Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread [2011–2018]

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Linguifex wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote: and remain unaccounted for.
*θ *ł < **t͡s t͡ɬ < **t͡s’ **t͡ɬ’
I didn't write it out very clearly in my original post, but Proto-Híí *t͡s *t͡ɬ were indeed derived from Proto-Plains **t͡s’ **t͡ɬ' but they cannot go on to lenite to *θ *ł because then I'm left without the affricates. Besides, the phonemes unaccounted for are actually *ŋ *θ and not *ł *θ.

Thanks for the suggestion though. [:)]

Also, thanks for reminding me that I can use multiple asterisks to indicate different stages of protolanguages.
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Omzinesý
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Omzinesý »

Some gaps may occur later - labio-uvular implosive or such.

p t k͡p k q͡p q <p t kp k qp q>
ɓ ɗ ɠ͡ɓ ɠ ɢ͡ɓ ɢ <bb dd gb g xb x>
β ð w ɣ ʁ͡β ʁ <b d bd g bx x>
m n ŋ͡m ŋ ɴ͡m ɴ <m n mg ng mx gx>
l r <l r>
s ʃ <s š>

Implosives and voiced fricatives merge word-initially.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Híí 7.0

Today I was reading about Onondaga, because I hadn't given it any love in a while, and found myself charmed by the profusion of <d g> in such a small inventory. This reminded me of Micamo's Project Amethyst, which I then looked up. After that I did something stupid. I sketched a variant of Híí with no labials (except /m/), no θ, and a voicing distinction in stops. The result is this:

/m n/ m n
/t t͡s t͡ɬ t͡ʃ k ʔ/ t ts tł ch k ’
/d (d͡z d͡ɮ d͡ʒ) g/ d dz dl dzh g
/s ɬ h/ s ł h
/z~ɾ l~w)/ z r l w

/e i o/ e ı o

Some word forms:

déínnırıwȯȯoht
géíwgıwıtł
eızdéweıwınıngeh
Ó’oogwíłtse
éíłłgıweıwıłtse
óhłgoweıwıłtse
éweıgéłłken

I think these are quite pretty. Having the voiced stops also opens up all kinds of possibilities with h-elision and tone and whatnot. I think this has a lot of potential.

One might wonder then why I think that was a stupid thing to do. The problem is that I really like this. However, I also really like the 'official' version, and getting rid of b f þ feels unfaithful to my original conception. And no, combining the two doesn't work. I tried.

So I'm really quite unsure what to do. Do I develop this into a side dialect, or do I just strike at the core of my beloved Híí and say f*** it, this is more elegant?
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by opipik »

DesEsseintes wrote:Do I develop this into a side dialect,
I'd do this.
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Man in Space
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Man in Space »

DesEsseintes wrote:Híí 7.0

Today I was reading about Onondaga, because I hadn't given it any love in a while, and found myself charmed by the profusion of <d g> in such a small inventory. This reminded me of Micamo's Project Amethyst, which I then looked up. After that I did something stupid. I sketched a variant of Híí with no labials (except /m/), no θ, and a voicing distinction in stops. The result is this:

/m n/ m n
/t t͡s t͡ɬ t͡ʃ k ʔ/ t ts tł ch k ’
/d (d͡z d͡ɮ d͡ʒ) g/ d dz dl dzh g
/s ɬ h/ s ł h
/z~ɾ l~w)/ z r l w

/e i o/ e ı o
Kind of reminds me of Classical Ngade n Tim Ar:

/m n ŋ/ m n ng
/t~d k~g/ t~d k~g
/θ~ð s~z x~ɣ h/ 3 s~z kh~gh h
/l ɹ ʕ/ l r 5

/ù ú ɯ̀ ɯ́ ò ó ɤ̀ ɤ́ à á è é ø̀ ǿ ì í ỳ ý/ u ú ï î o ó ë ê a á e é ö ô i í ü û

Generally, (C)V(C), with a few instances of VCC due to morphology.

Obstruents voice when intervocalic or when between a resonant and a vowel (or vice versa). In the rare case of three-consonant clusters, voicing rules apply to the obstruent cluster as a unit (e.g., ngatsa 'dumbbell, weight (sg.)' > angdza 'dumbbells, weights (pl.)', but ko3kó 'swale (sg.)' > ok3kó 'swales (pl.)').

