Why not!Linguifex wrote:Looks like a delightful mix of Amazonian and Mesoamerican.Frislander wrote:This on I call Absaalotl
/b t t͡ɬ t͡ʃ k ʔ/
/s x/
/w~m l~n/
/i iː eː a aː o oː ea̯ oa̯/
/w/ is realised as [m] word-initially and finally and [w] elsewhere. /l/ is realised as [n] word-initially, before /t͡ɬ/ and word-finally, and [l] elsewhere.
Syllable structure is CV(C), where any consonant may appear initially or finally.
Might I recommend /w/ [m] before /t͡ɬ/ as well?
Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread [2011–2018]
- Frislander
- mayan
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
- alynnidalar
- greek
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- Location: Michigan, USA
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
I personally like /x s z/, but of course this is all down to personal preference.LinguoFranco wrote: Some sound changes I am considering are replacing /x/ with /h./ Do you like [muxa] or [muha] better, soundwise? What about /s/ vs /ɕ/ and /z/ vs /ʑ/? I don't really have a preference over /v/ or /w/.
- LinguoFranco
- greek
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
I hear that a lot of languages don't distinguish between /v/ and /w/, but is it unusual for a language to distinguish between /β/ and /w/?
- Frislander
- mayan
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- DesEsseintes
- mongolian
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
My protolanguage Proto-Híí distinguishes them at one point, though they do merge later on.LinguoFranco wrote:I hear that a lot of languages don't distinguish between /v/ and /w/, but is it unusual for a language to distinguish between /β/ and /w/?
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
The distinction is also found in most Ndu languages, where /β/ or /v/ is commonly also the only voiced fricative phoneme. I've always found this setup as somewhat surprising, but there you go.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
I think it's not usual to distinguish such similar sounds.LinguoFranco wrote:I hear that a lot of languages don't distinguish between /v/ and /w/, but is it unusual for a language to distinguish between /β/ and /w/?
But it do appear. Some state of Spanish, before b - v merger, distinguished all three.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
This I call Bïlan:
/p b t d ts dz ʈʂ ɖʐ tɕ dʑ k g/
/m n ɳ ɲ ŋ/
/s z ʂ ʐ ɕ ʑ h/
/l j/
/i y e ø u ɯ o a/
It has rounding harmony, with /a/ being the unrounded version of /o/
/p b t d ts dz ʈʂ ɖʐ tɕ dʑ k g/
/m n ɳ ɲ ŋ/
/s z ʂ ʐ ɕ ʑ h/
/l j/
/i y e ø u ɯ o a/
It has rounding harmony, with /a/ being the unrounded version of /o/
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
-JRR Tolkien
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Shemtov: That looks neat. I have yet to try my hand with alveolo-palatals and I think having them with retroflexes is interesting.
I suffer from a disease where I am forever unsatisfied with this phonology. It really makes developing a language deeply as issue. I really should just nail it down and move on.
Consonants:
m n
p t ts k kx ʔ
p' t' k'
ɸ s ʃ h
ʋ ɹ* l j
*may end up going with r or make it available allophonically
Vowels:
i e a u, high and low tones-
CVN (Where c is any consonant and n is a nasal, fricative, ɹ or l)
I really want to have ejective forms of plain stops but not affricates but this doesn't seem attested anywhere I have been able to find so far. It seems like everytime a language has ejective stops and has affricates it has ejective affricates. It seems far more likely that I'd have ts' and kx' if I have p' t' and k'.
Does anyone know of a language that doesn't follow this pattern? I am super interested in any languages with a partial ejective series actually.
I suffer from a disease where I am forever unsatisfied with this phonology. It really makes developing a language deeply as issue. I really should just nail it down and move on.
Consonants:
m n
p t ts k kx ʔ
p' t' k'
ɸ s ʃ h
ʋ ɹ* l j
*may end up going with r or make it available allophonically
Vowels:
i e a u, high and low tones-
CVN (Where c is any consonant and n is a nasal, fricative, ɹ or l)
I really want to have ejective forms of plain stops but not affricates but this doesn't seem attested anywhere I have been able to find so far. It seems like everytime a language has ejective stops and has affricates it has ejective affricates. It seems far more likely that I'd have ts' and kx' if I have p' t' and k'.
