The future of actual languages.

[Lambuzhao]

David Crystal doesn't say much new to the thread, but he says it well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kvs8SxN8mc

I especially felt resonance with his point, toward the end, of how, rather than variants of English developing in isolation (near impossible today), that an anglicana franca will kind of be an "implosion" and amalgam of various variants spoken around the world. Incidentally, he addresses the very first question about disappearance of the perfect in contemporary "Englishes".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6_NdZDkcaY

There are quite a few more links to Crystal's lectures on Youtube.

Was your comment about the implosion of English dialects referring to the videolink above it or below it b/c I don't know which vid you're referring to.

The end of the first link.

[Xonen]

5000 years: Likely more than 500

Possible, I suppose - but under five hundred wouldn't be terribly surprising, either. The time frame is (probably) similar to the difference between Proto-Uralic and its modern descendants, and the number of roots that can be even reconstructed is much less than that - and let's remember that no single daughter language has retained every reconstructable root. Of course, most daughter languages probably also contain roots that were already present in PU but have not or cannot be reconstructed... But still, 500 sounds like quite a lot.

[threecat]

Are the past perfect and the past progressive dissappearing in American English?

[taylorS]

What kind of compounds did you make? Are redundant terms like 'hound dog' more likely to be formed than others?

One example is that in Future English "four" and "power" are pronounced the same, so "power" got compounded with "strength" to form "strength-power"

[Thrice Xandvii]

Ah, so you are going the Chinese route of creating compounds of two similar parts to make a word that is no longer as homophonous as it once was.

Cool.

[Thrice Xandvii]

If I see it in print, or I have to write it, I will use the correct forms.
If it's spoken among family or friends, it all goes out the window.

I usually go out of my way to say things in the correct form, actually. That way I have more license to correct other peoples' grammar... However, one thing I do do, is use a boatload of contractions! I don't know if that's just me, or my entire region of the country (grew up in lakeshore WI, complete with "soda" and "bubbler").

I say things like: "I'dn't've done that." Do you suppose it's possible (even probable) for such things to sneak into the language in the future as actual new grammatical forms of verbs? Say, something like: <I dintve>/aɪ̯|dn̩t.əv/? Where <dintve> is something like "to_do.NEG.PERF"?

[taylorS]

Ah, so you are going the Chinese route of creating compounds of two similar parts to make a word that is no longer as homophonous as it once was.

Cool.

Yep!

[HinGambleGoth]

How many words from English would survive in a descendant in 1000 years? 5000 years? 10000 years?

It all depends on history. You cant really predict invasions and cultural influences, English owes a lot of its vocabulary to French and the classical languages, something that a con-langing Saxon 900 ad wouldn't be able to figure out.

Nobody knows what the future holds, sure, some would say Chinese words, but they aren't as easily loaned as words from romance, due to the differences between the languages, interesting to see how English would act under Chinese influence though, makes me think of firefly.

Ah, so you are going the Chinese route of creating compounds of two similar parts to make a word that is no longer as homophonous as it once was Cool.

I made a joke about that Swedish could, through further losses of morphology and assimilations turn into something Chinese like, a mono-syllabic uninflected tonal language, sure I laughed a bit, but is it really that farfetched? Swedish already has tons of sibilants and a simple tone system, if Swedish repeated the processes that made it different from Old Swedish it would go in "Chinese" like direction I think.

Are you going in that direction with your conlang?

[Alomar]

Are the past perfect and the past progressive dissappearing in American English?

Definitely not! I use them frequently. The past perfect is rarer, certainly, but not going away entirely. I think I use the past progressive every day.

[Br0shaan]

well if my dialect of swedish would spread, we would end up with verbs with person forms
ätja, ät(d)u, ätje, ätan, äton. Hä ätja ganska lätt. (That eat-I pretty easily) instead of "jag äter det ganska lätt"

This is kinda happening in regular swedish aswell, like "vart skaru (fara)" "where are-you going to go" or "vart gåru?" (Where go-you?) but I think it only happens in "du" in regular swedish and only in questions.

[HinGambleGoth]

This is kinda happening in regular swedish aswell, like "vart skaru (fara)" "where are-you going to go" or "vart gåru?" (Where go-you?) but I think it only happens in "du" in regular swedish and only in questions.

