Thrice Xandvii is skilled and there's no way he could deny it.bbbourq wrote:This is some impressive work. I like it!Thrice Xandvii wrote:Some folks wanted to see the cards I had made in another thread... so I worked on an entire new rank for one of them and then compiled an image showing a good deal of them so that folks can see what they look like …
What did you accomplish today? [2011–2019]
Re: What did you accomplish today?
Languages of Rodentèrra: Buonavallese, Saselvan Argemontese; Wīlandisċ Taulkeisch; More on the road.
Conlang embryo of TELES: Proto-Avesto-Umbric ~> Proto-Umbric
New blog: http://argentiusbonavalensis.tumblr.com
Conlang embryo of TELES: Proto-Avesto-Umbric ~> Proto-Umbric
New blog: http://argentiusbonavalensis.tumblr.com
- Thrice Xandvii
- runic
- Posts: 2698
- Joined: 25 Nov 2012 10:13
- Location: Carnassus
Re: What did you accomplish today?
Awwww, thanks!
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- mongolian
- Posts: 3883
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
- Location: California über alles
Re: What did you accomplish today?
This is exactly what I had suspected!Thrice Xandvii wrote:(likely due to its location).
I really don't see much in common with the singulative. To put it this way: if I called my excerptal a "trial", all English-speaking linguists would understand what a trial was, but it would be very inaccurate in describing what the excerptal does.And my only thought is that you can call it whatever you want, really. I was just saying the term suggested might be quicker for others to grok.
All the complexity that comes from the exceptions, special cases and other rules makes Kankonian all the more like a real language. No natlang is as simple as Toki Pona, after all, except perhaps for some pidgins or ritual languages.*shrug* I'm really not at all certain how you determine if a construction with 13,000 exceptions and specific cases is or isn't some term you invented anyway.
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 86,336 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 86,336 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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- mongolian
- Posts: 3883
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
- Location: California über alles
Re: What did you accomplish today?
Thank you for taking the time to analyze the excerptal in Kankonian! I'll have to look more into the "Mugatu" vs. "Mugagabe" distinction in Basque. I don't know much about this language isolate, but it could be an inspiration for things I could do with the excerptal!Iyionaku wrote:I didn't answer because I didn't feel qualified enough, but as nobody else did and you specifically asked again, I will try my best.
From the examples you provided, it appears that the unmarked form of a noun appears only when it doesn't matter if a noun appears in singular or plural, i.e. when the "thing" is emphasized, not the exact amount of it or a specific entity of it. It also appears if it is clear from context which particular entity is referred to, as for example when used in a genitive clause. As there is a dedicated suffix for plurals, it would be wrong to say that nouns are plurali tantum by default. Your excerptial is used, however, when referring to a single unit of something that has not been specified before. You mentioned body parts, but it's not clear from your examples if there is any specific connection to it; more, it seems that the excerptial is also used if there is more than one possible entity. "your shoulder" uses the excerptial because there are two possible entities, whereas "my dog" does not because there is only one. That also concurs with the "daughters" example.
Altogether, this reminds me closest of the "Mugatu" vs. "Mugagabe" distinction in Basque - the sources I have unfortunately don't call it any differently than that. I'd propose that your excerptial is more along the line of a demonstrative/definite suffix. As it can be used with more than one unit, I wouldn't consider it be a "singulative". In conclusion, I would say as its exact usage is not really comparable to anything else it's valid for you to use your own terminology.
And I've also thought of another grammar rule about the excerptal that I need to specidy. I hear all of you groaning now. I've added this to my grammar:
Although a "one of" excerptal becomes "wit", "deyit" or "met", an excerptal such as "bam beinet" (two of the boys) or "em wit" (three of us) does not excerptalize when it is referred back to with a pronoun. Rather, a plural such as "mem" (for "bam beinet") or "wir" (for "em wit") would be used:
Goka* bam go*ishet g*ementizen, mem azhuweishizen im spekatem ghoshi we.
although two lamp-EXCPT break-PSV-PST 3p glue-PSV-PST so_as_to put_back_together quick ADV
Although two of the lamps were broken, they were glued back together quickly.
One more wrinkle in the grammar!
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 86,336 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 86,336 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
- kiwikami
- roman
- Posts: 1203
- Joined: 26 May 2012 17:24
- Location: Oh, I don't know, I'm probably around here somewhere.
Re: What did you accomplish today?
"Loom-form" handwritten HyPry is a thing now - it's a little more intuitive to write than the ceremonial sun-form system as it reflects the actual word order in most cases, has a few useful abbreviations (also differing from sun-form in a handful of roots and the more common noun class markers), and will eventually evolve into a cursive thread-form when I get around to figuring out how that works. It's compared (on the left) with the sun-form (on the right) below. There's a typo in the sun-form first sentence that suggests the storm has volition, and there's far too much whitespace in the sun-form second sentence to be formally acceptable. Oops.