A flying dot · is used to break up ambiguous clusters:

anga /àŋà/ vs. an·ga /àngà/
atkha /àtxà/ vs. atk·ha /àtkhà/

For good measure, here's Proto-Tim Ar-O:

*p *b *t *d *k *g *q *ɢ *ʔ
*m *n *ŋ (*ɴ?)
*s *z *ʃ *ʒ *h
*ɬ *ɮ
*ɹ *l
*w [*u] *j [*i] *ʁ [*a]

*o *e


Any resonant or vowel could serve as the syllable nucleus; those with expressly vocalic allophones are indicated.

And while we're at it, here's Proto-O:

*N m~n
*p *t *k p t k
*h h
*j *w *ʁ j w r

*e e

Generally, you could have (C)(R){e/Ø}(C).

The syllabification rules are a mess. I'm not even sure what they are. I have a general understanding but A) I'm not sure if it'd be completely accurate if I wrote it out and B) I'm not sure how consistent I was. To a first approximation, any resonant or *e could serve as the syllable nucleus, but *e basically held the syllable structure at gunpoint and said "you can't have three segments in the onset", which is a problem because the *e-infix likes to get used for nominalizing just about everything. *h also messes with the syllable to the point that I've given thought to completely redoing half my lexicon because right now it does weird stuff with vocalizing in the onset if there's another consonant after it.

As a rough guide…
Linguifex wrote:- p t k > pf ts kx / _j
- |N| h j w ʁ > |N̩| a i u a / {C,#}_#
- p t k > β z ɣ / V_V (V in this case can be |N̩|)
- p t k > f s x / _# (I'm thinking about not doing this, however)
- |N| assimilates to the POA of a nearby consonant unless it's intervocalic, between a vowel and a word boundary, or between two /h/s
Linguifex wrote:
Linguifex wrote:Syllabification rules

I'm trying to work out the tentative syllabification rules I have for *w *h *r *n *j. I think a close list would be:
  • *w *h *r *n *j retain non-syllabic status immediately adjacent to *e.
  • If *w *h *r *n *j appear in a cluster with one another, and this cluster is adjacent to *e, the second segment from the *e syllabifies.
  • If *w *h *r *n *j appear in a cluster with one another, and this cluster is not adjacent to *e:
    • If the sequence features *n as the second element, and there is no other coda consonant, syllabify the first.
    • If the sequence does not feature *n as the second element, or if there is a coda consonant following *n, syllabification occurs such that the largest legal onset is created, provided that the coda of the same syllable is a maximum of one consonant. A legal onset does not include *h as the second element, nor does it permit a sequence of *hr- in the same syllable.
  • If, after applying the above rules, *h would come second in onset position, it metathesizes with the segment immediately to its left and surfaces as [*h] immediately following *e, and [*a] otherwise. If the latter, syllabification for the previous syllable may need to be adjusted.
Hopefully I didn't mess that up. *h and *n throw wrenches into the system.

And this is O proper.

/m n/ m n
/p t k kʷ q qʷ/ p t k ḳ q q̇
/ɸ β~w s z x xʷ χ χʷ h/ f b s z g ġ x ẋ h
/ɾ/ r
/w j/ w y

/a aː ɛ ɛː ɛ~ə ɛː~əː e eː i iː ə əː ɨ ɨː o oː u uː/ a a: è è: ë ë: e e: i i: ơ ơ: ư ư: o o: u u:
/ae̯ ao̯ ei̯ ou̯/ áe áo éi óu

The /ɛ~ə ɛː~əː/ are the result of a vowel shift having had different outcomes in different dialects.

Final velar fricatives like to become a glide or vowel length after a final front vowel, especially if it's short.

I'm also thinking of adding an allophonic process wherein plosives become nasals before another nasal.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Tonal monosyllabic Híí 5.0 + 7.0 meets Nilotic

/p t t͡s t͡ɬ t͡ʃ k ʔ/
/b d d͡z d͡ɮ d͡ʒ g/
/ɸ θ s ɬ ʃ x h/
/z r l j w/

/a e i o u/ + length and any number of tones

Syllable structure: (F)C(i/u)V(ː)(C)

fpé’e ga znòò nú’u ní dzuōōł þtsí dààw chıò’ táy xtłāār
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Parlox »

Here is a small inventory that i plan to develop into a minimalistic code language based off of O Sumrol. It will be used as a code for illegal trading and for talking about secrets. The main speakers of this language will be underground traders and mercenaries.

