DesEsseintes wrote: ↑26 Feb 2018 04:16
Thank you! Yes, the profusion of laterals is meant to be the most salient feature of the phonology. You are also right that I’m definitely stretching it a bit when it comes to naturalism.
Some languages are crazier, doesn't ǃXóõ have over 150 consonants?
Also, i love the aesthetics of the languages you make. I'm a sucker for any north-american inspired conlang.
pbastronaut wrote: ↑22 Feb 2018 12:50
Thanks for taking a look. It's really helpful to get an outside opinion on this one. As for /k͡xʰ/, I was mostly thinking of that glottal realisation because I seem to pronounce it that way, but now I think about it, I guess it's because my dialect of English doesn't really, you know, do an intervocalic /h/. [k͡xəh] really does make more sense.
I'm going for (C)(J)V(C), where J is any glide. Onsets can be any any consonant but /ŋ/, and codas can be any nasal or stop. I'm still working out which glide-vowel combinations are allowable, but it's particularly limiting for back vowels.
No problem at all! I look forward to seeing where this will go.
Epiglottals! (Or are they pharyngeals? I can’t say I know the difference.) I speak rudimentary Arabic so for now I’ve just added the epiglottals from Arabic along with labialised variants. Now the interesting thing here is that I can have the voiced epiglottal fricatives function as the voiced counterparts to the uvular lateral fricatives since there are no uvular lateral approximants. I think this is neat.
I typically see /ħ ʕ/ called "pharyngeals".
And I agree. That is neat.
DesEsseintes wrote: ↑25 Feb 2018 03:18
Des Pondérables:
I haven’t included /h/ and I don’t think I will.
I like the fact that the retroflex affricates have velar stop components, but I wonder of /q͡ʂ/ might not be nicer? Or even distinguish all of /t͡s k͡s̠ q͡ʂ/?
I am tempted to expand the epiglottals a bit, by adding epiglottal stops perhaps? I’m not sure though as I’m not very confident producing such sounds.
I don't see why you would need to, especially now that the aspirated consonants are gone.
I'd personally go for distinguishing all three.
If it's important to you to be able to pronounce the language, then I'd say probably don't add the epiglottal stop.
Porphyrogenitos wrote: ↑27 Feb 2018 07:10
A vowel harmony idea I just came up with. Plausible? Not sure. It seems intuitive.
harmony class I: /i ə/
harmony class II: /ɨ o/
neutral: /a/
Start off with /a e i o u/ and harmony between /e i/ and /o u/, then e u → ə ɨ.
And yes, it feels good.
Isn't it just a vertical 3-vowel system with front-back harmony? I'd posit /a ə i/ and then harmonized backing to [o ɨ]. In any case, looks and feels reasonable.
Word-initially, vowels have allophones depending on the vowel in the following syllable:
Back vowel: /a i u/ [ɑ e u], /aː iː uː/ [ɑː iː uː]
Front vowel: /a i u/ [æ i o], /aː iː uː/ [æː iː yː]
Syllables are (C)V(N).
C = any consonant
V = any vowel
N = any nasal
Word-final /n/ has the allophones [n ŋ ɲ] after central, back and front vowels respectively.
Short vowels that are not diphthongs have voiceless allophones between two voiceless consonants.
There is a highly morphologised process of vowel reduction, whereby /e/ > /i/ and /a/ > /ə/ in unstressed syllables.
Syllable structure is CV(ʔ, m, ɾ). The nasal /m/ assimilates to the POA of a following oral consonant, and furthermore the cluster /mɾ/ undergoes double assimilation to [nn]. Additionally the VCV sequences /aβə/, /əβa/ > [oː] and /əβə/ > [uː] respectively, while the intervocalic sequences with /ɣ/ are resolved as follows:
a ə e i
a - aː - aɣi
ə aː əː əɣe əɣi
e - ejə - eː
i ija ijə eː iː
Stress is mobile and can appear in different places in the word depending on the particular conjugation, with corresponding vowel reduction (see above).
/p~ɸ~β~m~b t~s~l~n~d~ɾ k~x~ɣ~ŋ~g ʔ~h/ <p t c h>
/i~e~j u~o~w a/ <e u a>
I've ALWAYS wanted to go minimalist somehow and showcased Iachor, a language that was inspired by an attempt to rip-off the Jetsons' for inspiration ("Eep Opp Ork Ah Ah"). Anyway, I ran into a dead-end for the last attempt and picked it up 2 days ago and I adore what I have. There is a shit-ton of allophony and it ALL works. The best part is, in the new formula, my original idea for the phrase "I love you" still works.
Many conlangers who try to include clicks in their conlangs end up including a series of plain/tenuis click that looks like this:
/ʘ ǀ ǂ ǃ ǁ/
There's nothing inherently wrong with this, but in terms of naturalism, every language that features clicks makes use (sometimes exceedingly generous use) of the contrasts available in the velar coarticulation inherent to clicks. I've occasionally been interested in using clicks, and although I am at least in principle capable of articulating a fair number of click coarticulations, it's nonetheless rather difficult for me, and I'd prefer to include a smaller click inventory. But for the sake of naturalism, I'd at least try to include some coarticulation distinctions.
