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PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2012, 00:27 
MVP
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I suppose it would be theoretically possible to contrast unaspirated, lightly aspirated and heavily aspirated plosives. One could argue that it would be difficult to detect the difference. But you could say the same of many distinction that aren't made in one's L1. Many would find it difficult to hear the difference between the 3-4 contrasting coronal POAs in some Australian langs. I am not aware of any language that contrast heavy, light and no aspiration though. So the answer I can give is: "I don't know".

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PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2012, 00:36 
shadowlight
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That sounds like a nice idea, CMunk. The strong aspiration could just be gemination + aspiration, or perhaps a phonemic contrast between plain, aspirated and pre-aspirated? Let's see... Something like this, maybe:

/m n ŋ/ <m n nh>
/p pʰ pʰː t tʰ tʰː k kʰ kʰː/ <b p ph d t th g k kh>
/s h/ <s h>
/ʋ ɾ j/ <v r y>

/i o ə a/ <i o e a>
/iə̯ oə̯ ai̯ oi̯/ <ie oe ai oi>

(N)(C)(s,r,j,ʋ)V(tʰ, tʰː, s)

• Diphthongs can only appear in open syllables.
• Gemination is neutralized in a word-initial position.
• /s h/ is voiced a post-vocalic position, unless followed by a voiceless consonant.
• /VhC/ is realized as a voiceless vowel and a voiceless consonant.
• /ro/ is realized as [ɾʷʊ] in stressed, open syllables.
• /m n ŋ ʋ ɾ j/ are devoiced before /p t k s/.
• Initial /mp nt ŋk/ are realized as voiced, prenasalized stops.

Stress falls on the final syllable of a word, unless that syllable is closed or contains a diphthong, in which case it falls on the penultimate syllable.

<mbath> /mpatʰː/ [mbatʰː] "horse"
<nyaro> /njaro/ [njaˈɾʷʊ] "home"
<vies> /ʋiə̯s/ [ʋiə̯z] "leaf"
<tveh> /tʰʋəh/ [tʰʋəɦ] "water"
<mihsko> /mihskʰo/ [mi̥sˈkʰo] "bread"

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Ón gráti sem jett barn kvéner jag syggji jett lag um deiðan...
[oʊ̯n ˈgɾaːtɪ sɛmː jɛtː baɾn ˈkʰʋɛːnɛɾ jaː ˈsʏd͡ʑːɪ jɛtː laː ʊmː ˈdɛɪ̯an]


Last edited by Ceresz on Mon 23 Apr 2012, 20:16, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2012, 20:16 
mayan
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xingoxa wrote:
Omzinesý wrote:
ɑ~a (never central)



Are [a] and [ɑ] in free variation, or is there a conditioned allophony?

Yes, it is conditioned. There is variation between palatalized and velarized consonants. So it's quite similar to а - я in Russian (or slavonic languages altogether).


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PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2012, 16:13 
mayan
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/i ɛ ɛː a aː ə ɔ ɔː u/
/t d k g ʔ f v s x h m n ŋ ṽ l~ɫ j/

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PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2012, 18:58 
greek
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/e ɘ ɤ /
/t d k g s x h n l r j ʃ ʒ θ ð ɣ/
this one allows you to speak without moving your lips or lower jaw
on jum djun rjow ju rown ne mow re fìʃi djun djònu skàʃi fa


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PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2012, 19:59 
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One I came up with today:

Stops:
/p b t tʷ d dʷ k g kʷ gʷ/
<p b t ty d dy k g ky gy>
Fricatives:
/s~z f ʋ x ɣ ʂ ʐ/
<s f v ch gh c z>
Affricates:
/tʂ ts tsʷ/
<cz q qy>
Approx/Misc:
/l ɻ j ɥ ʟ w/
<l r j jy ɬ w>
Nasals:
/n nʷ m ŋ/
<n ny m ng>
Vowels:
/i ɑ o u ʊ e æ/
<i a o u ö e ä>

This is all I have for now. The whole <y> for labiazation came from this train of thought: since /y/ is used to show a rounded vowel in IPA, what's preventing you from using it to represent a rounded consonant?

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PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2012, 01:09 
mayan
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/m n ɳ/
/p t tʂ k ʔ/
/s ʂ ħ h/
/ʋ l ɭ~ɽ j ʕ/
Syllables are (C)CV(C)(C). Pharyngeals lower vowels.

/a e i o u ɯ ɤ/ + length
-No diphthongs, vowel sequences are broken up with /j/ or /ʋ/ depending on whether they're front or back.


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PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012, 10:16 
earth
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xingoxa wrote:
I suppose it would be theoretically possible to contrast unaspirated, lightly aspirated and heavily aspirated plosives.