/n/ n
/t k g/ t k g
/s z ɕ/ s z š

/ɨ ʉ a/ i u a
/ɨː ʉː aː uː/ î û â ơ̂
/ɨ̰ ʉ̰ a̰ ṵ/ ï ü ä ơ̈

syllable structure (C)(C2)(V)(C3)

Any consonant can appear in the C position
Only s z ɕ and t can appear in the C2 position
Any vowel can appear in the V position
Only s z ɕ n and t can appear in the C3 position

Some examples

Tînsün
Anzušu
Üstisi
Ïîäâstinï
ơ̈stakanï
:con: Gândölansch (Gondolan)Feongkrwe (Feongrkean)Tamhanddön (Tamanthon)Θανηλοξαμαψⱶ (Thanelotic)Yônjcerth (Yaponese)Ba̧supan (Basupan)Mùthoķán (Mothaucian) :con:
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Vlürch
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch »

This one has five different phonemic fart sounds.

/m n̼ n ŋ/ <m b n ng>
/p t ʈ k/ <p t d c>
/pʷ tʷ kʷ/ <pu tu cu>
/t͡ʃ d͡ʒ/ <ch dj>
/t͡ʃʷ d͡ʒʷ/ <chu dju>
/t͡ɹ̝̊ d͡ɹ̝ g͡ɣ/ <tr dr gr>
/s ʃ ʂ/ <s sh ss>
/ð j ʝ w χ h/ <z i j u x h>
/ðʷ χʷ/ <zu xu>
/r̼ r ʀ/ <pr r rx>
/r̼ʷ/ <pru>
/b͡ʙ t̼͡r̼̊ q͡ʀ̥/ <br ptr qr>
/t̼͡r̼̊ʷ/ <ptru>
/l ɮ/ <l zl>

/ə i u/ <a e o> - following retroflex and labialised consonants, /i/ is [e]
/(ɢʱ)ə̤ː (ɢʱ)ṳː/ <ah uh> - following a vowel, [ɢʱ] is added

/ʃ/, /t͡ʃ/, /d͡ʒ/, /t͡ʃʷ/ and /d͡ʒʷ/ become [ɕ], [t͡ɕ], [d͡ʑ], [t͡ɕʷ] and [d͡ʑʷ] before /i/
/h/ is voiced intervocalically

djaucua [d͡ʒəwkʷə]
aieuo [əjiwu]
zlotu [ɮutʷ]
ptruejec [t̼͡r̼̊ʷeʝik]
sheieza [ɕijiðə]
hachuxuang [hət͡ʃʷχʷəŋ]
olbepue [uln̼ipʷe]
ptrarxadju [t̼͡r̼̊əʀəd͡ʒʷ]
broproshtra [b͡ʙur̼uʃt͡ɹ̝̊ə]
cuouh [kʷuɢʱṳː]
shcamahzl [ʃkəmə̤ːɮ]
ssaahhau [ʂəɢʱə̤ːɦəw]
chedengc [t͡ɕiʈeŋk]
datassbruh [ʈətəʂb͡ʙṳː]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by shimobaatar »

Vlürch wrote: datassbruh [ʈətəʂb͡ʙṳː]
[+1]
jimydog000
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by jimydog000 »

Gleb gave me the vowels, and I was partly inspired by Andamanese languages, sorta kinda yeah nah.

