(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here [2010-2020]

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Xing
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Xing »

There are at least a couple of definitions of the concept of a "vowel".

A vowel can be:

(1) A sound that is produced with an open vowel tract - that is, with no significant blocking or obstruction that prevents the air from passing freely through the mouth.

(2) A sound that is the most sonorous sound in the syllable.

Those sounds that are most typically referred to as "vowel", are vowels in both of the above senses: [y] [ɒ] [ə] [ɨ] etc.

Semivowels - [j] [w] and a few more - are vowels according to definition (1), but not according to definition (2).

Syllabic consonants - [n̩] [r̩] [s̩] etc. - are vowels according to definition (2), but not according to definition (1).

"Pure" (non-syllabic) consonants - [tʰ] [f] [sʷ] [q] etc. - are vowels in neither of the above senses.

See also this nice little chart.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by mich2000 »

Batrachus wrote:How can I normally (no copy-pasting and no Maor etc. keyboards) write special letters, like the macron ones? I tried Alt+number, but it only works up to 256 and first 32 are even not the same as in neither ASCII nor UTF-8.
I think this will solve your problem.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Batrachus »

I solved this by making myself a Greasemonkey replacing script [:)]

EDIT: very buggy and impractical script [:|]
:ces: Native
:slk: Mutually intelligibile with native language
:eng: Almost fluent
:esp: Little
:deu: Little more
:epo: Everybody can speak it!
:con: Speedlang
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ear of the Sphinx »

Batrachus wrote:How can I normally (no copy-pasting and no Maor etc. keyboards) write special letters, like the macron ones? I tried Alt+number, but it only works up to 256 and first 32 are even not the same as in neither ASCII nor UTF-8.
Let Fanaelesz make the Compose Key For Windows stuff.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by hubris_incalculable »

I wonder if it's possible for a general hortative mood marking to split into imperative and a sort of adhortative through merging with Japanese-style honourifics (and their opposite, whatever that may be called)?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Fanael »

Milyamd wrote:
Batrachus wrote:How can I normally (no copy-pasting and no Maor etc. keyboards) write special letters, like the macron ones? I tried Alt+number, but it only works up to 256 and first 32 are even not the same as in neither ASCII nor UTF-8.
Let Fanaelesz make the Compose Key For Windows stuff.
Ain't gonna happen in the foreseeable future, the Windows' keypress-to-character APIs are so fucked up I ain't touching 'em with a ten foot pole.
Perhaps if the PostMessage(WM_{,SYS}KEY{UP,DOWN})+TranslateMessage hack works, but I can't be bothered to test it.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore »

hubris_incalculable wrote:I wonder if it's possible for a general hortative mood marking to split into imperative and a sort of adhortative through merging with Japanese-style honourifics (and their opposite, whatever that may be called)?
1. What exactly do you mean?
2. Some examples of what you mean, (and also perhaps of some near-misses to tell us what you don't mean), would help us undertand the question.
3. Have you looked at http://wals.info/feature/72A, http://wals.info/feature/79B, and http://wals.info/feature/70A, (and perhaps other features near or between them), to see what natlangs do? It might be better to read the chapters than the features, though; http://wals.info/chapter/72 and http://wals.info/chapter/70, maybe also http://wals.info/chapter/79. Maybe you'd like to read all of chapters 70 through 78.

Micamo wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:Nuxalk is probably as close as you can get and Idon't remember the name of engelang/conlang that consisited only of vowels. It was labeled "crazy" by its inventor(s).
Actually, in theory anyway, the analysis of a lang without phonemic vowels doesn't depend on how many clusters the language allows or their frequency. What matters is contrast: Are there minimal pairs that differ only the presence or the quality of a vowel? If there aren't, then a case can be made that the language lacks phonemic vowels underlyingly, regardless of which vowels in which positions appear phonetically.
@Micamo, your answer convinces me, but I don't think it's to Creyeditor's point.
You talked about how a 'lang might have no phonemic vowels.
Creyeditor was talking about a 'lang that had only phonemic vowels.
Edit: If I'd read all the way through the most recent 20 posts on this thread I could have found out it started with Brawner_Williams's question which mentioned both a 'lang without and a 'lang with only vowels; and that before Creyeditor's response you'd already talked about 'langs with only vowels. Sorry. [:$]
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao »

hubris_incalculable wrote:I wonder if it's possible for a general hortative mood marking to split into imperative and a sort of adhortative through merging with Japanese-style honourifics (and their opposite, whatever that may be called)?
:grc: and :lat: used the Subjunctive Mood for Hortatory purposes.
It survives in :spa: today in those sorts of commands that are more like polite invitations.

E.g. Que vaya Ud. [SBJV] "You should go"
vs
Vete [IMPTV] "Scram!" "Get out!"

Because of the more invitational nature of the Subjunctive, it would lend itself to more diplomatic/honorific/humble spheres of communication.

I could see an interweaving of hortatory (subjunctives) and honorifics in a :con:.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by hubris_incalculable »

eldin raigmore wrote:
hubris_incalculable wrote:I wonder if it's possible for a general hortative mood marking to split into imperative and a sort of adhortative through merging with Japanese-style honourifics (and their opposite, whatever that may be called)?
1. What exactly do you mean?
Does this diagram help?

Image
Lambuzhao wrote:I could see an interweaving of hortatory (subjunctives) and honorifics in a :con:.
That was the idea.
Last edited by hubris_incalculable on 04 Mar 2013 04:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Trailsend »

hubris_incalculable wrote:I wonder if it's possible for a general hortative mood marking to split into imperative and a sort of adhortative through merging with Japanese-style honourifics (and their opposite, whatever that may be called)?
I refer you to the precative mood.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by hubris_incalculable »

Trailsend wrote:
hubris_incalculable wrote:I wonder if it's possible for a general hortative mood marking to split into imperative and a sort of adhortative through merging with Japanese-style honourifics (and their opposite, whatever that may be called)?
I refer you to the precative mood.
That works, I guess.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Omzinesý »

hubris_incalculable wrote:Image
To me that seems quite reasonable. But if there is no formal difference between hortative and +honorafic, no different category has to be postulated. It's just honorafic in an imperative clause.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore »

hubris_incalculable wrote:
eldin raigmore wrote:1. What exactly do you mean?
Does this diagram help?
http://img.ie/z5r0r.png
Yes it does! Quite a bit. Thanks. [:)]
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by MrKrov »

I got me a question about auxiliaries. If I use a verbal auxiliary for notions like "reflexive voice", "reciprocal voice" or "inchoativity" and that auxiliary comes from ordinary intransitive-transitive pairs, should I always use the transitive one or match transitivity (when applicable)?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Micamo »

MrKrov wrote:I got me a question about auxiliaries. If I use a verbal auxiliary for notions like "reflexive voice", "reciprocal voice" or "inchoativity" and that auxiliary comes from ordinary intransitive-transitive pairs, should I always use the transitive one or match transitivity (when applicable)?
That depends: Are the sources still used as regular verbs in the language? If so, use only the transitive bases as auxiliaries. If they only have auxiliary function, then match the transitivity of the main verb.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by MrKrov »

It is the first and ok, gracias.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Fanael »

How normal is it for [?] to be an allophone of /:/?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Omzinesý »

Fanael wrote:How normal is it for [?] to be an allophone of /:/?
What is /:/? Do you mean a long sound?

I think I wouldn't recognize if somebody once said [la?ki] instead of [lak:i] in Finnish. (Supposing ? is the glottal stop)
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Fanael »

Omzinesý wrote:What is /:/? Do you mean a long sound?
Yes.
Omzinesý wrote:Supposing ? is the glottal stop
Yes.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao »

Sorry for the lateness in responding.

1) http://img.ie/z5r0r.png = [+1]

2) Eagerly awaiting to see how it plays out in your :con:
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