Some people say this is what Korean does.

nmn wrote:
/e ɘ ɤ /
/t d k g s x h n l r j ʃ ʒ θ ð ɣ/
this one allows you to speak without moving your lips or lower jaw
on jum djun rjow ju rown ne mow re fìʃi djun djònu skàʃi fa

One of my shelved conlangs, Ketas, is like that:
/t ʈ c k ʡ ʔ s x ʜ h n ɑ e i ə ɑ̃ ẽ ĩ ə̃/


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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 03:38 
mayan
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Nortaneous wrote:
xingoxa wrote:
I suppose it would be theoretically possible to contrast unaspirated, lightly aspirated and heavily aspirated plosives.

Some people say this is what Korean does.


When I asked my friend from Korea to teach me how to say ᄄ he said "hold your breath and say /t/ at the same time" which sounds an awful lot like glottal constriction to me. So I would say it contrasts unaspirated, aspirated, and ejective plosives, at least for the dialect of him and the other Korean guys I've talked to.


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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 07:42 
light
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To me, the sound is obviously too smooth to be an ejective.


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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 16:16 
earth
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I'm not sure what 'too smooth' means, but I recall the three series sounding to me like voiced, unaspirated, and aspirated, although I can't remember which one was which; and there's also the chart here, which says Korean contrasts tenuis, mildly aspirated, and strongly aspirated stops. I've also seen Korean come up in the context of aspirated fricatives, but it'd take some digging to find those papers again.

Of course, stiff voice and faucalized voice have also been claimed for the Korean fortis series, so nobody really knows what's going on with them.


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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 19:25 
mayan
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The Phonology of Northwest Bermudan

The Phonemic Vowel Inventory
Spoiler: show
i u
ʊ̈
e əɵ o
ɛ ʌ
a

ɪ̈ exists in loanwords from other dialects.

Now, here is the Allophonic Inventory. Vowels which are part of one phoneme are colored the same.:
Spoiler: show
i y ɨ ʉ u
ɪ ʏ ɪ̈ ʊ̈
e ø ə ɵ o
ɛ ɜ ɞ ʌ
a

The Phonemic Consonant Inventory
Spoiler: show
p t k kʷ ʔ t͡s t͡ʃ f s ʃ h m n ŋ ʋ l j w


Phonontactics
The Basic Bermudan Syllable structure is (C)V(V)(V)(C). /p/, /f/, and /s/ cannot occur in the coda, and /ŋ/ can only occur in the coda (when behaving as a consonant).
/m n ŋ l/ are syllabic consonants. If they are the nucleus, then they cannot be in any diphthong.

Tone
Bermudan has a two tone system, which contrasts high and low tone.

Stress
Bermudan has very unpredicatable stress patterns. Historically, Bermudan had rigorously initial stress, but due to major English influence, stress now follows English like patterns for many (although not all) words.

Prosody
Bermudan has several important prosodic patterns.
-Words and topics are frequently emphasized. When this occurs, vowels are lengthened and become less centered.
-In interrogative clauses, the final word is said with a rising pitch.

Orthography
Bermudan has two orthographies. The first was designed by missionaries in the 1800s, the second by the Bermuda Language Institute in 1953.

The Missionary Orthography
General Notes: The Missionary Orthography is very phonetic, with the exception of some high vowels, and imitates English spelling rules.
/i y ɪ ʏ e ø ə ɵ ɛ ɜ ɞ a ʌ o u/<ee öö i y ei ö ë ëo e ö er or a u o oo>
Diphtongs are usually not separated, creating ambiguity between /ɛ/+/ɪ/ and /e/. If necessary, a apostrophe can be used. A hiatus written with V-V.
/p t k kʷ ʔ t͡s t͡ʃ f s ʃ h m n ŋ ʋ l j w/<p t k kw q c ch f s sh h m n ng v l j w>
The digraphs <kw ch sh ng> are often written as <'k 'c 's 'g> intervocally and finally

The Institute Orthography
/i ʊ̈ e ə ɵ ɛ a ʌ o u/<i ü e ë ö y a v o u>
ɪ̈ does not exist in this dialect,but is written as i in the dialects that have it.
/p t k kʷ ʔ t͡s t͡ʃ f s ʃ h m n ŋ ʋ l j w/<p t k q ' c ch f s sh h m n ng v l j w>
<ch sh ng> can be shortened to <'c 's 'g>

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 19:38 
mayan
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Oh, and I forgot: Both orthographies represent the low tone with a <b> after the vowel.

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:eng: = [:D] | :fra: = [:S] | :zaf: = [:'(]


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PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012, 19:15 
sinic
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Uvularization.

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:deu: Little more
:epo: Everybody can speak it!
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PostPosted: Sat 05 May 2012, 15:52 
rupestrian
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The phonology of Siberian Dwarvish:

Plosive: /p t k/ <p t c>
Fricative: /h̪͆ s ɬ ʂ h/ <x s ll sh h>
Nasal: /m n ŋ/ <m n g>
Tap: /ɾ/ <r>
Allophonic consonants: [z ʐ l] <z zh l>

Vowels: /i e ə̃ a o/ <i e y a o>
Diphthongs: /e̯a eo̯ ai̯ ao̯ oi̯ o̯e o̯a/ <ea eo ai ao oi oe oa>

Allophony:
Voiceless /s ʂ/ are voiced to [z ʐ] respectively between vowels. This is shown in the spelling.
/ɾ/ is realized as [l] in the syllable coda. This is also shown in the spelling.