/p, t, k/ *aspirated somewhat.
/b, d, g/
/m, n/
/f, s~ç~x/
/ʋ, l, ɰ/

/i, y, u, ʊˤ/
/ɛ, œ, ɔ, ɔˤ/
/a, aˤ/

Syllable structure:
(C)V

Sound changes:
n > ɾ / V_V
m > ∅ / _Vˤ ! NV_V
i, e, œ > ɨ, ɘ, ɞ / ɰ_
a > æ / iC[-velar]_
æ > ɛ / {#N_}
A signature.
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qwed117
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by qwed117 »

I made this for a protolang on the IRC channel:
/m m̊ n n̊ ŋ ŋ̊/ <m mh n nh ñ ñh>
/p t̪ t k b d̪ d g/ <p ṭ t k b ḍ d g>
/s ś h j w ɰ ɾ/ <s ś h j w ġ r>
/a ɛ e i u o ɤ/ <a e è i u o à>
ś is a shibilant of indeterminate articulation. It has many different reflexes, from /s/ to /h/.
The language is sesquisyllabic, meaning that words that are nonomonosyllabic must contain a minor syllable. Generally this is the first syllable of a word, but in some trisyllables, it might be the second syllable. The only reduced syllables are /a i/, coming from a and à, and e è and i respectively. o and u both reduce to a null syllable. To mark a full initial syllable, an acute is added, so <álinge> is different from <alinge>, which is different from <àlinge>. Reduced syllables can only be CCVC. Full syllables can be CCVVCC. These are only maximums. In reality, most syllables are shorter.
Little vocab list with no meanings
*ñhgèèn
*sààlgin
*stimh
*sibooñ
*śkàġg
*ikkup
*jaskiik
Spoiler:
My minicity is [http://zyphrazia.myminicity.com/xml]Zyphrazia and [http://novland.myminicity.com/xml]Novland.

Minicity has fallen :(
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Parlox »

The phonology of my new language Amhárål. I based this phoneme inventory on Archies phoneme inventory. Amhárål has 62 consonants and 28 vowels.

/m n/ m n
/t tˠ t̃ʰ tʷ d dˠ d̃ʰ dʷ ʈ ʈʷ ɖ ɖʷ ʔ ʔʷ/ t t̂ th tw d d̂ dh dw þ þw ð ðw q qw
/s sˠ sʷ z zˠ zʷ ʃ ʃʷ ʃˠ ʃ̃ʰ ʒ ʒʷ ʒˠ ʒ̃ʰ/ s ŝ sw z ž zw sh shw ŝh shh zh zhw ž h zhh
/θ θʷ θˠ θ̃ʰ ð ðʷ ðˠ ð̃ʰ w w̃ʰ ʁ ʁʷ ʁ̃ʰ h hʷ/ θ θw θx θh θq θqw θqx θqh w wh c cw ch h hw
/t͡ˠʃ t͡ˠʃ̃ʰ d͡ˠ͡ʒ d͡ˠʒ̃ʰ/tç tçh dç dçh
/ɾ ɾʷ ɾ̃ʰ/r rw rh
/l lʷ lˠ l̃ʰ k͡ʟ̥ k͡ʟ̥̃ʰ k͡ʟ̥ʷ ʟ ʟʷ ʟ̃ʰ/ ll llw l̂l llh k kh kw l lw lh


/i y ɯ u e ø ɤ o ɛ œ ʌ ɔ a ɑ/ y ŷ ŵ ŵ̀ i î å ô e ê u û a á
/iː yː ɯː uː eː øː ɤː oː ɛː œː ʌː ɔː aː ɑː/ ÿ yy ü uu ï ii ä̊ åå ë ee ü uu ä ä́

Syllable structure is (C)V(V2)(V3)(C2)(C3)
Any consonant can appear in the C position
Any vowel can appear in the V position
Only ɛ œ ʌ ɔ and a can appear in the V2 position
Only i y ɯ u e ø can appear in the V3 position
Only variants of w ʁ ɾ l ʟ s z ʃ and ʒ can appear in the C2 position
Any consonant besides k͡ʟ̥ k͡ʟ̥̃ʰ k͡ʟ̥ʷ t tˠ t̃ʰ tʷ d dˠ d̃ʰ dʷ ʈ ʈʷ ɖ ɖʷ ʔ and ʔʷ can appear in the C3 position

Here are some words with no meaning.