Turning /d/ into a flap intervocalicaly as "laziness-sandhi" is also common in English, in Swedish, very few Swedish dialects actually have clearly audible trilled r:s anyway, Stocholm/mälardalian Swedish has "English" [ɹ] I think it is possible that central Swedish will turn non-rhotic with only the retroflexes on the following coronals remaining of the final r:s.

[Br0shaan]

This is kinda happening in regular swedish aswell, like "vart skaru (fara)" "where are-you going to go" or "vart gåru?" (Where go-you?) but I think it only happens in "du" in regular swedish and only in questions.

Turning /d/ into a flap intervocalicaly as "laziness-sandhi" is also common in English, in Swedish, very few Swedish dialects actually have clearly audible trilled r:s anyway, Stocholm/mälardalian Swedish has "English" [ɹ] I think it is possible that central Swedish will turn non-rhotic with only the retroflexes on the following coronals remaining of the final r:s.

Not quite the same thing, unless south sweden went full english mode? the only time I would pronounce d as r would be where two words combine into one.
hade som exempel: /ha.dɛ/ inte /ha.ɾɛ/ men /skɑː dʉː/ blir /skɑː.ɾɵ/

[threecat]

What are some realistic sound changes for a Kalaallisut descendant spokem 700 years from now?

[Prinsessa]

This is kinda happening in regular swedish aswell, like "vart skaru (fara)" "where are-you going to go" or "vart gåru?" (Where go-you?) but I think it only happens in "du" in regular swedish and only in questions.

Turning /d/ into a flap intervocalicaly as "laziness-sandhi" is also common in English, in Swedish, very few Swedish dialects actually have clearly audible trilled r:s anyway, Stocholm/mälardalian Swedish has "English" [ɹ] I think it is possible that central Swedish will turn non-rhotic with only the retroflexes on the following coronals remaining of the final r:s.

Not quite the same thing, unless south sweden went full english mode? the only time I would pronounce d as r would be where two words combine into one.
hade som exempel: /ha.dɛ/ inte /ha.ɾɛ/ men /skɑː dʉː/ blir /skɑː.ɾɵ/

you accidentally the english by the end of that post :p

i use retroflex d~l~whatever for that sort of sandhi, but only when there's an actual r (so "skall du…" is something like "sa dô…" with a regular d still, possibly partially or fully geminated now that I think of it, with a shortened a (so "saddô…", I suppose)).

[Casidhe]

I'm working on a con-creole of English and Icelandic for a future setting, inspired by David J. Peterson's Trigedasleng. Here's the Babel Text; feel free to ask any questions about grammar etc. :)

Spoiler:

Now the whole earth had one language and the same words. And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly.” And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech.” So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.

Nou all jurthun don haf ena spraka an sama ortha. An mid men don kom fra austa, dem don fina mesan in lan af Sjina an don lejin thar. An dem don sej at dem, “Kom, oso ger bristouns, an hela bren dem.” An dem don haf bristoun fur stoun, an betamen fur mudran. Tha dem don sej, “Kom, oso ger burgen an touran mid topa in skaia, an oso ger nama fur oso, ifal oso sundratt rount all jurthun.” An Sjifan don kom nedr fur sjei burgen an touran, det litluns af men don ger. An Sjifan don sej, “Luk, dem bi ena men, an all dem haf ena spraka, an des bi bar stata af vad dem gon ger. An inga det dem lega fur ger gon bi omlit fur dem. Kom, oso gon gang nedr an thar oso gon trufl dem spraka, sau dem ne gon skil dem spraka.” So Sjifan don sundra dem fra thar om all jurthun, an dem don haet ger burgen. Hjerfor ed nama don heit Bebul, eftfor thar Sjifan don trufl spraka af all jurthun. An fra thar Sjifan don sundra dem om all jurthun.

[HinGambleGoth]

I'm working on a con-creole of English and Icelandic for a future setting, inspired by David J. Peterson's Trigedasleng. Here's the Babel Text; feel free to ask any questions about grammar etc. :)

Spoiler:

Now the whole earth had one language and the same words. And as people migrated from the east, they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. And they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks, and burn them thoroughly.” And they had brick for stone, and bitumen for mortar. Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.” And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of man had built. And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another’s speech.” So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.

