Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread [2011–2018]

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Jampot911
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Jampot911 »

Frislander wrote: 28 Apr 2018 12:05 /i~ɨ/
/e~ə o/
/a/

Central vowels are fronted adjacent to palatal consonants.
This phonemic inventory seems really interesting (I may just have to adapt/steal it for myself, if that's alright with you 😁). May I just ask whether you intended for the fronting rule to occur next to the palatalised bilabials as well?
What can I say? I like making stuff up.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by k1234567890y »

Jampot911 wrote: 28 Apr 2018 15:51
Frislander wrote: 28 Apr 2018 12:05 /i~ɨ/
/e~ə o/
/a/

Central vowels are fronted adjacent to palatal consonants.
This phonemic inventory seems really interesting (I may just have to adapt/steal it for myself, if that's alright with you 😁). May I just ask whether you intended for the fronting rule to occur next to the palatalised bilabials as well?
uncertain about the allophone parts, but the arrangement /a e i o/ is attested in natural languages.

http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41583 < here there is a list of vowel systems in natural languages.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander »

Jampot911 wrote: 28 Apr 2018 15:51
Frislander wrote: 28 Apr 2018 12:05 /i~ɨ/
/e~ə o/
/a/

Central vowels are fronted adjacent to palatal consonants.
This phonemic inventory seems really interesting (I may just have to adapt/steal it for myself, if that's alright with you 😁). May I just ask whether you intended for the fronting rule to occur next to the palatalised bilabials as well?
That's what I meant, yes.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

I made an inventory using all 26 English letters.
/m n ŋ ɲ/ m n q j
/p ᵐb t nd k ᵑg/ p b t d k g
/f v s z [θ ð] ɣ h/ f v s z s z c h
/w l r j ɰ/ w l r y x
/i u e o a/ i u e o a
A more digraph one would be
m n ng ny
p b t d k g
f v s/th z/dh gh h
w l r y wh
i u e o a
More diacritics would be
m n ŋ ɲ
p b t d k g
f v s/ϑ z/δ ǥ h
w l r j ẃ
i u e o a
The allophones happen before triphthongs or diphthongs. Which would be /ae ao ei eu oe ou iae iao/ ae ao ee eo oe oo iae iao
Other language I’m working on, minimal
/m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
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sangi39
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by sangi39 »

Birdlang wrote: 01 May 2018 01:48 /m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
Why not something like:

/m n ŋ/ <m n g>
/p t tˀ k ʔ/ <p t d k q>
/f ɕ x h/ <f c x h>
/w ɽ j/ <w r j>

/i ɨ u/ <i y u>
/e ə o/ <e ə o>
/a/ <a>

...?

Cuts down on the use of characters not found on many keyboards in favour of characters that you haven't use yet, while still making sense (well, at least, for example, <q> for the glottal stop is attested, as is <g> for the velar nasal, just not in the same language, as far as I know).
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver »

sangi39 wrote: 01 May 2018 05:16
Birdlang wrote: 01 May 2018 01:48 /m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
Why not something like:

/m n ŋ/ <m n g>
/p t tˀ k ʔ/ <p t d k q>
/f ɕ x h/ <f c x h>
/w ɽ j/ <w r j>

/i ɨ u/ <i y u>
/e ə o/ <e ə o>
/a/ <a>

...?

Cuts down on the use of characters not found on many keyboards in favour of characters that you haven't use yet, while still making sense (well, at least, for example, <q> for the glottal stop is attested, as is <g> for the velar nasal, just not in the same language, as far as I know).
I like the orthography for it. But the one thing that glares at me is the glottalized voiceless alveolar stop /tˀ/. It seems quite out of place. Which, in fairness, can totally happen IRL I'm sure. But it feels sort of thrown in. I'd expect perhaps a series of retroflexes? Idk.

But, I do like it.
wintiver
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver »

I've been making strides with a conlang but I was thinking I would like to have some of its neighboring languages should be quite dissimilar to it.

I have a strong urge to make a language with many series of stops, I was thinking of going to as many as 5 series of stops, a basic 3 (maybe 4) vowel system with length contrast.