átwwshhë
rwt̂á
lleŝu
θqxûaytushhi
khuuθqychat̂ä̊
Edit: I am thinking of adding a series of 16 clicks. and maybe extra long vowels.
:con: Gândölansch (Gondolan)Feongkrwe (Feongrkean)Tamhanddön (Tamanthon)Θανηλοξαμαψⱶ (Thanelotic)Yônjcerth (Yaponese)Ba̧supan (Basupan)Mùthoķán (Mothaucian) :con:
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore »

Parlox wrote:The phonology of my new language Amhárål. I based this phoneme inventory on Archies phoneme inventory. Amhárål has 62 consonants and 28 vowels.

/m n/ m n
/t tˠ t̃ʰ tʷ d dˠ d̃ʰ dʷ ʈ ʈʷ ɖ ɖʷ ʔ ʔʷ/ t t̂ th tw d d̂ dh dw þ þw ð ðw q qw
/s sˠ sʷ z zˠ zʷ ʃ ʃʷ ʃˠ ʃ̃ʰ ʒ ʒʷ ʒˠ ʒ̃ʰ/ s ŝ sw z ž zw sh shw ŝh shh zh zhw ž h zhh
/θ θʷ θˠ θ̃ʰ ð ðʷ ðˠ ð̃ʰ w w̃ʰ ʁ ʁʷ ʁ̃ʰ h hʷ/ θ θw θx θh θq θqw θqx θqh w wh c cw ch h hw
/t͡ˠʃ t͡ˠʃ̃ʰ d͡ˠ͡ʒ d͡ˠʒ̃ʰ/tç tçh dç dçh
/ɾ ɾʷ ɾ̃ʰ/r rw rh
/l lʷ lˠ l̃ʰ k͡ʟ̥ k͡ʟ̥̃ʰ k͡ʟ̥ʷ ʟ ʟʷ ʟ̃ʰ/ ll llw l̂l llh k kh kw l lw lh


/i y ɯ u e ø ɤ o ɛ œ ʌ ɔ a ɑ/ y ŷ ŵ ŵ̀ i î å ô e ê u û a á
/iː yː ɯː uː eː øː ɤː oː ɛː œː ʌː ɔː aː ɑː/ ÿ yy ü uu ï ii ä̊ åå ë ee ü uu ä ä́

Syllable structure is (C)V(V2)(V3)(C2)(C3)
Any consonant can appear in the C position
Any vowel can appear in the V position
Only ɛ œ ʌ ɔ and a can appear in the V2 position
Only i y ɯ u e ø can appear in the V3 position
Only variants of w ʁ ɾ l ʟ s z ʃ and ʒ can appear in the C2 position
Any consonant besides k͡ʟ̥ k͡ʟ̥̃ʰ k͡ʟ̥ʷ t tˠ t̃ʰ tʷ d dˠ d̃ʰ dʷ ʈ ʈʷ ɖ ɖʷ ʔ and ʔʷ can appear in the C3 position

Here are some words with no meaning.

átwwshhë
rwt̂á
lleŝu
θqxûaytushhi
khuuθqychat̂ä̊
Edit: I am thinking of adding a series of 16 clicks. and maybe extra long vowels.
According to http://menzerath.phonetik.uni-frankfurt.de/L/L4904.html, !Xu has 141 phonemes. At most 15% of its consonants are "plain vanilla" consonants. It has many very rare segments (including clicks and ejectives and so on) and also has many common segments.
http://wals.info/languoid/lect/wals_code_xoo calls that language !Xóõ and lists other names it is called by other sources.
WALS.info says it has a large consonant inventory but only an average vowel-quality inventory (5 to 6 vowels).

According to http://wals.info/chapter/2 the largest vowel-quality inventory in their sample database is 14 vowel-qualities.
Breton, Catalan, English, Finnish, French, German, Hungarian, Norwegian, Romanian, and Turkish, are among European languages with large vowel-quality inventories in their sample database.
I could be miscounting (e.g. mistakenly counting some semivowels as vowels) but it looks like http://menzerath.phonetik.uni-frankfurt.de/L/L2010.html is saying French has 19 vowels (probably including some pairs that are "the same vowel-quality", differing in features other than closeness, backness, and roundedness).
Similarly http://menzerath.phonetik.uni-frankfurt.de/L/L2006.html seems to be saying Norwegian has 24 vowels (IIANM). It seems pretty clear in Norwegian's case that there definitely are pairs and larger groups of vowels which do not differ in "vowel-quality".