Dräxw tlwum fih da, rën zwërz a.
c24-storm attack in.excess=arg1 CLS24 PST c4-sun=CLS4 IND
It was storming all day yesterday.
(There is a peculiar sort of zen in sitting at a desk, alone, conlanging, during a thunderstorm. I asked nature for assistance. "Storm, from what should I derive the particle to express excessive quantity?" "*phone beeps loudly as flash flood warning is issued*" "Ah, yes, that'll work.")
Also just realized the arg1 marker, which in an active voice verb generally indicates an instrument or non-agent participant, uses a glyph identical to that of (the noun root "ball". Hm.)
Thefi wëze ti zum, therashar, a the.
c13-floodwater become PFV hearsay CLS13-PL=c13-river-PL IND CLS13
Apparently some rivers flooded.
Additionally, I am... somewhat half-jokingly beginning to wonder if it would be technically incorrect to say that most words in HyPry are actually clitics. As little sense as that makes, every one, with few exceptions, has an alternate form (or two, or six) depending on the phonology of the word directly preceding it; in these cases, initial consonants tend to behave as word-medial, as if the two words are now phonologically one unit. Even the small handful of prefixes may behave as if attached to the previous word, and will drag whatever they're prefixed to along with them. Therashar above is "rivers, which are doing something to some other aforementioned flowing liquid" [in context, they are joining the set of flooded bodies of water] and is underlyingly the-ra the-aha-ra, where that second the glues itself to the preceding word and pulls the noun aha river and the second plural affix, triggering word-medial-esque lenition and vowel elision. Even the most salient of content words may be reduced to a suffixed consonant cluster if the phonological environment of the previous word is correct - perhaps it's not cliticization so much as it is extreme phonological dependence?
Dräxw tlwum fih da, rën zwërz a.
c24-storm attack in.excess=arg1 CLS24 PST c4-sun=CLS4 IND
It was storming all day yesterday.
(There is a peculiar sort of zen in sitting at a desk, alone, conlanging, during a thunderstorm. I asked nature for assistance. "Storm, from what should I derive the particle to express excessive quantity?" "*phone beeps loudly as flash flood warning is issued*" "Ah, yes, that'll work.")
Also just realized the arg1 marker, which in an active voice verb generally indicates an instrument or non-agent participant, uses a glyph identical to that of (the noun root "ball". Hm.)
Thefi wëze ti zum, therashar, a the.
c13-floodwater become PFV hearsay CLS13-PL=c13-river-PL IND CLS13
Apparently some rivers flooded.
Additionally, I am... somewhat half-jokingly beginning to wonder if it would be technically incorrect to say that most words in HyPry are actually clitics. As little sense as that makes, every one, with few exceptions, has an alternate form (or two, or six) depending on the phonology of the word directly preceding it; in these cases, initial consonants tend to behave as word-medial, as if the two words are now phonologically one unit. Even the small handful of prefixes may behave as if attached to the previous word, and will drag whatever they're prefixed to along with them. Therashar above is "rivers, which are doing something to some other aforementioned flowing liquid" [in context, they are joining the set of flooded bodies of water] and is underlyingly the-ra the-aha-ra, where that second the glues itself to the preceding word and pulls the noun aha river and the second plural affix, triggering word-medial-esque lenition and vowel elision. Even the most salient of content words may be reduced to a suffixed consonant cluster if the phonological environment of the previous word is correct - perhaps it's not cliticization so much as it is extreme phonological dependence?
Last edited by kiwikami on 16 Oct 2017 20:38, edited 2 times in total.
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.
| | ASL | | |
- Thrice Xandvii
- runic
- Posts: 2698
- Joined: 25 Nov 2012 10:13
- Location: Carnassus
Re: What did you accomplish today?
Ok.... I really need to know how those squiggles encode anything, because I know there is method to the madness but I can't even pretend to figure it out.
Re: What did you accomplish today?
Made some progress with defining the coastline of one of my conworld's continents:
Green - 0m (sea level)
Beige - 200m
Sand-Brown - 500m
Orange-Brown - 1000m
Brown - 2000m
Purple - 4000m+
Green - 0m (sea level)
Beige - 200m
Sand-Brown - 500m
Orange-Brown - 1000m
Brown - 2000m
Purple - 4000m+
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5091
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: What did you accomplish today?