Notes:
/h̪͆/ is a voiceless bidental non-sibilant fricative.
/p t k/ are always unaspirated.
/e ə̃ o/ are true mid vowels.
/a/ is a fully central vowel.

Phonotactics:
Syllable structure is CV(C). Morpheme can be from one to three syllables in length. The consonants /s ʂ ɾ/ do not begin a morpheme. /p t k h/ are restricted to the syllable onset.

Stress:
Stress is weak and is on the first syllable of a word.

Thank you for taking the time to view my language's phonology. Please let me know if you see anything odd or unnaturalistic about it.


Last edited by Bachgen_Cymraeg on Sat 05 May 2012, 16:25, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 05 May 2012, 16:14 
greek
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For Maxédri,
/ i ɛ e ɑ a æ ø ɔ o u y/
/b p f v w t d ð θ r ɾ ɹ ɡ k l h χ s ʃ z ʒ j m n ŋ ɲ/

Not sure if doing this right, new to it all.

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PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2012, 17:51 
cuneiform
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Maraxxus wrote:
For Maxédri,
/ i ɛ e ɑ a æ ø ɔ o u y/
/b p f v w t d ð θ r ɾ ɹ ɡ k l h χ s ʃ z ʒ j m n ŋ ɲ/

Not sure if doing this right, new to it all.


So that's something like
Code:
i y           u
  e ø         o
    ɛ          ɔ
      æ
        a     ɑ



m             n               ɲ     ŋ
p b           t d                   k g
f v   θ ð     s z    ʃ ʒ                 χ    h
                r
                ɾ
                ɹ              j     w
                l


I am not sure about having all of /e ɛ æ a/, maybe you should merge two of these.
The combination of /θ ð ɹ/ is quite englishy, but I suppose there's nothing obviously wrong with it.
Also you have three different rhotics, which seem a bit much, but I suppose it could work.

What does the syllable structure look like?

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PostPosted: Wed 09 May 2012, 21:25 
mayan
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p, t, k, kʷ <qu> _V and q _#
b, d, g, gʷ <gu> _V
t͡s [t͡s] / _V[+stress] [s] / other, t͡ʃ [t͡ʃ] / _V[+stress] [ʃ] / other
d͡z [d͡z] / _V[+stress] [z] / other, d͡ʒ [d͡ʒ] / _V[+stress] [ʒ] / other
m, n
ɾ
j, w

The last obstruent of the word is devoiced. While an ending is following, the devoiced consonant can either be voiced or voiceless, depending on the ending.

Vowels
stressed
i, u
e, o
ä
äi, äu

unstressed
i, e -> ɪ
u, o -> ʊ
ä -> ɐ
äi -> ɛ <á>
äu -> ɔ


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PostPosted: Thu 10 May 2012, 16:10 
mayan
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/p b t d k g f v s z h m n ṽ ɾ j w/ <p bh/b’ t d k gh/g’ f w/hv ts/ss/ ds h/s/x/ /mb/mm n m r j v/b/g/l/

/i ɪ e ɛ a ɔ o ʊ u/<ii/ij i/ej/eje ee e/a/ai/aij aa o/ab/ag/av oo u/ub/uu/uub/uug/uv/ob/og/ov/obo/ogo/ovo>

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PostPosted: Thu 10 May 2012, 21:54 
rupestrian
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Doing this for a newer artlang of mine, which is a hypothetical descendant of Classical (not Vulgar) Latin.

Consonants
/m mʲ (b) p pʲ v vʲ f fʲ ʋ n nʲ (d) t tʲ ð ðʲ θ θʲ (ŋ g) ɣ k kʲ s sʲ x xʲ l lʲ r rʲ j/

The consonants /nʲ tʲ ðʲ kʲ sʲ xʲ lʲ rʲ/ are released [ɲ c ʝ ʨ ɕ ç ʎ ʑ], respectively.
There is no phoneme *ɣʲ because it historically merged with /j/.
The phones [b d g] are allophonic realizations of historic word-final *mb *nd *ŋg which have persisted to the present, as well as allophones of intervocalic *mp *nt *ŋk which have also persisted.
/ʋ/ does not occur word-finally. I'm thinking of just merging it with /v/.


Vowels
/ə a ɛ e ɪ i ɔ o ʊ u/ + /ai au/

I haven't yet decided whether to keep the distinction between /e~ɛ/ and /o~ɔ/. It'll likely just end up being allophonic.
The sound /a/ only occurs in stressed syllables, and the other cardinal vowels /e i o/ only rarely.

I haven't delved too deep into the phonotactics, but at the moment I'm thinking (OL/C)V(C), where (O) is a non-palatal obstruent and (L) is a liquid.

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