Anyways, all of that is a preface to this tiny click inventory I might use sometime. (And yes, the bilabial click is actually the rarest of the clicks, but I like it and it's easy to articulate.)
/k͡ʘ k͡ǃ/
/ŋ͡ʘ ŋ͡ǃ/
(I thought it would be weird to only have one non-bilabial click PoA, but apparently Sesotho and a couple other Bantu languages have just one click PoA that varies between alveolar, dental, and lateral, so I guess it's not that strange.)
/p t k ʔ/
/b d/
/t͡s’ t͡ɬ’ q͡χ’/
/s ɬ h/
/m n/
/w j/
/i iː u uː/
/e eː ə ɤː o oː/
/aː/
/ie uo/
/ea oa/
The only vowel which occurs in unstressed syllables is /ə/ and this is also the only vowel which may be found unstressed. Syllable structure is CV(F), where F can only be one of /ɬ h n/, of which /h/ is restricted to this position.
Language 2
/t k kʷ ʔ/
/t͡s/
/f s x xʷ h/
/m n/
/w ɾ j/
/i iː u uː/
/a aː/
The length distinction between vowels only occurs in the stressed syllable. Syllable structure is (C)V(F), where F is one of /n ɾ/, or alternatively any consonant may occur geminated intervocalically.
Cognate sets
The length distinction between vowels only occurs in the stressed syllable. Syllable structure is (C)V(F), where F is one of /h n ɾ/, or alternatively any consonant may occur geminated intervocalically.
Frislander wrote: ↑04 Mar 2018 17:58
Here's two sister languages.
Language 1
/p t k ʔ/
/b d/
/t͡s’ t͡ɬ’ q͡χ’/
/s ɬ h/
/m n/
/w j/
/i iː u uː/
/e eː ə ɤː o oː/
/aː/
/ie uo/
/ea oa/
The only vowel which occurs in unstressed syllables is /ə/ and this is also the only vowel which may be found unstressed. Syllable structure is CV(F), where F can only be one of /ɬ h n/, of which /h/ is restricted to this position.
Language 2
/t k kʷ ʔ/
/t͡s/
/f s x xʷ h/
/m n/
/w ɾ j/
/i iː u uː/
/a aː/
The length distinction between vowels only occurs in the stressed syllable. Syllable structure is (C)V(F), where F is one of /h n ɾ/, or alternatively any consonant may occur geminated intervocalically.
Cognate sets
mi mʷy mɨ mʷu me mʷø mə mʷo mæ mʷɒ
ni nʷy nɨ nʷu ne nʷø nə nʷo næ nʷɒ
pi pʷy pɨ pʷu pe pʷø pə pʷo pæ pʷɒ
ti tʷy tɨ tʷu te tʷø tə tʷo tæ tʷɒ
ki kʷy kɨ kʷu ke kʷø kə kʷo kæ kʷɒ
βʷy βʷu βʷø βʷo βʷɒ
si sʷy sɨ sʷu se sʷø sə sʷo sæ sʷɒ
hi hɨ he hə hæ
ɾi ɾʷy ɾɨ ɾʷu ɾe ɾʷø ɾə ɾʷo ɾæ ɾʷɒ
ji jɨ je jə jæ
Edit: Maybe with nasalization, or a permissible final /N/, or tone or pitch-accent. Yes, rather Japonic, I know. There may or may not be some kind of harmony process.
Last edited by Porphyrogenitos on 10 Mar 2018 06:02, edited 2 times in total.
It's...really weird, but I could scrounge up at least tenuous precedents for all of its gaps/outliers from various languages around the world. It actually seems a bit Iroquoian.
Porphyrogenitos wrote: ↑10 Mar 2018 06:01
It's...really weird, but I could scrounge up at least tenuous precedents for all of its gaps/outliers from various languages around the world. It actually seems a bit Iroquoian.
I agree re the Iroquoian feel. Tuscarora with a Cheyenne-inspired v instead of w. I could definitely get behind this.
It is definitely a workable phonology. Missing a /p/ is common as muck (almost a conlanging cliché these days), the vowels are spread out nicely, and it’s not ridiculously small. Go for it! And show us what you come up with.
mi mʷy mɨ mʷu me mʷø mə mʷo mæ mʷɒ
ni nʷy nɨ nʷu ne nʷø nə nʷo næ nʷɒ
pi pʷy pɨ pʷu pe pʷø pə pʷo pæ pʷɒ
ti tʷy tɨ tʷu te tʷø tə tʷo tæ tʷɒ
ki kʷy kɨ kʷu ke kʷø kə kʷo kæ kʷɒ
βʷy βʷu βʷø βʷo βʷɒ
si sʷy sɨ sʷu se sʷø sə sʷo sæ sʷɒ
hi hɨ he hə hæ
ɾi ɾʷy ɾɨ ɾʷu ɾe ɾʷø ɾə ɾʷo ɾæ ɾʷɒ
ji jɨ je jə jæ
Edit: Maybe with nasalization, or a permissible final /N/, or tone or pitch-accent. Yes, rather Japonic, I know. There may or may not be some kind of harmony process.
I find this wonderful. PLEASE make this into something.