I don't know how naturalistic this is though.

Here's my thought on the basic phonemic inventory.

Nasals m n ɲ ŋ
Voiced Stops b d ɟ g
Unaspirated Stops p t c k
Aspirated Stops pʰ tʰ cʰ kʰ
Ejectives pʼ tʼ cʼ kʼ
Pre-Nasal Clicks ᵑǃ ᵑǁ
Aspirated Clicks ǃʰ ǁʰ
Fricatives s x h
Trills r
Approximants w j

(Maybe Prenasalized Implosives ᵐɓ ⁿɗ ᶮʄ ᵑɠ)

Short Vowels ɪ ʊ ɛ ɑ
Long Vowels iː uː eː ɑː

For the series of stops I was also debating on having a pre-nasal series. Then, as I kept pronouncing pre-nasal voiced stops they became implosivized, which was weird. So I was debating on potentially a pre-nasalized implosive series as well. That may be a bit kitchen-sinky though. Opinons are welcome if this basic sketch warrants any.

Also, potentially I'd want a basic High/Low Tone system too.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

A different protolang
/m n ŋ/ m n ŋ or m n ng
/p pʰ t tʰ k kʰ ʔ/ b p d t g k q or b p d t g k j
/f s ʂ ʐ~ɻ ɕ ç x h/ f s z r x j ĥ h or f s sh r x xy h xh
/l j ɥ w/ l y ÿ w or l y~i ÿ~ü w~u
/ɬ ʎ̝̊ ʟ̝̊/ Ɨ ⱡ ɫ or lh ly ll

/i y ʉ ɯ u e ø ɵ ɤ o ɛ œ ɞ ʌ ɔ a ɶ ɒ̈ ɑ ɒ/ plus length i ü ů ï u é ö ô e o è õ ø ŏ ò a ơ ä ɑ ɒ plus macron or i ü û ï u é ö ô e o è ó ø ô ò a ē ō â å plus double vowels
/Ṽ/ Vƞ or Vnh
I’m trying to think of how I could evolve different languages from these. The first one is more diacritic laden and the second is more Pinyin-influenced. I’m making this language for a humanoid species.
My other protolang I’m working on
/m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ/ <m mv n ṇ ň ŋ ŋq>
/p b p̪ b̪ t d t̪ d̪ ʈ ɖ c ɟ k g q ɢ ʡ ʔ/ <p b pv bv t d ŧ đ ṭ ḍ ť ď k g kġ gġ x q>
/ɸ β f v θ~ʂ ð~ʐ s z ʃ ʒ ɕ ʑ x ɣ ʁ ħ ʕ h ɦ/ <f ḇ fv ḇv ṣ ẓ s z ş z̧ š ž ḵ ḡ ḡġ ħ c h ḫ>
/ʋ ɹ l j/ <v r l j>
/ɢ̆/ <ġ>
/ɖɽ ɽr/ <ḍr dr>
/ɭ̝̊ ɬʲː/ <ḷ lľ>
/ʎ̆ ʟ̆/ <ľ ł>

/iː yː uː ɪ ʏ ʊ eː øː oː œ ɔ æː ɐ ɑː ɒ̃ æ̃/ <ii yy uu i y u e øø oo ø o æ a aa ǫ ą>
/V̤ V̰ Vˀ Vˁ Vʰ Vʲ V˞ Vʷ/ <Vh Vḫ Vq Vc Vħ Vj Vr Vv>
Thanks shimobaatar for helping me romanize it. Nice to see how you used the Somali c for the voiced pharyngeal fricative.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos »

A diachronic vowel thing inspired by the Southern American Vowel Shift:

i iː > i ei̯
e eː > e ai̯
a aː > a au̯
o oː > o eː
u uː > u iː
ai̯ au̯ > aː oː
oi̯ eu̯ > uː ou̯
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore »

Porphyrogenitos wrote: 18 May 2018 08:35 A diachronic vowel thing inspired by the Southern American Vowel Shift:
What?!? We Southrons have _always_ pronounced vowels exactly as they _should_ be pronounced!!




