I want to have made one. Maybe I want to make one, but I definitely want to have made one.Click wrote:The grammar is beautiful, but not everyone wants to make such a book.
Siųa
- eldin raigmore
- korean
- Posts: 6352
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
- Location: SouthEast Michigan
Re: Siųa
My minicity is http://gonabebig1day.myminicity.com/xml
Re: Siųa
Me too. But I'd exploit medieval techniques with illustrations, initials and snort.eldin raigmore wrote:I want to have made one. Maybe I want to make one, but I definitely want to have made one.
Great work, great dedication, great!
Languages of Rodentèrra: Buonavallese, Saselvan Argemontese; Wīlandisċ Taulkeisch; More on the road.
Conlang embryo of TELES: Proto-Avesto-Umbric ~> Proto-Umbric
New blog: http://argentiusbonavalensis.tumblr.com
Conlang embryo of TELES: Proto-Avesto-Umbric ~> Proto-Umbric
New blog: http://argentiusbonavalensis.tumblr.com
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- greek
- Posts: 661
- Joined: 05 Nov 2012 03:59
Re: Siųa
Now that's a lovely looking book!
- CrazyEttin
- sinic
- Posts: 435
- Joined: 28 Feb 2011 19:43
Re: Siųa
Monoba, that's simply awesome.
...And, once again, makes me feel like a failure for my conlang descriptions being so short. :D
...And, once again, makes me feel like a failure for my conlang descriptions being so short. :D
- DesEsseintes
- mongolian
- Posts: 4331
- Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16
Re: Siųa
I finally downloaded the pdf, and this is awesome!
I'm especially in love with the double agentivity concept; such an awesome way to deal with causatives! I so wish I had thought of that!
Now I will die unhappy if I don't manage to better this in my lifetime (as I surely won't be able to).
Congratulations on your amazing work, MONOBA!
I'm especially in love with the double agentivity concept; such an awesome way to deal with causatives! I so wish I had thought of that!
Now I will die unhappy if I don't manage to better this in my lifetime (as I surely won't be able to).
Congratulations on your amazing work, MONOBA!
- eldin raigmore
- korean
- Posts: 6352
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
- Location: SouthEast Michigan
Re: Siųa
@MONOBA:
Why did you say "consonants" twice, "… the consonants word-initial consonants …"?
How can a word-initial consonant be preceded by a suffix or suffixes?
Do you mean just "usually"?
Or do you mean just "always"?
Or have you not yet made up your mind?
I'm betting they aren't both called rule 1, like George Foreman's sons are all named George Forman.
(He justifies it thus: "You try getting hit on the head by Muhammad Ali and see how many names you can remember.")
Btw why does the shape of the verb-stem influence slots 3 and 4 unless there is nothing in slot 1 or slot 2?
I'd think if there was anything in slot 2, the shape of slot 2's occupant would be what influences slots 3 and 4, rather than the shape of the verb stem or slot 1;
and, if there's nothing in slot 2 but something in slot 1, the shape of slot 1's occupant would be what influences slots 3 and 4, rather than the shape of the verb stem.
Why is that not the case?
("Because I felt like doing it that way" is an acceptable response.)
What is meant by that?Descriptive Grammar of Siwa, page 14, section 9.4 Agentivity wrote:Note that in certain dialects, especially in the east, the consonants word-initial consonants [ph th kh/ch] <p t k> may be found as slight ejectives if they are preceded by suffixes.
Why did you say "consonants" twice, "… the consonants word-initial consonants …"?
How can a word-initial consonant be preceded by a suffix or suffixes?
Pretty sure you meant "behalf".Descriptive Grammar of Siwa, page 233, section 3.2 Stress wrote:For example, while the verb ‘to like’ might actually involve a conscious decision on the agent’s half, ...
What does "usually always" mean?Descriptive Grammar of Siwa, page 214, section 9.2.1.5 Verb Stem wrote:Certain verb stems contain only consonants and are called consonantal roots. these verbs are usually always preceded by a preverbal vowel.
Do you mean just "usually"?
Or do you mean just "always"?
Or have you not yet made up your mind?
I'm betting order 4-3 is called rule 2. (This seems to be confirmed on page 216.)Descriptive Grammar of Siwa, page 215, section 9.2.1.8 Slot 3 and 4 wrote:There are two rules that determine the order of slots 3 and 4. The order 3-4 is called rule 1, while the order 4-3 is called rule 1.
I'm betting they aren't both called rule 1, like George Foreman's sons are all named George Forman.
(He justifies it thus: "You try getting hit on the head by Muhammad Ali and see how many names you can remember.")
Btw why does the shape of the verb-stem influence slots 3 and 4 unless there is nothing in slot 1 or slot 2?
I'd think if there was anything in slot 2, the shape of slot 2's occupant would be what influences slots 3 and 4, rather than the shape of the verb stem or slot 1;
and, if there's nothing in slot 2 but something in slot 1, the shape of slot 1's occupant would be what influences slots 3 and 4, rather than the shape of the verb stem.
Why is that not the case?
