Random ideas: Morphosyntax

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roninbodhisattva
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Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by roninbodhisattva » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 22:49

Since the random phonology thread I just started blew up right away, I figured this might be a good idea too. I have tons of small ideas for morphosyntactic systems or features all the time, and thought it would be a good to have a place to put them. Feel free to post your own.

Verb system idea
Verbs are inflected for tense/aspect/mode and transitivity, but not person or number. Verbal forms can be broken up into two broad classes: analytic and compositional. Analytic forms involve a copula and a verb with a specific suffix. Compositional forms are simply formed by suffixing a TAM to the stem. The various forms I've come up with are:

Analytic- HABITUAL, PERFECT
Compositional- PRESENT, PRETERIT, FUTURE, IRREALIS

The irrealis form is combined with particles to form other moods. Don't know what they would be yet. The perfective form also has inferential evidential meaning.

The verb stem is composed of a root and transitivity/voice suffix. All roots are morphosyntactically intransitive unless marked with a transitive suffix. Roots can be semantically mono- or bivalent, and there are other suffixes which derive ditransitives.
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by Micamo » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:02

Ugh. Morphology is where I always freeze. Especially the part where I decide which categories to have. I wind up having one really developed category and the others are boring. For example, Acoi's complicated noun class system but very simplistic aspect system. Though this particular example was kindof on purpose: Agyonnar has 12 aspects and I kinda wanted Acoi to be anti-Agyonnar. Though still, I can do better than perfective-imperfective.
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by roninbodhisattva » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:04

Differentiate one those aspects morphologically into subtypes.
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by Micamo » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:05

Alright then. So what can I break up perfective into? Perfect and momentane? Terminative?
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by roninbodhisattva » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:06

Perfective, inchoative, terminative?
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by Micamo » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:08

This got me thinking... is a frequentative aspect a subtype of perfective or imperfective?
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by roninbodhisattva » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:13

I would way imperfective.

You could also do some cool stuff with aktionsart.
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by Micamo » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:15

Hmm... any way of doing a deference system with more than 3 terms aside from a complicated caste-based system?
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by roninbodhisattva » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:21

Humble register, normal register, polite register, pejorative register, something else?
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by Micamo » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:26

Don't see a perjorative register lasting very long.
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by roninbodhisattva » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:26

Turn it into sarcastic. I mean, really, I don't know much about how grammatical systems like that change overtime. I don't know if much work has been done on it. So just do it.
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by Micamo » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:32

My my my, how forceful!
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by roninbodhisattva » Tue 08 Feb 2011, 23:33

I just love the idea of having a specific grammatical form that you use when your talking down to someone, you know?
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by cybrxkhan » Wed 09 Feb 2011, 02:47

roninbodhisattva wrote:Turn it into sarcastic. I mean, really, I don't know much about how grammatical systems like that change overtime. I don't know if much work has been done on it. So just do it.
I love having sarcasm that's grammatical - Wikipedia says there's the admirative/mirative mood.


I'm also thinking of having a batshit insane evidentiality system in my new project, Yuh, with maybe like 10+ possible affixes or something.
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by Ossicone » Wed 09 Feb 2011, 03:56

When I do get back to working on Amjati I plan on adding some nice honorifics, and a pejorative register. It'll go nicely with the caste system. :D
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by Micamo » Wed 09 Feb 2011, 12:29

cybrxkhan wrote:I'm also thinking of having a batshit insane evidentiality system in my new project, Yuh, with maybe like 10+ possible affixes or something.
?

Code: Select all

Evidentiality:

Direct:
	Participation
	Unmirative:
		Reported:
			Primary
			Secondary
			Tertiary
		Quotative:
			Primary
			Secondary
		Sensory:
			Visual
			Auditory
			Other
	Mirative:
		Reported:
			Primary
			Secondary
			Tertiary
		Quotative:
			Primary
			Secondary
		Sensory:
			Visual
			Auditory
			Other
Indirect:
	Inference:
		Potential:
			Direct
			General
			Experience
		Dubitative:
			Direct
			General
			Experience
		Speculative:
			Direct
			General
			Experience
		Hypothetical:
			Direct
			General
			Experience
	Intuition:
		Deep
		Surface
I'm also thinking of putting an induction/abduction distinction in the inferentials. But right now there's 31. (The planned abductive expansion would bring the total to 43, if I go through with it)
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by roninbodhisattva » Wed 09 Feb 2011, 14:45

Micamo wrote:I'm also thinking of putting an induction/abduction distinction in the inferentials. But right now there's 31. (The planned abductive expansion would bring the total to 43, if I go through with it)
Wait...each one of those is grammaticalized??
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by Micamo » Wed 09 Feb 2011, 14:57

Yeah. Items without a colon at the end of them represent concrete affixes, with the above colon'd items representing fused information.

So

Code: Select all

Direct:
   Mirative:
      Sensory:
         Auditory
Is the mirative-auditory evidential. (Which, by the way, is the suffix -eraz.) You'd use it for: Your daughter plays-eraz the piano very well! That is, you just learned how well she plays the piano because you just heard it directly.

(By the way, "unmirative" means that the information perceived was expected. You'd use the unmirative form if this is her fifth recital that you've been to, and you're congratulating her for keeping her skills up. Yeah, Agyonnar packs tons of information into those little suffixes @.@)

As for the inferentials, the "Potential" and "Dubitative" are epistemic modalities: They signify how confident you feel in the inference you've performed. You'd use the dubitative, for example, when the scenario given is your best guess but you aren't too sure about it.

Finally, the intuitive evidentials are for snap judgments without much conscious thought into them. "Deep" and "Surface" are the strength of the feeling.
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by cybrxkhan » Wed 09 Feb 2011, 21:40

@Micamo: Precisely what I'm thinking of... But I suppose using way too many would be unnatural, unless if that's my intent...
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Re: Random ideas: Morphosyntax

Post by Micamo » Wed 09 Feb 2011, 22:05

I have the excuse that Agyonnar isn't a human language. Who knows what your justification may be. Still, you can do better than 10 ;p
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