Having a three-or-more-way phonemic difference in length for vowels is not common. Neither is having a three-or-more-way phonemic difference in length for consonants.
Having both a three-way phonemic length-difference for consonants, and a three-way phonemic length-difference for vowels, is AFAIK unique to Estonian.
AIUI some linguisticians are eager to re-explain what happens in Estonian to avoid interpreting it as having three-way distinctions of phonemic length both among consonants and among vowels.

-----------

Just thought you might like to know.
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Parlox
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Parlox »

eldin raigmore wrote:
Parlox wrote:The phonology of my new language Amhárål. I based this phoneme inventory on Archies phoneme inventory. Amhárål has 62 consonants and 28 vowels.

/m n/ m n
/t tˠ t̃ʰ tʷ d dˠ d̃ʰ dʷ ʈ ʈʷ ɖ ɖʷ ʔ ʔʷ/ t t̂ th tw d d̂ dh dw þ þw ð ðw q qw
/s sˠ sʷ z zˠ zʷ ʃ ʃʷ ʃˠ ʃ̃ʰ ʒ ʒʷ ʒˠ ʒ̃ʰ/ s ŝ sw z ž zw sh shw ŝh shh zh zhw ž h zhh
/θ θʷ θˠ θ̃ʰ ð ðʷ ðˠ ð̃ʰ w w̃ʰ ʁ ʁʷ ʁ̃ʰ h hʷ/ θ θw θx θh θq θqw θqx θqh w wh c cw ch h hw
/t͡ˠʃ t͡ˠʃ̃ʰ d͡ˠ͡ʒ d͡ˠʒ̃ʰ/tç tçh dç dçh
/ɾ ɾʷ ɾ̃ʰ/r rw rh
/l lʷ lˠ l̃ʰ k͡ʟ̥ k͡ʟ̥̃ʰ k͡ʟ̥ʷ ʟ ʟʷ ʟ̃ʰ/ ll llw l̂l llh k kh kw l lw lh


/i y ɯ u e ø ɤ o ɛ œ ʌ ɔ a ɑ/ y ŷ ŵ ŵ̀ i î å ô e ê u û a á
/iː yː ɯː uː eː øː ɤː oː ɛː œː ʌː ɔː aː ɑː/ ÿ yy ü uu ï ii ä̊ åå ë ee ü uu ä ä́

Syllable structure is (C)V(V2)(V3)(C2)(C3)
Any consonant can appear in the C position
Any vowel can appear in the V position
Only ɛ œ ʌ ɔ and a can appear in the V2 position
Only i y ɯ u e ø can appear in the V3 position
Only variants of w ʁ ɾ l ʟ s z ʃ and ʒ can appear in the C2 position
Any consonant besides k͡ʟ̥ k͡ʟ̥̃ʰ k͡ʟ̥ʷ t tˠ t̃ʰ tʷ d dˠ d̃ʰ dʷ ʈ ʈʷ ɖ ɖʷ ʔ and ʔʷ can appear in the C3 position

Here are some words with no meaning.

átwwshhë
rwt̂á
lleŝu
θqxûaytushhi
khuuθqychat̂ä̊
Edit: I am thinking of adding a series of 16 clicks. and maybe extra long vowels.
According to http://menzerath.phonetik.uni-frankfurt.de/L/L4904.html, !Xu has 141 phonemes. At most 15% of its consonants are "plain vanilla" consonants. It has many very rare segments (including clicks and ejectives and so on) and also has many common segments.
http://wals.info/languoid/lect/wals_code_xoo calls that language !Xóõ and lists other names it is called by other sources.
WALS.info says it has a large consonant inventory but only an average vowel-quality inventory (5 to 6 vowels).

According to http://wals.info/chapter/2 the largest vowel-quality inventory in their sample database is 14 vowel-qualities.
Breton, Catalan, English, Finnish, French, German, Hungarian, Norwegian, Romanian, and Turkish, are among European languages with large vowel-quality inventories in their sample database.
I could be miscounting (e.g. mistakenly counting some semivowels as vowels) but it looks like http://menzerath.phonetik.uni-frankfurt.de/L/L2010.html is saying French has 19 vowels (probably including some pairs that are "the same vowel-quality", differing in features other than closeness, backness, and roundedness).
Similarly http://menzerath.phonetik.uni-frankfurt.de/L/L2006.html seems to be saying Norwegian has 24 vowels (IIANM). It seems pretty clear in Norwegian's case that there definitely are pairs and larger groups of vowels which do not differ in "vowel-quality".