Nou all jurthun don haf ena spraka an sama ortha. An mid men don kom fra austa, dem don fina mesan in lan af Sjina an don lejin thar. An dem don sej at dem, “Kom, oso ger bristouns, an hela bren dem.” An dem don haf bristoun fur stoun, an betamen fur mudran. Tha dem don sej, “Kom, oso ger burgen an touran mid topa in skaia, an oso ger nama fur oso, ifal oso sundratt rount all jurthun.” An Sjifan don kom nedr fur sjei burgen an touran, det litluns af men don ger. An Sjifan don sej, “Luk, dem bi ena men, an all dem haf ena spraka, an des bi bar stata af vad dem gon ger. An inga det dem lega fur ger gon bi omlit fur dem. Kom, oso gon gang nedr an thar oso gon trufl dem spraka, sau dem ne gon skil dem spraka.” So Sjifan don sundra dem fra thar om all jurthun, an dem don haet ger burgen. Hjerfor ed nama don heit Bebul, eftfor thar Sjifan don trufl spraka af all jurthun. An fra thar Sjifan don sundra dem om all jurthun.

Loks like some norweigan or northern swedish dialect.

[GrandPiano]

Some things that I feel could happen to Mandarin in the future:

• 个/個 gè becomes the only classifier.
• /ŋ/ merges with /n/, creating a phonemic distinction between [a] and [ɑ] before the newly-merged /n/.
• Perhaps coda nasals are dropped entirely, creating nasality distinction. In this case, /ã/ and /ɑ̃/ would exist as phonemes, but there would be only one oral equivalent, a central /a/. I'm not sure if [jɛn] and [ɥɛn] would become [jɛ̃] and [ɥɛ̃] or do what they do in erhua and become [jã] and [ɥã].
• /t͡s/ becomes /z/ (even though the standard pronunciation of the phoneme is [t͡s], I hear some speakers who I think are native pronounce it as /z/).
• 一个/一個 yí ge becomes a single word that serves as an indefinite article.
• Unaspirated stops are consistently voiced intervocally.

[Creyeditor]

Some things that I feel could happen to Mandarin in the future:

• 个/個 gè becomes the only classifier.
• /ŋ/ merges with /n/, creating a phonemic distinction between [a] and [ɑ] before the newly-merged /n/.
• Perhaps coda nasals are dropped entirely, creating nasality distinction. In this case, /ã/ and /ɑ̃/ would exist as phonemes, but there would be only one oral equivalent, a central /a/. I'm not sure if [jɛn] and [ɥɛn] would become [jɛ̃] and [ɥɛ̃] or do what they do in erhua and become [jã] and [ɥã].
• /t͡s/ becomes /z/ (even though the standard pronunciation of the phoneme is [t͡s], I hear some speakers who I think are native pronounce it as /z/).
• 一个/一個 yí ge becomes a single word that serves as an indefinite article.
• Unaspirated stops are consistently voiced intervocally.

I agree with the first, and the last two points. However, I would think, that only one of the nasals disappears and leaves only nasalization as a trace, while the other one might assimilate in POA to a following consonant, even across word boundaries.

[Znex]

Some things that I feel could happen to Mandarin in the future:

• 个/個 gè becomes the only classifier.
• /ŋ/ merges with /n/, creating a phonemic distinction between [a] and [ɑ] before the newly-merged /n/.
• Perhaps coda nasals are dropped entirely, creating nasality distinction. In this case, /ã/ and /ɑ̃/ would exist as phonemes, but there would be only one oral equivalent, a central /a/. I'm not sure if [jɛn] and [ɥɛn] would become [jɛ̃] and [ɥɛ̃] or do what they do in erhua and become [jã] and [ɥã].
• /t͡s/ becomes /z/ (even though the standard pronunciation of the phoneme is [t͡s], I hear some speakers who I think are native pronounce it as /z/).
• 一个/一個 yí ge becomes a single word that serves as an indefinite article.
• Unaspirated stops are consistently voiced intervocally.

I agree with the first, and the last two points. However, I would think, that only one of the nasals disappears and leaves only nasalization as a trace, while the other one might assimilate in POA to a following consonant, even across word boundaries.

Yeah, I'd think /n/'s already on its way out as a word-final stop. Most speakers I've met tend to only really nasalise the vowel without pronouncing any stop.

/ŋ/ however will probably stick around, if it doesn't leave behind nasalisation as well plus POA altering of its vowel.

[GrandPiano]

I can kind of see the first-person pronoun 我 wǒ becoming a verbal prefix w(o)-, so that 我爱 wǒ ài "I love" becomes wài. What do you guys think?