😏
shimobaatar
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by shimobaatar »

Porphyrogenitos wrote: 18 May 2018 08:35 A diachronic vowel thing inspired by the Southern American Vowel Shift:

i iː > i ei̯
e eː > e ai̯
a aː > a au̯
o oː > o eː
u uː > u iː
ai̯ au̯ > aː oː
oi̯ eu̯ > uː ou̯
I really like this!
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

Some quick sketches
Lituko
/m n ŋ p t k ʔ f s ʃ h l w j i u ə ɑ ɒ/ m n g p t k q f s x h l w y i u e a o
Toj
/n t k ʔ s ʂ h ɺ j i ɯ e ɤ a/ n t k ' s c h r j i u e o a
Baceqoki
/m n ŋ ɲ p pʰ t tʰ c cʰ k kʰ ʔ f v s z ʃ ʒ ç ʝ x ɣ h ɦ l ɹ w j ɾ ɬ ʎ i ɨ u e o ə a ɑ/ m n ng gn b p d t j c g k q f v s z š ž ś ź x ġ h gh l ŗ w y r ł gl i ı u e o ė a ȧ
Moñño
/m n ɲ b t d k ʔ f s z ʃ ʒ x ɣ ħ ʕ h l w j ɾ i u ɘ ɛ ɔ ə ɑ/ m n ñ b t d k q f s z š ž ḫ ǥ ħ ƣ l w y r i u ē e o ā a
Dot Island language
/m n ŋ p t k ʔ ɕ h w ɾ i iː u uː e eː o oː ɑ ɑː ɑi ɑu ei eu oi ou/ m n g p t k ʻ s h w r i ī u ū e ē o ō a ā ae ao ei eu oe ou
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang »

wintiver wrote: 03 May 2018 18:33
sangi39 wrote: 01 May 2018 05:16
Birdlang wrote: 01 May 2018 01:48 /m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
Why not something like:

/m n ŋ/ <m n g>
/p t tˀ k ʔ/ <p t d k q>
/f ɕ x h/ <f c x h>
/w ɽ j/ <w r j>

/i ɨ u/ <i y u>
/e ə o/ <e ə o>
/a/ <a>

...?

Cuts down on the use of characters not found on many keyboards in favour of characters that you haven't use yet, while still making sense (well, at least, for example, <q> for the glottal stop is attested, as is <g> for the velar nasal, just not in the same language, as far as I know).
I like the orthography for it. But the one thing that glares at me is the glottalized voiceless alveolar stop /tˀ/. It seems quite out of place. Which, in fairness, can totally happen IRL I'm sure. But it feels sort of thrown in. I'd expect perhaps a series of retroflexes? Idk.

But, I do like it.
The glottalized stop came from a retroflex t.
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Frislander
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander »

/p t k k͡p/
/t͡s~t͡ʃ/
/s~ʃ h~ç/
/ɾ ɣ~j w/

/i ɪ~ɨ o~u/
/ɛ~æ ɑ/

The main difference between /i/ and /ɨ/ is the presence vs. absence respectively on a preceding consonant. The consonants which show this most obviously are /t͡s~t͡ʃ s~ʃ h~ç ɣ~j/, where the former occurs before /ɨ/ and the latter before /i/ and /ɛ/. Additionally there is a tone distinction on vowels, high vs. low.

Syllable structure is CV(s, h, ɾ). Additionally there are some cluster-resolution processes that occur when certain consonants come into contact. Firstly /i/ and /ɨ/ undergo metathesis with /h/ when they precede it, and are deleted when between a single permissible coda consonant and a following consonant when they have a low tone. Secondly whenever /h/ would occur after another consonant/cluster, it is deleted and a following low-toned vowel becomes high. Finally /ɨ/ and /i/ are deleted before another vowel, however /i/ causes /ɑ ɛ ɨ/ to front to /ɛ i i/ respectively. Finally if a consonantal prefix would result in a word-initial cluster an /ɨ/ is inserted to break it up. This can lead to interestin contrasts, e.g. /ɾ-kɑn/ > /rɨkɑn/ but /r-hɑn/ > /ɾɑ́n/ and /si-hɑn/ > /sɛ́n/.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco »

Here's a vowel system I quickly came up with, and I want to see how naturalistic it is.

