New Weekly Indo European Collablang

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Cavaliers327
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Cavaliers327 »

Thanks for the sound correspondences. However, all the labiovelars would merge with the velars because this is a satem branch.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by vo1dwalk3r »

11. b
12. b
13.
14. a
15. a

(Looks like Shimo beat me to it [:O]) Making some assumptions about the sound changes (O=plosive/affricate, S=sonorant). We don't have much yet so it's still very much like PIE.

bʰ dʰ ǵʰ gʰ gʷʰ > pʰ tʰ ḱʰ kʰ kʷʰ
ḱʰ ḱ ǵ > tʃʰ tʃ dʒ
kʷʰ kʷ gʷ > kʰ k g
e > a / _h₂, h₂_
e > o / _h₃, h₃_
PH > Pʰ
SH > S̄
H > ∅

ówis etʃwos-ke

áwey yosméy wl̥̄nā́ né ést, só étʃwoms dertʃt. só gr̥̄úm wótʃʰom wetʃʰed; só métʃʰm̥ pʰórom; só tʰtʃʰémonm̥ ṓtʃu pʰered. ówis ékoypʰyos wewked: “tʰtʃʰémonm̥ spétʃyō étʃwoms-ke ádʒeti, tʃḗr moy akʰnutor”. étʃwōs tu wewkond: “tʃlutʰí, owey! tód spétʃyomes, n̥sméy akʰnutór tʃḗr: tʰtʃʰémō, pótis, sē áwyes wl̥̄nā́ kʰérmom wéstrom wept, áwipʰyos tu wl̥̄nā́ né esti. tód tʃetʃluwṓs ówis adʒróm pʰuged.


rḗtʃs déywos-ke

rḗtʃs est; só n̥putlós. rḗtʃs sū́num wl̥nto/wl̥̄nto. tósyo tʃʰéwtorm̥ prētʃst: "sū́nus moy dʒn̥̄yetōd!" tʃʰéwtōr tom rḗdʒm̥ wewked: "yádʒeswo deywóm wérunom". úpo rḗʃs deywóm wérunom sesole nú deywóm yadʒeto. "tʃlutʰí moy, pter werune!" deywós wérunos diwés km̥tá gāt. "kíd wēlsi?" "sū́num wēlmi." "tód estu", wéwked lewkós deywós wérunos. nu rétʃs pótnī sū́num dʒedʒone/dʒedʒōne.


I feel like making a realistic and detailed set of sound changes is going to be difficult with this format. For example, we just have "laryngeals disappear, coloring and lengthening vowels". But what happens to "syllabic" laryngeals? Do they only color *e, and only lengthen preceding sonorants? Do they lengthen syllabic consonants? And then vanish unconditionally?

Perhaps we could do something like this: Once we have an outline for all of the sound laws, we (1) suggest contexts in which sound changes might occur and vote on those where we want changes to occur, and then (2) suggest what actually happens in the chosen contexts and vote on which one will be applied. This would be rather complicated though.

The same thing, I guess, goes for morphology too since PIE was so absurdly complex. Idk, I feel like it's going to take some careful planning.
Last edited by vo1dwalk3r on 06 Feb 2018 06:21, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by shimobaatar »

Cavaliers327 wrote: 06 Feb 2018 00:14 Thanks for the sound correspondences. However, all the labiovelars would merge with the velars because this is a satem branch.
Oh, right, of course. Edited.
vo1dwalk3r wrote: 06 Feb 2018 00:19 I feel like making a realistic and detailed set of sound changes is going to be difficult with this format. For example, we just have "laryngeals disappear, coloring and lengthening vowels". But what happens to "syllabic" laryngeals? Do they only color *e, and only lengthen preceding sonorants? Do they lengthen syllabic consonants? And then vanish unconditionally?

Perhaps we could do something like this: Once we have an outline for all of the sound laws, we (1) suggest contexts in which sound changes might occur and vote on those where we want changes to occur, and then (2) suggest what actually happens in the chosen contexts and vote on which one will be applied. This would be rather complicated though.

The same thing, I guess, goes for morphology too since PIE was so absurdly complex. Idk, I feel like it's going to take some careful planning.
Yeah, this won't be easy. The simplest solution would be to just give one person the responsibility of detailing stuff like this, but that kind of strays from the nature of a "collablang".
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Cavaliers327 »

Point of clarification, the Aorist and Optative refer to a grammatical tense and mood in the language. The moods becoming 'archaic' refers to how most people in common speech don't use that tense and mood anymore.