Having a three-or-more-way phonemic difference in length for vowels is not common. Neither is having a three-or-more-way phonemic difference in length for consonants.
Having both a three-way phonemic length-difference for consonants, and a three-way phonemic length-difference for vowels, is AFAIK unique to Estonian.
AIUI some linguisticians are eager to re-explain what happens in Estonian to avoid interpreting it as having three-way distinctions of phonemic length both among consonants and among vowels.

-----------

Just thought you might like to know.
Thanks, this is very useful.
:con: Gândölansch (Gondolan)Feongkrwe (Feongrkean)Tamhanddön (Tamanthon)Θανηλοξαμαψⱶ (Thanelotic)Yônjcerth (Yaponese)Ba̧supan (Basupan)Mùthoķán (Mothaucian) :con:
Bachgen_o_Gymru
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Bachgen_o_Gymru »

New poster here just starting to delve into the world of conlanging. I came up with the following phonology for an as of yet unnamed conlang I've started working on:

Consonants:
p t k
ɓ ɗ
s̺ ɕ
ɸ θ̱ ɬ h
m n ŋ
β̞ j
ɾ ɺ

Vowels:
i y ɨ u
e ø ə o
æ a ɔ

All vowels can occur long or short.

Diphthongs:
æi əi ai ɔi æo əo ao ae ɔe


Root words are all monosyllabic, and have the structure: C(C)V(C), where "V" can be a short vowel, long vowel or diphthong. All consonants can begin a root word, but only /p/, /t/, /k/, /s̺/, /m/, /n/, and /ŋ/ can end a root word. Possible two-consonant clusters that can begin a root are as follows: pn, pj, pɾ, tm, tβ̞, tɾ, tj, km, kn, kβ̞, kj, kɾ, ɓn, ɓj, ɓɾ, ɗm, ɗβ̞, ɗj, s̺m, s̺n, s̺β̞, s̺j, ɸj, ɸɾ, mn, mj, mɾ, nj
Last edited by Bachgen_o_Gymru on 10 Aug 2017 13:32, edited 3 times in total.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore »

Bachgen_o_Gymru wrote: Diphthongs:
æi əi ai ɔi æo əo ao ae ɔe
Are your diphthongs phonemes in their own right?
Or are they merely the allowed two-vowel nuclear clusters?
(Either answer is OK.)
Bachgen_o_Gymru
rupestrian
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Bachgen_o_Gymru »

eldin raigmore wrote:
Bachgen_o_Gymru wrote: Diphthongs:
æi əi ai ɔi æo əo ao ae ɔe
Are your diphthongs phonemes in their own right?
Or are they merely the allowed two-vowel nuclear clusters?
(Either answer is OK.)
I'm not sure which would be the best way to analyze them, although I'd say they should be regarded as phonemes since the second element of the diphthongs is a semivowel, /i̯/, /e̯/ or /o̯/, which is contained within the nucleus.
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eldin raigmore
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Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore »

Bachgen_o_Gymru wrote:
eldin raigmore wrote:Are your diphthongs phonemes in their own right?
Or are they merely the allowed two-vowel nuclear clusters?
(Either answer is OK.)
I'm not sure which would be the best way to analyze them, although I'd say they should be regarded as phonemes since the second element of the diphthongs is a semivowel, /i̯/, /e̯/ or /o̯/, which is contained within the nucleus.
I'm sure that's good, if you have a reason to think so.
You might want to make sure to mention it in the phonology section of your eventual grammar.
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 15 Aug 2017 22:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Parlox
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Parlox »

This the phonology for a relative of O Sumrol called Šeǒ Blǔgreniěn.