("Because I felt like doing it that way" is an acceptable response.)
My minicity is http://gonabebig1day.myminicity.com/xml
Re: Siųa
I am not sure if seeing this inspires me or makes me give up conlanging right away (it's simply so huge).
May i ask, for how long have you been working on Siųa?
And can i borrow the vowel polarity thing? My vowels are asking for something interesting to happen with them.
May i ask, for how long have you been working on Siųa?
And can i borrow the vowel polarity thing? My vowels are asking for something interesting to happen with them.
Re: Siųa
@loglorn, it should definitively inspire you! It's taken me a lot of time and self-control to get this far, neither of which is impossible to attain!
I've been working on Siwa for a long time, and it's hard to say exactly how long. I'd say upwards of 6 years now? And yes, I made up a lot of not-so-linguistically-acceptable terms writing the grammar, so if any of it makes sense, feel free to use it!
@eld raigmore:
You've found some of the many mistakes in the book, thank you. I'll try to fix them. I've been staring at this document for years now so it's become quite difficult to actually see the mistakes.
The reason for the slots 1 and 2 needing to be empty is that only the specific shape of 3 and 4 can coalesce with the stem in that particular manner (-l- and -s- interact very richly with the consonants around them, more so than most other consonants).
The slot 1 houses the absolutive descriptives, which have no influence at all on the shape of the root they're attached to. Slot 2 houses the complementizer, which also has no influence on the shape of the stem. Both 1 and 2 are whole syllables, while 3 and 4 prefer to be a single consonant rather than a whole syllable.
That's how I see it anyways. The reverse order is used when the infix cannot be found as a single consonant.
@DesEsseintes, Thank you! That's specific enough of a compliment to be a very nice one :).
I've been working on Siwa for a long time, and it's hard to say exactly how long. I'd say upwards of 6 years now? And yes, I made up a lot of not-so-linguistically-acceptable terms writing the grammar, so if any of it makes sense, feel free to use it!
@eld raigmore:
You've found some of the many mistakes in the book, thank you. I'll try to fix them. I've been staring at this document for years now so it's become quite difficult to actually see the mistakes.
Here it should be stem-initial or root-initial. And it should be affixes. ....What is meant by that?
Why did you say "consonants" twice, "… the consonants word-initial consonants …"?
How can a word-initial consonant be preceded by a suffix or suffixes?
Yep, that's Icelandic syntax seeping into my English!Pretty sure you meant "behalf".
This is chemistry seeping into my English! 'Weigh roughly precisely 3.578 mg of bla'. I THINK that I was trying to say that the usual thing for these verbs is to always have a preverbal vowel, but it's not always the case, but when it is, it always is.What does "usually always" mean?
Do you mean just "usually"?
Or do you mean just "always"?
Or have you not yet made up your mind?
Entirely possible that they be reversed somewhere in the text because I actually realized at some point that I had been using the order completely inconstantly – I might have forgotten to correct some of these inconsistencies.I'm betting order 4-3 is called rule 2. (This seems to be confirmed on page 216.)
I'm betting they aren't both called rule 1, like George Foreman's sons are all named George Forman.
(He justifies it thus: "You try getting hit on the head by Muhammad Ali and see how many names you can remember.")
Btw why does the shape of the verb-stem influence slots 3 and 4 unless there is nothing in slot 1 or slot 2?
I'd think if there was anything in slot 2, the shape of slot 2's occupant would be what influences slots 3 and 4, rather than the shape of the verb stem or slot 1;
and, if there's nothing in slot 2 but something in slot 1, the shape of slot 1's occupant would be what influences slots 3 and 4, rather than the shape of the verb stem.
Why is that not the case?
("Because I felt like doing it that way" is an acceptable response.)
The reason for the slots 1 and 2 needing to be empty is that only the specific shape of 3 and 4 can coalesce with the stem in that particular manner (-l- and -s- interact very richly with the consonants around them, more so than most other consonants).
The slot 1 houses the absolutive descriptives, which have no influence at all on the shape of the root they're attached to. Slot 2 houses the complementizer, which also has no influence on the shape of the stem. Both 1 and 2 are whole syllables, while 3 and 4 prefer to be a single consonant rather than a whole syllable.
That's how I see it anyways. The reverse order is used when the infix cannot be found as a single consonant.
@DesEsseintes, Thank you! That's specific enough of a compliment to be a very nice one :).
Re: Siųa
Here is a short text I read out loud about Siwa clothing.
