(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

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Lambuzhao
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 25 Jul 2018, 16:09

eldin raigmore wrote:
Tue 24 Jul 2018, 02:11
It is beginning to seem to me, that the term “root”, when discussing the diachronic processes of language evolution, and the genetic relatedness of languages in the same family, means something different, from the term “root”, when discussing the synchronic processes of inflection and morphological derivation, and suchlike morphological processes.

So, or not so?
Well, insofar as :lat: and :grc: are concerned, the inflectional 'root' found in the genitive singular of a noun, or in one of the principal parts of a verb, is usually referred to in textbooks and other didactic materials as the stem.

But, certainly, at least as for as :lat: and :grc: verbs go, the principal parts can each have, as the main formant of their respective stems, different grades of a former Proto-Italic or PIE roots.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 25 Jul 2018, 16:21

BTW,

Looks like Lithuanian has three principal parts
http://www.lituanus.org/1987/87_1_04.htm

I was looking for info on Sanskrit, but stumbled upon this article about Static and Dynamic Principal Parts in both Indo-European languages, but also considering non IE langs as well:

ftp://ftp.cs.engr.uky.edu/cs/techreports/459-06.pdf

[:)]
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » Wed 25 Jul 2018, 19:52

Thanks, @Lambuzhao!

I wonder, also, whether the term “derivation” means something different, when speaking morphologically and synchronically, than when speaking diachronically.

—————

Do you think a new thread, on such topics as suppletion, roots, derivation, paradigms, and principal parts, or some of those, might be good to start?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien » Wed 25 Jul 2018, 20:49

I would be interested in a separate thread on that, since figuring all this stuff out has been a major part of my PIE-inspired conlang. [:)]
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by felipesnark » Wed 25 Jul 2018, 22:40

eldin raigmore wrote:
Wed 25 Jul 2018, 19:52
Do you think a new thread, on such topics as suppletion, roots, derivation, paradigms, and principal parts, or some of those, might be good to start?
[+1]

For my latest project, "Denkurian", I am working on a few verbal periphrases to express some aspects. I want the progressive to be expressed by to be + [PREP] + [INF].

What are some prepositions that would make sense? I was thinking those that mean something like "at" or "in" or perhaps "to". Ideas?

I am also thinking of the following:
prospective aspect: to go + 'to' + [INF]
recent perfect (‘have just’): to come + 'from' + [INF]
Visit my website for my blogs and information on my conlangs including Shonkasika: http://felipesnark.weebly.com/ It's a work in progress!
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 03:24

felipesnark wrote:
Wed 25 Jul 2018, 22:40
eldin raigmore wrote:
Wed 25 Jul 2018, 19:52
Do you think a new thread, on such topics as suppletion, roots, derivation, paradigms, and principal parts, or some of those, might be good to start?
[+1]

For my latest project, "Denkurian", I am working on a few verbal periphrases to express some aspects. I want the progressive to be expressed by to be + [PREP] + [INF].

What are some prepositions that would make sense? I was thinking those that mean something like "at" or "in" or perhaps "to". Ideas?

I am also thinking of the following:
prospective aspect: to go + 'to' + [INF]
recent perfect (‘have just’): to come + 'from' + [INF]
“For” and “after” might be good, for the progressive or prospective or intended future.

Go for INF
Be after INF
Go for GERUND (or ACTIVE PARTICIPLE)
Be after GERUND (or ACTIVE PARTICIPLE)

Or some such thing.

What do you think?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 03:24

KaiTheHomoSapien wrote:
Wed 25 Jul 2018, 20:49
I would be interested in a separate thread on that, since figuring all this stuff out has been a major part of my PIE-inspired conlang. [:)]
If anyone starts it I will follow it.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by felipesnark » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 05:11

eldin raigmore wrote:
Thu 26 Jul 2018, 03:24
felipesnark wrote:
Wed 25 Jul 2018, 22:40
eldin raigmore wrote:
Wed 25 Jul 2018, 19:52
Do you think a new thread, on such topics as suppletion, roots, derivation, paradigms, and principal parts, or some of those, might be good to start?
[+1]

For my latest project, "Denkurian", I am working on a few verbal periphrases to express some aspects. I want the progressive to be expressed by to be + [PREP] + [INF].

What are some prepositions that would make sense? I was thinking those that mean something like "at" or "in" or perhaps "to". Ideas?

I am also thinking of the following:
prospective aspect: to go + 'to' + [INF]
recent perfect (‘have just’): to come + 'from' + [INF]
“For” and “after” might be good, for the progressive or prospective or intended future.

Go for INF
Be after INF
Go for GERUND (or ACTIVE PARTICIPLE)
Be after GERUND (or ACTIVE PARTICIPLE)

Or some such thing.

What do you think?
I like "go for", zolon zag, for prospective. I might use "be in" balon sko, for progressive; I had been using "be at/to", balon dan. I think I will use the infinitive for the main verb in each of these periphrases.
Visit my website for my blogs and information on my conlangs including Shonkasika: http://felipesnark.weebly.com/ It's a work in progress!
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Clio » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 17:16

For those interested: I created a separate thread on Indo-European morphology here.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Salmoneus » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 18:16

felipesnark wrote:
Wed 25 Jul 2018, 22:40
eldin raigmore wrote:
Wed 25 Jul 2018, 19:52
Do you think a new thread, on such topics as suppletion, roots, derivation, paradigms, and principal parts, or some of those, might be good to start?
[+1]

For my latest project, "Denkurian", I am working on a few verbal periphrases to express some aspects. I want the progressive to be expressed by to be + [PREP] + [INF].

What are some prepositions that would make sense? I was thinking those that mean something like "at" or "in" or perhaps "to". Ideas?