/m n/ m n
/b t d k g ʔ/ b t d k g q
/t͡ʃ d͡ʒ/ x c̈
/s z ʃ ʒ ʂ ʐ/ s z š ž ş z̧
/w f v θ ð ɹ j h/ w f v th dh r y h
/ɾ/ ř
/ʀ/ ŗ
/l ʟ/ l j

/i y ɯ u/ ï ǔ ǔǔ
/ɯ̽/ ü
/e ɤ/ ë ǒ
/ɛ ʌ/ e-ě u
/a ɑ ɒ/ a ö o

syllable structure is (C1)(C2)(V2)V(C3)
Only k g t d s z ʃ ʒ ʂ ʐ f v θ ð t͡ʃ d͡ʒ m n ʀ l ɾ and ʟ can appear in the C1 position
Only ʟ l ʀ j s w k and z can appear in the C2 position
Any vowel can appear in the V position,
Only back vowels can appear in the V2 position
Only m n k g t s z θ ð ɹ ʟ ʃ ʒ ʂ ʐ and ʀ can appear in the C3 position
:con: Gândölansch (Gondolan)Feongkrwe (Feongrkean)Tamhanddön (Tamanthon)Θανηλοξαμαψⱶ (Thanelotic)Yônjcerth (Yaponese)Ba̧supan (Basupan)Mùthoķán (Mothaucian) :con:
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qwed117
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by qwed117 »

qwed117 wrote:I made this for a protolang on the IRC channel:
/m m̊ n n̊ ŋ ŋ̊/ <m mh n nh ñ ñh>
/p t̪ t k b d̪ d g/ <p ṭ t k b ḍ d g>
/s ś h j w ɰ ɾ/ <s ś h j/y w ġ r>
/a ɛ e i u o ɤ/ <a e è i u o à>
ś is a shibilant of indeterminate articulation. It has many different reflexes, from /s/ to /h/.
The language is sesquisyllabic, meaning that words that are nonomonosyllabic must contain a minor syllable. Generally this is the first syllable of a word, but in some trisyllables, it might be the second syllable. The only reduced syllables are /a i/, coming from a and à, and e è and i respectively. o and u both reduce to a null syllable. To mark a full initial syllable, an acute is added, so <álinge> is different from <alinge>, which is different from <àlinge>. Reduced syllables can only be CCVC. Full syllables can be CCVVCC. These are only maximums. In reality, most syllables are shorter.
Little vocab list with no meanings
*ñhgèèn
*sààlgin
*stimh
*sibooñ
*śkàġg
*ikkup
*jaskiik
Vocab list now with definitions!!! (interpunct used to separate sesquisyllable from next syllable)

*iyid 'do' (contracted onto verbs in a largely random pattern, usually as -d, -id, -yid, or -iyid)
*ñh·rààse 'nose'
*ñh·rààsid 'smell'
*m·sġaaw 'sour'
*ṭiwsèè 'finger'
*ṭsiyèd 'touch'
*ḍñest 'animal'
*ḍuñsid 'hunt'
*ś·muè 'horse'
*ś·muid 'ride'
*r·baanh 'one'
*ñawon 'two'
*mh·deen 'three'
*ġiñgśii 'four'
*ḍ·śoow 'five'
*tè·y·dà 'six'
*niśkoo 'seven'
*irkuàp 'eight'
*r·tèè 'nine'
*r·baanh k·sèèw 'ten'
*atèèd 'lengthen'
*ñhr·gèèn 'bent'
*ñhú·n·yid 'turn'
*sàà·l·gin 'brother'
*s·timh 'water'
*sibooñ 'name'
*ś·kàġg 'ear'
*ikkup 'through'
*yaskiik 'cow'
*è·hg·śàà 'hair'
*hiwààg 'round'
*ps·uuw 'leg'
*ñ·buu 'foot'
*nh·tàà 'father'
*parśèen 'mother'
*pàà·h·no 'here'
*pmiid 'stay'
*r·nhat Imperfect Marker
*ġuàr·ha 'death'
*sasàb 'down'
*sa·sàwid 'fall'
*ogèsa 'right'
*agèśid 'turn'
*abemh 'hand'
*r·ga 'away'
*mh·ga Genitive Particle
Last edited by qwed117 on 09 Oct 2017 02:45, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
My minicity is [http://zyphrazia.myminicity.com/xml]Zyphrazia and [http://novland.myminicity.com/xml]Novland.

Minicity has fallen :(
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