I would actually call it phrasal (or even utterance level) phonology. Languages often have phonological processes applying across word boundaries. And yes, this is more than intonation and some minimal changes in vowel qualitykiwikami wrote:Additionally, I am... somewhat half-jokingly beginning to wonder if it would be technically incorrect to say that most words in HyPry are actually clitics. As little sense as that makes, every one, with few exceptions, has an alternate form (or two, or six) depending on the phonology of the word directly preceding it; in these cases, initial consonants tend to behave as word-medial, as if the two words are now phonologically one unit. Even the small handful of prefixes may behave as if attached to the previous word, and will drag whatever they're prefixed to along with them. Therashar above is "rivers, which are doing something to some other aforementioned flowing liquid" [in context, they are joining the set of flooded bodies of water] and is underlyingly the-ra the-aha-ra, where that second the glues itself to the preceding word and pulls the noun aha river and the second plural affix, triggering word-medial-esque lenition and vowel elision. Even the most salient of content words may be reduced to a suffixed consonant cluster if the phonological environment of the previous word is correct - perhaps it's not cliticization so much as it is extreme phonological dependence?
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
- gestaltist
- mayan
- Posts: 1617
- Joined: 11 Feb 2015 11:23
Re: What did you accomplish today?
Looks nice. One criticism is that the purple kinda looks like water. Maybe you could change it to black or something?Ahzoh wrote:Made some progress with defining the coastline of one of my conworld's continents:
Green - 0m (sea level)
Beige - 200m
Sand-Brown - 500m
Orange-Brown - 1000m
Brown - 2000m
Purple - 4000m+
Re: What did you accomplish today?
An attempt at a conscript for Lek-Tsaro. This is inspired by a childhood cypher of mine, where each pair of glyphs were fused together (e. g. E was a crescent with 2 diagonal strokes, so combining another glyph with E would add the characteristic diagonal strokes to it).
Consonants only, since vowels will be represented by diacritics. This means a total of 288 diacritics (11 vowels plus 1 for no vowel, for both the vowel between the two consonants and the one after the second, and accounting for reverse glyph order).
If it's not clear, the w+ combination involves superimposing a glyph onto a copy of itself rotated 180 degrees.
Consonants only, since vowels will be represented by diacritics. This means a total of 288 diacritics (11 vowels plus 1 for no vowel, for both the vowel between the two consonants and the one after the second, and accounting for reverse glyph order).
If it's not clear, the w+ combination involves superimposing a glyph onto a copy of itself rotated 180 degrees.
The creator of ŋarâþ crîþ v9.
Re: What did you accomplish today?
These are all colours I've used based on this map:gestaltist wrote:Looks nice. One criticism is that the purple kinda looks like water. Maybe you could change it to black or something?Ahzoh wrote:Made some progress with defining the coastline of one of my conworld's continents:
Green - 0m (sea level)
Beige - 200m
Sand-Brown - 500m
Orange-Brown - 1000m
Brown - 2000m
Purple - 4000m+
https://www.mapsofworld.com/physical-ma ... -world.jpg
- kiwikami
- roman
- Posts: 1203
- Joined: 26 May 2012 17:24
- Location: Oh, I don't know, I'm probably around here somewhere.
Re: What did you accomplish today?
That makes good sense! I suppose I didn't think of it as phrasal simply because, as you implied, people tend to think "intonation" when thinking about that. Thanks!Creyeditor wrote:I would actually call it phrasal (or even utterance level) phonology. Languages often have phonological processes applying across word boundaries. And yes, this is more than intonation and some minimal changes in vowel quality
I think saying there's a method may be giving me too much credit, but I'll break down one of the examples, Dräxw tlwum fih da, rën zwërz a. (Below a spoiler cut because it's a big image-heavy.)Thrice Xandvii wrote:Ok.... I really need to know how those squiggles encode anything, because I know there is method to the madness but I can't even pretend to figure it out.
Spoiler:
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.
| | ASL | | |
- eldin raigmore
- korean
- Posts: 6352
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
- Location: SouthEast Michigan
Re: What did you accomplish today?
Wow!kiwikami wrote:
....
I think saying there's a method may be giving me too much credit, but I'll break down one of the examples, Dräxw tlwum fih da, rën zwërz a. (Below a spoiler cut because it's a big image-heavy.)
[ spoiler ] Sun-form script starts with the verb. Here's the root for attack, a very simple one; the notation I use describes this as "extended full bar 11,1 ; extended half bar 5,7":
[ img ] https://image.ibb.co/cOULQm/HP_attack.png [ /img ]
.....
final form of the sentence above is different from the one given earlier because certain rotations of glyphs were just better-looking on a computer than when hand-drawn, but the two are functionally identical (save for the typos). [ /spoiler ]
Loom-form script differs in that you start with the first argument, rather than the verb (which better aligns with actual word order while speaking), and restrictions on startpoints and endpoints are significantly more lax, with some glyphs gaining extra elements to ease distinction from other glyphs that in sun-form would differ only in where on the metaphorical clockface each radical lies. Though
....