I am also thinking of the following:
prospective aspect: to go + 'to' + [INF]
recent perfect (‘have just’): to come + 'from' + [INF]
You might want to look into Irish in this regard.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by ErickTyndale » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 23:08

Hello, I'm currently brainstorming on the grammar of a new conlang I'm working on. This conlang is Nom-Acc with a marker on the subject, but I was thinking the following:
What if the subject marker would also tell you the tense? F.e. "He[1SG, +PAST] walk". My question is: would this make sense, what would the pros and cons be (I imagine it would greatly reduce verb conjugations) and are there any languages that do this?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 23:12

ErickTyndale wrote:
Thu 26 Jul 2018, 23:08
Hello, I'm currently brainstorming on the grammar of a new conlang I'm working on. This conlang is Nom-Acc with a marker on the subject, but I was thinking the following:
What if the subject marker would also tell you the tense? F.e. "He[1SG, +PAST] walk". My question is: would this make sense, what would the pros and cons be (I imagine it would grestly reduce verb conjugations) and are there any languages that do this?
If the subject is "he", why would it be marked as first person singular?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Pabappa » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 23:40

ErickTyndale wrote:
Thu 26 Jul 2018, 23:08
Hello, I'm currently brainstorming on the grammar of a new conlang I'm working on. This conlang is Nom-Acc with a marker on the subject, but I was thinking the following:
What if the subject marker would also tell you the tense? F.e. "He[1SG, +PAST] walk". My question is: would this make sense, what would the pros and cons be (I imagine it would greatly reduce verb conjugations) and are there any languages that do this?
English basically has that .... for future tense only though, and it's seen as a mood, not a tense.

I'll walk home by myself.
The tense is marked on the subject, not the verb, so definitely a system like this can work. But I don't know if any langs use that setup exclusively.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by felipesnark » Thu 26 Jul 2018, 23:41

ErickTyndale wrote:
Thu 26 Jul 2018, 23:08
Hello, I'm currently brainstorming on the grammar of a new conlang I'm working on. This conlang is Nom-Acc with a marker on the subject, but I was thinking the following:
What if the subject marker would also tell you the tense? F.e. "He[1SG, +PAST] walk". My question is: would this make sense, what would the pros and cons be (I imagine it would greatly reduce verb conjugations) and are there any languages that do this?
"He's walked, He'll walk, He'd walk" ?

Not exactly the same, but...
Visit my website for my blogs and information on my conlangs including Shonkasika: http://felipesnark.weebly.com/ It's a work in progress!
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Khemehekis » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 02:47

I would think that the principal parts of a noun in Latin would be the two parts like agricola, agricolae, or princeps, principis, that are given in Latin books.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by clawgrip » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 05:37

ErickTyndale wrote:
Thu 26 Jul 2018, 23:08
Hello, I'm currently brainstorming on the grammar of a new conlang I'm working on. This conlang is Nom-Acc with a marker on the subject, but I was thinking the following:
What if the subject marker would also tell you the tense? F.e. "He[1SG, +PAST] walk". My question is: would this make sense, what would the pros and cons be (I imagine it would greatly reduce verb conjugations) and are there any languages that do this?
I know some oceanic languages like Marshallese mark tense on the pronoun. The wikipedia page for Nominal TAM lists several languages that have it, as well as explaining why English is not an example of this (because they are clitics).
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Creyeditor » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 10:55

Hausa also does it. And there must be good resources on it somewhere on the internet.

ErickTyndale wrote:
Thu 26 Jul 2018, 23:08
"He[1SG, +PAST] walk"
Did you mean "He[3SG, +PAST]"?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by ErickTyndale » Fri 27 Jul 2018, 16:47

Creyeditor wrote:
Fri 27 Jul 2018, 10:55
ErickTyndale wrote:
Thu 26 Jul 2018, 23:08
"He[1SG, +PAST] walk"
Did you mean "He[3SG, +PAST]"?
Yes, my bad. Thanks [:P]
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by yangfiretiger121 » Sun 29 Jul 2018, 06:35

Do the following results for the diphthongs seem reasonable, noting that the palatal onglide palatalizes the preceding consonant and the labiodental onglide is only present in coda?

ai > ɑi > ɑː > ɑ
au > ɑʉ > ɑ(ː)ᶹ > ɑⱽ > ɑ
ei > ᴇi > ᴇː > ᴇ
eu > ᴇʉ > ᴇ.ʉ (alternatively, eu > ᴇʉ > ᴇ(ː)ᶹ > ᴇⱽ > ᴇ)
ia > iɑ > ʲɑ > ᶨɑ
ie > iᴇ > ʲᴇ > ᶨᴇ
io > iⱺ > ʲⱺ > ᶨⱺ
iu > iʉ > ʲʉ > ᶨʉ
oi > ⱺi > ⱺː > ⱺ
ou > ⱺʉ > ⱺ(ː)ᶹ > ⱺⱽ > ⱺ
ua > ʉɑ > ᶹɑ(ː) > ⱽɑ
ue > ʉᴇ > ᶹᴇ(ː) > ⱽᴇ
ui > ʉi > ᶹi(ː) > ⱽi
uo > ʉⱺ > ᶹⱺ(ː) > ⱽⱺ
Ddoean's document
Paleofonts (for Linear-B characters)
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by felipesnark » Thu 02 Aug 2018, 04:23

For a naturalistic conlang, is it unrealistic to have separate personal endings on verbs for active, middle, and passive voice?

Here is what I have for Denkurian at the moment:
Spoiler:
Image
My idea is that the middle voice evolved from an old reflexive pronoun.
Visit my website for my blogs and information on my conlangs including Shonkasika: http://felipesnark.weebly.com/ It's a work in progress!
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