Does anyone know of a language that doesn't follow this pattern? I am super interested in any languages with a partial ejective series actually.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Reminds me of one I posted here a few months ago. Retroflex affricates are nice.Shemtov wrote:This I call Bïlan:
/p b t d ts dz ʈʂ ɖʐ tɕ dʑ k g/
/m n ɳ ɲ ŋ/
/s z ʂ ʐ ɕ ʑ h/
/l j/
/i y e ø u ɯ o a/
It has rounding harmony, with /a/ being the unrounded version of /o/
Something I've been trying to get good:
/m (n̪) n (ɲ) ŋ (ŋʷ)/
/p ((t̪ʰ) t̪) (tʰ) t ((cʰ) c) (kʰ) k ((kʷʰ) kʷ) ((qʰ) q ((qʷh) qʷ))) (ʔ)/
/s (x (xʷ) (X (Xʷ))) (h)/
/l ɹ j/
/r (ɾ)/
/i iː ɨ ɨː ɯ ɯː u uː e eː ɤ ɤː o oː a aː/
A lot of this hinges on the fact that I want both <ngw> and <qh>, but I can't find a nice romanization for the labuvulars.
-
- greek
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- Location: Australia
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/p̺ p t ʈ c k ʔ/ <pt p t tr c k '>
/m̺ m n ŋ/ <mt m n ng>
/β̼ ɸ ɬ s h/ <bb f ls s h>
/l ɽ j/ <l r j>
/i u e o æ ɑ/ <i u e o ae a>
/ĩ ũ ẽ õ æ̃ ɑ̃/ <ix ux ex ox aex ax>
(C)V(ɑ, l, ŋ, ʔ)
/m̺ m n ŋ/ <mt m n ng>
/β̼ ɸ ɬ s h/ <bb f ls s h>
/l ɽ j/ <l r j>
/i u e o æ ɑ/ <i u e o ae a>
/ĩ ũ ẽ õ æ̃ ɑ̃/ <ix ux ex ox aex ax>
(C)V(ɑ, l, ŋ, ʔ)
A signature.
- Frislander
- mayan
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- Location: The North
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/p t t͡ɬ t͡ʃ k ʔ/
/b d/
/s x/
/w l j/
/i e ɨ a o/ plus or minus nasalisation
Syllable structure is CV(F) where F is one of /ʔ h/.
/b d/
/s x/
/w l j/
/i e ɨ a o/ plus or minus nasalisation
Syllable structure is CV(F) where F is one of /ʔ h/.
- LinguoFranco
- greek
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- Location: U.S.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Here is a five vowel system I came up with.
/ɐ e̞ ɨ o̞ ə/
What do you think?
/ɐ e̞ ɨ o̞ ə/
What do you think?
- Man in Space
- roman
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- Location: Ohio
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Inspired by Cuvok:
/m mʲ n nʲ ŋ ŋʷ/
/p pʲ b bʲ t tʃ d dʒ k kʲ kʷ kʷʲ g gʲ gʷ gʷʲ q qʷ ɢ ɢʷ ʔ ʔʷ/
/s ʃ z ʒ x xʷ χ χʷ h hʷ/
/ɬ ɮ/
/ɾ ɾʲ/
/a ə/
a ə → œ y / {mʲ,pʲ,bʲ,kʷʲ,gʷʲ}_
a ə → ɒ u / {kʷ,gʷ,qʷ,ɢʷ,xʷ,χʷ}_
a ə → ɔ o / {m,p,b,ʔʷ}_
a ə → ɑ ʌ / {k,g,q,ɢ,x,χ}_
a ə → ɛ i / {tʃ,dʒ,ʃ,ʒ}_
Roots of the form (V)CV(CV)(C)
qʷəkʷa → qokɒ
ʔʷanəpa → ʔɔnəpɔ
kʷʲəʃə → kyʃi
ɾʲakʲ → ɾɛkʲ
gəʃə → gʌʃi
mʲakʲ → mœkʲ
gʷʲəgʷʲa → gygœ
/m mʲ n nʲ ŋ ŋʷ/
/p pʲ b bʲ t tʃ d dʒ k kʲ kʷ kʷʲ g gʲ gʷ gʷʲ q qʷ ɢ ɢʷ ʔ ʔʷ/
/s ʃ z ʒ x xʷ χ χʷ h hʷ/
/ɬ ɮ/
/ɾ ɾʲ/
/a ə/
a ə → œ y / {mʲ,pʲ,bʲ,kʷʲ,gʷʲ}_
a ə → ɒ u / {kʷ,gʷ,qʷ,ɢʷ,xʷ,χʷ}_
a ə → ɔ o / {m,p,b,ʔʷ}_
a ə → ɑ ʌ / {k,g,q,ɢ,x,χ}_
a ə → ɛ i / {tʃ,dʒ,ʃ,ʒ}_
Roots of the form (V)CV(CV)(C)
qʷəkʷa → qokɒ
ʔʷanəpa → ʔɔnəpɔ
kʷʲəʃə → kyʃi
ɾʲakʲ → ɾɛkʲ
gəʃə → gʌʃi
mʲakʲ → mœkʲ
gʷʲəgʷʲa → gygœ
Twin Aster megathread
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/p pʲ t k/ <p pʸ t k>