4 if someone has time-traveled and severely broken the space-time continuum), while vortex is usually in 4, 13, or... I think 12 is the other one. I don't have my notes handy at the moment, and cannot check.
My minicity is http://gonabebig1day.myminicity.com/xml
Re: What did you accomplish today?
I finished the heightmap of one of my continents. Although it seems to have a lot more terrain above 200m but under 500m than the Earth.
I'm thinking one of my languages will undergo a change where its singular gender endings (feminine -ā and masculine -ē) are completely dropped leaving pharyngealization/velarization and palatalization of word-final consonants, respectively, as a trace.
I was rather inspired by the Mongolian name for Gobi being Gowĭ which is pronounced [ɢɔwʲ].
lātă [laːtˤ] horse < lātā
māpĭ [maːpʲ] bear < māpē
But
lātan [laːtan] horses
māpel [maːpel] bears
I'm thinking one of my languages will undergo a change where its singular gender endings (feminine -ā and masculine -ē) are completely dropped leaving pharyngealization/velarization and palatalization of word-final consonants, respectively, as a trace.
I was rather inspired by the Mongolian name for Gobi being Gowĭ which is pronounced [ɢɔwʲ].
lātă [laːtˤ] horse < lātā
māpĭ [maːpʲ] bear < māpē
But
lātan [laːtan] horses
māpel [maːpel] bears
Last edited by Ahzoh on 17 Oct 2017 20:00, edited 2 times in total.
Re: What did you accomplish today?
it is an amazing pastime to draw glyphs according to what surrounds you ...kiwikami wrote:There is a peculiar sort of zen in sitting at a desk, alone, conlanging, during a thunderstorm.
As soon as I have a timeout somewhere I look for a piece of paper where to draw signs ...
gallifreyan seems a good ways of it...
- Frislander
- mayan
- Posts: 2088
- Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
- Location: The North
Re: What did you accomplish today?
So on my conlang sideblog I've done a post or two regarding the conworlding aspects of Frislandian, this being the first time I've ever put anything about it in its current form on the web. There's next to no actual conlang information but it's a start.
(Also @Thrice Xavandii the second post uses the flag you made, just to say thanks once again for it).
(Also @Thrice Xavandii the second post uses the flag you made, just to say thanks once again for it).
- Thrice Xandvii
- runic
- Posts: 2698
- Joined: 25 Nov 2012 10:13
- Location: Carnassus
Re: What did you accomplish today?
Indeed... and it's still a bad choice of color on that map, IMO.Ahzoh wrote:These are all colours I've used based on this map:gestaltist wrote:Looks nice. One criticism is that the purple kinda looks like water. Maybe you could change it to black or something?Ahzoh wrote:Made some progress with defining the coastline of one of my conworld's continents:
Green - 0m (sea level)
Beige - 200m
Sand-Brown - 500m
Orange-Brown - 1000m
Brown - 2000m
Purple - 4000m+
https://www.mapsofworld.com/physical-ma ... -world.jpg
As such:
I feel like a brownish red is a good choice as it simply moves to a darker and darker shade as the elevation increases.
No problem, my dude. :)Frislander wrote:(Also @Thrice Xavandii the second post uses the flag you made, just to say thanks once again for it).
Re: What did you accomplish today?
You're right. That is a better colour choice.I feel like a brownish red is a good choice as it simply moves to a darker and darker shade as the elevation increases.
I spent all day writing this article on ConWorkShop:
https://conworkshop.info/view_article.p ... e467ab876e
It give details for each language in its own separate section as well providing the diachronics that lead to each language. I don't know what I was trying to achieve trying to blend the presentation style of Index Diachronica with CBB/ZBB-style language pages (with the phonology, grammar, syntax, etc.).
Last edited by Ahzoh on 18 Oct 2017 09:19, edited 2 times in total.
- Thrice Xandvii
- runic
- Posts: 2698
- Joined: 25 Nov 2012 10:13
- Location: Carnassus
Re: What did you accomplish today?
It also gives room to use a deeper redder color for an even higher elevation should you so desire/need one, whereas the other shade is out of nowhere and leaves you with no logical next step, at least, not one that would visually make sense.
Re: What did you accomplish today?
*sigh* Though my map still looks topgraphically bare compared to that map of the Earth I reference. It seems that most of the Earth is either at sea level or above 500m.