Also , we can go off vo1dwalk3r' 's assumptions about the phonology and sound changes concerning the laryngeals
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by shimobaatar »

Cavaliers327 wrote: 06 Feb 2018 00:38 Point of clarification, the Aorist and Optative refer to a grammatical tense and mood in the language. The moods becoming 'archaic' refers to how most people in common speech don't use that tense and mood anymore.
Yes, I know what all of those words mean. I should have been more direct about what's unclear to me. I don't know what you mean by "retain" and "lingers" in this context. What would the results of both of those options look like?
Cavaliers327 wrote: 06 Feb 2018 00:38 Also , we can go off vo1dwalk3r' 's assumptions about the phonology and sound changes concerning the laryngeals
Sounds good to me. It was their suggestion that won the vote after all.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by vo1dwalk3r »

Hmm, I'm not sure how I feel about going with my sound change assumptions. They're pretty boring, but if you guys are fine with sticking with them, so am I.
shimobaatar wrote: 06 Feb 2018 00:47Yes, I know what all of those words mean. I should have been more direct about what's unclear to me. I don't know what you mean by "retain" and "lingers" in this context. What would the results of both of those options look like?
I too would like clarification on this.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Cavaliers327 »

Retains/Linger would mean to preserve them while not doing so would get rid of them. I was trying to say that they linger on in the sense that the language at this moment in time would preserve them. I should have been clearer
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Vlürch »

11. nevermind
12. B
13. vo1dwalk3r's suggestion
14. A
15. A

X1:
-Sumerian loanwords for agriculture, geography, etc. (and they undergo the same sound changes since borrowing as native vocabulary)
These are from Wiktionary and this site, so if they're incorrect, don't blame me.
The latter terms after > are possible shift in meaning.
agar - field, meadow > untouched grassland (meaning is narrowed)
eden - plain, steppe, open country > steppe; land where one is free (conflated with the Eden of Abrahamic religions)
alum - a type of sheep > sheep (meaning is widened)
maš - goat; sacrificial animal > sacrificial animal (meaning is narrowed)
durah - wild goat, mountain goat > goat (meaning is widened)
ab - cow > cow (no change in meaning)
etc.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by shimobaatar »

Cavaliers327 wrote: 06 Feb 2018 01:25 Retains/Linger would mean to preserve them while not doing so would get rid of them. I was trying to say that they linger on in the sense that the language at this moment in time would preserve them. I should have been clearer
Wait, so both options mean the same thing?
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Cavaliers327 »

Yep, I made an error in typing, will fix [:D]
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by shimobaatar »

Cavaliers327 wrote: 06 Feb 2018 04:00 Yep, I made an error in typing, will fix [:D]
Ah, got it! Thanks for the clarification!
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by idov »

11. a
12. a
13. c (m̩ > um, otherwise C̩ > aC)
14. c
15. a

I have nothing to add to the X's. It's wonderful to see our sound changes applied and tested.

I think we should try to interpret our changes to PIE quite literally as long as it makes sense. Most of us are knowledgable enough about PIE to word our changes to get the exact results we want. If someone writes "vowels" rather than "syllabic phonemes", they intended that. At least I would like to think that.So far it all seems dandy.
The accusative of <emo> is <eminem>. :lat:
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Frislander »

11. a
12. b
13. m̩C, l̩C > uC, n̩C > iC, r̩C > aC
14. a
15. a

X borrow terms for metallurgy and ceramics from Hurrian, and maybe some horse-related words as well. Also have their paganism be influenced by Hurrian religion as per the Hittites.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Cavaliers327 »

11. a
12. b
13. c - vo1dwalk3r's suggestion
14. c
15. b
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Parlox »

11. a
12. a
13. b
14. c
15. b
:con: Gândölansch (Gondolan)Feongkrwe (Feongrkean)Tamhanddön (Tamanthon)Θανηλοξαμαψⱶ (Thanelotic)Yônjcerth (Yaponese)Ba̧supan (Basupan)Mùthoķán (Mothaucian) :con:
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Hominid »

11. b
12. a
13. vo1dwalk3r's suggestion
14. b
15. a

Is this going to be a language isolate that exists in roughly our timeline's version of the Caucasus, or are we constructing a completely unrecognizable alternate history?
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Cavaliers327 »

Notice : Voting for questions 11-15 ends at 12:30 AM Friday GMT
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by shimobaatar »

Hominid wrote: 07 Feb 2018 02:44 Is this going to be a language isolate that exists in roughly our timeline's version of the Caucasus, or are we constructing a completely unrecognizable alternate history?
I assume we'll be voting on this at some point. It won't be an isolate, though, since it'll be descended from PIE, unless there's something I'm missing?
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by Hominid »

shimobaatar wrote: 08 Feb 2018 01:18
Hominid wrote: 07 Feb 2018 02:44 Is this going to be a language isolate that exists in roughly our timeline's version of the Caucasus, or are we constructing a completely unrecognizable alternate history?
I assume we'll be voting on this at some point. It won't be an isolate, though, since it'll be descended from PIE, unless there's something I'm missing?
Sorry, I meant a single-language branch with relatively few speakers, like Albanian.
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Re: New Weekly Indo European Collablang

Post by shimobaatar »

Hominid wrote: 08 Feb 2018 01:35
shimobaatar wrote: 08 Feb 2018 01:18
Hominid wrote: 07 Feb 2018 02:44 Is this going to be a language isolate that exists in roughly our timeline's version of the Caucasus, or are we constructing a completely unrecognizable alternate history?
I assume we'll be voting on this at some point. It won't be an isolate, though, since it'll be descended from PIE, unless there's something I'm missing?
Sorry, I meant a single-language branch with relatively few speakers, like Albanian.
Oh, duh, I should have been able to guess that.
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