ends at GMT 15:00 on Saturday
Links
http://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/mkrach ... fnahme.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffixaufnahme
a. Should we collapse or not collapse vowel+glide+vowel vs. diphthong+glide? so -awam as above as opposed to -auam. This would have an effect on stress placement.
b.We could go the other way and collapse both into diphthong+glide
c.or keep them distinct.
27. Developing New Cases
a. Yes (many more cases)
b. Yes ( a few more)
c. No
d. Let's lose some more
28. Suffixaufnahme : Consider it? Links below
a. Yes
b. N
29. Crazy consonant clusters (θs t͡ʃθs & tx) : How do we deal with them? ( May lead to ejectives later on)
a. Keep tx, but do something with the other two kinds(Vote another option below as well)
b. Epenthesis
c. Hardening ( θs > ts, something like that we'll vote on what it'll be later)
d. Do nothing (yet)
30. Loanwords ( Where do we borrow the most) (Can vote for multiple ones)
a. Trade
b. Religion
c. Metallurgy
d. Agriculture
e. Societal terms (chief, leader, etc)
Voting ends at GMT 15:00 on Saturday
Links
http://wwwhomes.uni-bielefeld.de/mkrach ... fnahme.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffixaufnahme
Last edited by Cavaliers327 on 16 Feb 2018 15:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
Wouldn't these be #26-30?
21/26: a
22/27: a b
23/28: a
24/29: d
25/30: a b c d e
21/26: a
22/27: a b
23/28: a
24/29: d
25/30: a b c d e
- Frislander
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
26 a
27 b
28 a
29 a (c)
30 a c d
27 b
28 a
29 a (c)
30 a c d
Last edited by Frislander on 17 Feb 2018 13:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
26. a
27. a
28. a
29. c
30. a b c d e
27. a
28. a
29. c
30. a b c d e
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- cuneiform
- Posts: 132
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
I'm extending the voting till the end of the day GMT. More people need to vote
Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
26. A
27. B; develop agentive and pegative cases
28. A
29. D
30. A B C D E
27. B; develop agentive and pegative cases
28. A
29. D
30. A B C D E
Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
26. a
27. b
28. a
29. c
30. a d e
27. b
28. a
29. c
30. a d e
Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
26. b
27. d
28. b
29. c
30. a
27. d
28. b
29. c
30. a
The accusative of <emo> is <eminem>.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
Results
Questions: Extras ( give me your suggestions?)
X. What cases should logically develop next in this language?
X2. Give me your suggestions for the "hardening of fricatives in those clusters?
X3. Loanwords - What phonological processes should loanwords undergo before borrowed into the language?
How different is it from PIE now?
Spoiler:
X. What cases should logically develop next in this language?
X2. Give me your suggestions for the "hardening of fricatives in those clusters?
X3. Loanwords - What phonological processes should loanwords undergo before borrowed into the language?
How different is it from PIE now?
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
Here is the link to the list of loanwords I have compiled.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rZc ... OdaQc/edit
Questions
Edit : Will compile answers Saturday noon. I have a lot of work this week.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rZc ... OdaQc/edit
Questions
Spoiler:
Edit : Will compile answers Saturday noon. I have a lot of work this week.
Last edited by Cavaliers327 on 20 Feb 2018 06:48, edited 1 time in total.
- Frislander
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
31 a
32 b
33 c - (what vo1dwalk3r says below)
34 b
35 a
Also note the weird transliteration of the Akkadian, because that's something to bear in mind when we borrow these words.
32 b
33 c - (what vo1dwalk3r says below)
34 b
35 a
Also note the weird transliteration of the Akkadian, because that's something to bear in mind when we borrow these words.
Last edited by Frislander on 20 Feb 2018 14:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
31. a
32. b
33. c - (vo1dwalk3r's suggestion below)
34. b
35. a
32. b
33. c - (vo1dwalk3r's suggestion below)
34. b
35. a
Last edited by Cavaliers327 on 20 Feb 2018 04:55, edited 1 time in total.
Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
31. a
32. b
33. b
34. b
35. b
32. b
33. b
34. b
35. b
Native:
Learning: , , ,
Zhér·dûn a tonal Germanic conlang
old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs
Learning: , , ,
Zhér·dûn a tonal Germanic conlang
old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang
31. a
32. b
33. c—I suggest we at least borrow the ejectives t’ k’ from Akkadian (we don't have to but it prepares us for the Caucasus, haha). We could also borrow ts dz ts’ or reduce them to s z t’/s’ or something like that. I definitely thing we should also borrow e ē for words borrowed after the vowel shift. I think we should also have them go through at least some of the sound changes; perhaps a very small number before the lenition of aspirated plosives, then more before the vowel shift and some after the vowel shift. It would be interesting being able to see older and younger loans.
34. a
35. a
Also, I've tried to do a bit more of the declension system, which I've documented in a new and neater document here. I've tried to make it as clear as possible so we can see the patterns between nouns.
Also dropping word-final schwas might be problematic with words like podmǝ...
32. b
33. c—I suggest we at least borrow the ejectives t’ k’ from Akkadian (we don't have to but it prepares us for the Caucasus, haha). We could also borrow ts dz ts’ or reduce them to s z t’/s’ or something like that. I definitely thing we should also borrow e ē for words borrowed after the vowel shift. I think we should also have them go through at least some of the sound changes; perhaps a very small number before the lenition of aspirated plosives, then more before the vowel shift and some after the vowel shift. It would be interesting being able to see older and younger loans.
34. a
35. a
Also, I've tried to do a bit more of the declension system, which I've documented in a new and neater document here. I've tried to make it as clear as possible so we can see the patterns between nouns.
Also dropping word-final schwas might be problematic with words like podmǝ...