/a e̞ ə i o̞/

I know /u/ is pretty widely attested, especially in a five vowel system, but I'm trying out the Nahuatl vowel system, just with /ə/ added.
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by shimobaatar »

LinguoFranco wrote: 29 May 2018 20:16 Here's a vowel system I quickly came up with, and I want to see how naturalistic it is.

/a e̞ ə i o̞/

I know /u/ is pretty widely attested, especially in a five vowel system, but I'm trying out the Nahuatl vowel system, just with /ə/ added.
Looks fine to me.
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LinguoFranco
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco »

Here's a new phoneme inventory I've compiled. The vowel system is based on Abkhaz, but I tried to do my own thing with the consonants. I like it for the most part, but it feels incomplete, like I'm missing something, or it may just need some more work. I don't know if I should treat palatals as official phonemes in the language, or occur as a part of sound change. The language makes heavy use of palatalization and labialization. I don't know if the affricates or /ɕ/ should also have palatalized versions, since you could argue they are technically already palatalized.

I was also going to have /k/ be a coda, and it still does occur as a word-final coda, but is altered when it precedes /t/, so a word like /mak.ta/ becomes /mat.ta/

/i~ə~u/
/e~a~o/
/m n ɲ/
/b t d c ɟ k g/
/s z ɕ ɦ/
/j w~ʋ ʍ r l ʟ/
/t͡ɕ d͡ʑ/
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Shemtov »

/u:ⁿǂàma/, a distant relative of Eroki Gǂama, spoken on an island of the coast of the island where the latter is spoken.
/p pʰ ⁿp t tʰ ⁿt t͡ɬ t͡ɬʰ t͡ɕ t͡ɕʰ ⁿt͡ɕ k kʰ ⁿk ʔ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/s ɬ ɕ h/
/ɾ/
/w l j/

/ʘ ʘʰ ⁿʘ ǀ ǀʰ ⁿǀ ǀˀ ǃ ǃʰ ⁿǃ ǃˀ ǂ ǂʰ ⁿǂ ǂˀ/

/i u ɛ ɔ a/
/i: y: u: ɯ: e: o: ɛ: ɔ: a:/
/ɔʊ ɛɪ əu əi/

/˧ ˩/
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

LinguoFranco wrote: 04 Jun 2018 02:49 I was also going to have /k/ be a coda, and it still does occur as a word-final coda, but is altered when it precedes /t/, so a word like /mak.ta/ becomes /mat.ta/
I really like this part [:)]
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver »

Shemtov wrote: 04 Jun 2018 07:40 /u:ⁿǂàma/, a distant relative of Eroki Gǂama, spoken on an island of the coast of the island where the latter is spoken.
/p pʰ ⁿp t tʰ ⁿt t͡ɬ t͡ɬʰ t͡ɕ t͡ɕʰ ⁿt͡ɕ k kʰ ⁿk ʔ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/s ɬ ɕ h/
/ɾ/
/w l j/

/ʘ ʘʰ ⁿʘ ǀ ǀʰ ⁿǀ ǀˀ ǃ ǃʰ ⁿǃ ǃˀ ǂ ǂʰ ⁿǂ ǂˀ/

/i u ɛ ɔ a/
/i: y: u: ɯ: e: o: ɛ: ɔ: a:/
/ɔʊ ɛɪ əu əi/

/˧ ˩/
I am especially a fan of the prenasalized unvoiced stops. Is the prenasalization voiceless? If/when the prenasals occur intervocalically are they voiced? I just think the stops are lovely as hell.

I'm not great at reproducing clicks though I try. I'm absolute trash at reproducing aspirated v. non-aspirated distinction on clicks consistently but I do like the phonaesthetic of it. Your vowel system is a gem too. I am a sucker for a back unrounded vowel.
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