Tulmu
Euka tulmuma-hi damġa te tůrůma okuhka muṡid moskko-uli ki Siuragi. Ketsġo on henna aiska tulmuma aihka gala te tonkamo seita ỉskigi, da ka kůira tunna toḥḥanta Siustagi ismet te almi, katibogįi daikota saṡkaba. Seppen maldota puna nelesita, onome umalatsti tamaraįõ holotta kevta dagįen, unokki komo “ġalpot” en įasukka-ůt, naųiniųia katta eukanteta arenta sahra ġarenta damu, tůrů, ůpi te pỷbme taga. Atai dela rymyma te herhari ki ỉskigi. Kobai ko kokkuiba rymẻuligįen nelpieįa, udeli ra heįetįai lunįuma otġita-įasmiraka. Dela boimmo unokkųi bevvut ki ỉskigi te somigi, onogįika keṡkediksa nůųetsta te elvotsta sahra elepsaṡka sari. Da elepri, ela te õska tsġůldi bevvutstia-nen naųinõren lolonnin ta elvot. Tįiba kõkõ bevvutstia-nen etta ġůme, atarotima dailra, tįiba katta įảlppuraimaka, oveibmunonte ỉski. Unaųinis on onike kimi vauhkika egi įaingokika enehmõ en elvotsta, dela bẻ en bevvutsta, oaki nỉntsika-ḥa denarika egi sikkeska.
Clothing
Siwa make their clothes from the skins and furs of various mammals. Women generally see about sewing clothes with needles and sinew. Leather (įasuma~įasma) and tanning (almi) are an important part of the Siwa skills, and the language reflects this. The skin of the deer (puna) is especially valued for summer clothes (nellen), for which it is tanned especially thin, a leather called ġalpot, while thick leathers (damu) and furs (tůrů) or bear skin (ůpi), seal skin (pỷbme) and caribou skin (sigme) are used for winter clothes (arren~ġarren). Women mostly wear a dress (rybmy) and a hat (herha). In the summer, a lighter dress called nelppi is used, while in the winter, a lunįu made from thicker leather is used. Women and men wear a belt called bevvut, which is used to carry tools and elvot or flower-code in their bevvut. Elvot is a code that involves flowers, plants and sometimes animal skulls that are attached to the bevvut to signify certain things. For example, two pine cones in a bevvut shows that a woman is pregnant (she is a dailha). A beaver head means a woman is married to a hunter, and a hare’s tail indicates that the woman is not married. While elvot is used to state something about the bearer’s life or status, the bevvut itself usually shows from what village or band one is.
Tulmu
Euka tulmuma-hi damġa te tůrůma okuhka muṡid moskko-uli ki Siuragi. Ketsġo on henna aiska tulmuma aihka gala te tonkamo seita ỉskigi, da ka kůira tunna toḥḥanta Siustagi ismet te almi, katibogįi daikota saṡkaba. Seppen maldota puna nelesita, onome umalatsti tamaraįõ holotta kevta dagįen, unokki komo “ġalpot” en įasukka-ůt, naųiniųia katta eukanteta arenta sahra ġarenta damu, tůrů, ůpi te pỷbme taga. Atai dela rymyma te herhari ki ỉskigi. Kobai ko kokkuiba rymẻuligįen nelpieįa, udeli ra heįetįai lunįuma otġita-įasmiraka. Dela boimmo unokkųi bevvut ki ỉskigi te somigi, onogįika keṡkediksa nůųetsta te elvotsta sahra elepsaṡka sari. Da elepri, ela te õska tsġůldi bevvutstia-nen naųinõren lolonnin ta elvot. Tįiba kõkõ bevvutstia-nen etta ġůme, atarotima dailra, tįiba katta įảlppuraimaka, oveibmunonte ỉski. Unaųinis on onike kimi vauhkika egi įaingokika enehmõ en elvotsta, dela bẻ en bevvutsta, oaki nỉntsika-ḥa denarika egi sikkeska.
Clothing
Siwa make their clothes from the skins and furs of various mammals. Women generally see about sewing clothes with needles and sinew. Leather (įasuma~įasma) and tanning (almi) are an important part of the Siwa skills, and the language reflects this. The skin of the deer (puna) is especially valued for summer clothes (nellen), for which it is tanned especially thin, a leather called ġalpot, while thick leathers (damu) and furs (tůrů) or bear skin (ůpi), seal skin (pỷbme) and caribou skin (sigme) are used for winter clothes (arren~ġarren). Women mostly wear a dress (rybmy) and a hat (herha). In the summer, a lighter dress called nelppi is used, while in the winter, a lunįu made from thicker leather is used. Women and men wear a belt called bevvut, which is used to carry tools and elvot or flower-code in their bevvut. Elvot is a code that involves flowers, plants and sometimes animal skulls that are attached to the bevvut to signify certain things. For example, two pine cones in a bevvut shows that a woman is pregnant (she is a dailha). A beaver head means a woman is married to a hunter, and a hare’s tail indicates that the woman is not married. While elvot is used to state something about the bearer’s life or status, the bevvut itself usually shows from what village or band one is.
- eldin raigmore
- korean
- Posts: 6352
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
- Location: SouthEast Michigan
Re: Siųa
I am impressed. I have nothing more detailed to say at the moment.
My minicity is http://gonabebig1day.myminicity.com/xml
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- rupestrian
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 14 Jul 2015 00:07
Re: Siųa
I just looked through the grammar. 724 pages? Are you a professor in linguistics?!
L1 C1- B1+ A2+ A1 Want to learn: :zho:
Developing: Koios
Dropped: Skadal
Developing: Koios
Dropped: Skadal