/b bʲ d ɡ/ <b bʸ d g>
/ɓ ɓʲ ɗ/ <q qʸ dh>
/m mʲ n ŋ/ <m mʸ n ng>
/ɾ/ <r>
/ɸ ɸʲ ɬ s x/ <f fʸ x s h>
/β βʲ ɮ z ɣ/ <b bʸ l z gh>
/w j/ <w y>
/i ɨ e u/ <i u e~é o~ó>
/əɪ̯ ə a o/ <ee e a o>
/b bʲ d ɡ/ <b bʸ d g>
/ɓ ɓʲ ɗ/ <q qʸ dh>
/m mʲ n ŋ/ <m mʸ n ng>
/ɾ/ <r>
/ɸ ɸʲ ɬ s x/ <f fʸ x s h>
/β βʲ ɮ z ɣ/ <b bʸ l z gh>
/w j/ <w y>
/i ɨ e u/ <i u e~é o~ó>
/əɪ̯ ə a o/ <ee e a o>
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Vowel inventory:
/i ɪ y u/ <í/ei i ö o>
/e ɵ/ <e u>
/æ a ɔ/ <ä é a>
/œʏ aʊ ɔʊ/ <ú/ü ó á>
Alternatively:
/i y u/ <i ú u>
/e ø o/ <e ó o/á>
/a/ <a>
/ie ai/ <í é/ei>
Or:
/i ɨ ʉ u/ <é/ei i u ó>
/e o ɤ/ <e/í o a>
/ɒ/ <ú>
/aʊ/ <á>
/i ɪ y u/ <í/ei i ö o>
/e ɵ/ <e u>
/æ a ɔ/ <ä é a>
/œʏ aʊ ɔʊ/ <ú/ü ó á>
Alternatively:
/i y u/ <i ú u>
/e ø o/ <e ó o/á>
/a/ <a>
/ie ai/ <í é/ei>
Or:
/i ɨ ʉ u/ <é/ei i u ó>
/e o ɤ/ <e/í o a>
/ɒ/ <ú>
/aʊ/ <á>
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Gotski, a minority endangered East Germanic language spoken in the Crimea by c. 1,000 people:
/p pʲ b bʲ k g/
/ f fʲ v vʲ s z ʂ ʐ h/
/m mʲ n nʲ/
/l lʲ r rʲ/
/i e a o u/
/ai au/
/p pʲ b bʲ k g/
/ f fʲ v vʲ s z ʂ ʐ h/
/m mʲ n nʲ/
/l lʲ r rʲ/
/i e a o u/
/ai au/
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
-JRR Tolkien
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
I've been looking for a really good slavic inventory now...
/m mʲ n nʲ ŋ ŋʲ/
/p t k b d g pʲ bʲ tʲ dʲ kʲ gʲ/
/f v s l r fʲ vʲ sʲ lʲ rʲ ts tsʲ/
/w j h ɦ/
/a e i o u aː eː iː oː uː/
/ja je jo wa we wo/
/aj ej aw ow/
/ɨ ə ɵ/
/m mʲ n nʲ ŋ ŋʲ/
/p t k b d g pʲ bʲ tʲ dʲ kʲ gʲ/
/f v s l r fʲ vʲ sʲ lʲ rʲ ts tsʲ/
/w j h ɦ/
/a e i o u aː eː iː oː uː/
/ja je jo wa we wo/
/aj ej aw ow/
/ɨ ə ɵ/
Spoiler:
- LinguoFranco
- greek
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 20 Jul 2016 17:49
- Location: U.S.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Now I know there are always exceptions, but it seems that /ŋ/ and /ɱ/ are not usually phonemic. Does the same apply for /ɲ/? I know it is found as a phoneme in Spanish, but otherwise does it tend to be not phonemic like the velar nasal and the labiodental dental nasal?
- DesEsseintes
- mongolian
- Posts: 4331
- Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Phonemic /ɱ/ is, as far as I am aware, unattested, but phonemic /ɲ/ and /ŋ/ are both extremely common.
A good place to look for languages with many contrasting nasal stop phonemes is Australia, where a "typical" inventory will include most or all of /m n̪ n ɳ ɲ ŋ/.
Have a look at Kalkatungu for example. Enindhilyakwa (a personal fave) has the added bonus of distinguishing a labialised velar /ŋʷ/ as well.
Hope that helps.
A good place to look for languages with many contrasting nasal stop phonemes is Australia, where a "typical" inventory will include most or all of /m n̪ n ɳ ɲ ŋ/.
Have a look at Kalkatungu for example. Enindhilyakwa (a personal fave) has the added bonus of distinguishing a labialised velar /ŋʷ/ as well.
Hope that helps.