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 Post subject: Re: Early old norse.
PostPosted: Fri 19 May 2017, 21:25 
greek
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Joined: Tue 01 Jul 2014, 04:29
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Regarding the word hross, it actually shifted around the vowel and consonant in Old Swedish, much like English, yielding hors. I do not know if it is attested in danish though, and it is possible that both variants coexisted, russ is also found in Swedish.

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 Post subject: Re: Early old norse.
PostPosted: Sat 20 May 2017, 13:32 
rupestrian
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Joined: Tue 21 Feb 2017, 15:28
Posts: 4
I searched Rundata for the 10 synonyms for horse that I found on Perseus, which is based solely on Zoega. (Thus labeled ON, but really OIc.). These were ess, hestr, fakr, drasill, hross, kapall, klarr, marr, skjotr, and skær.

Hross did not appear. Ros turned up as an element of a name in an inscription from the Isle of Man dated 950-1000. Hardly East Old Norse.

None of the other synonyms turned up anything except hestr, which appeared in the forms hæstr, hect, hesti, and histr. Only hesti is Danish, from Lund dated 1100-1150. Histr from Ostergotland dates to 800.

Thank you for posting on EON. I will be back with another try at loan words for Danes in Britain in 878, this time derived from Rundata as well as from modifications of OWN.


Last edited by Bill on Sat 20 May 2017, 15:37, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Early old norse.
PostPosted: Sat 20 May 2017, 13:56 
earth
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Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 01:57
Posts: 7099
HinGambleGoth wrote:
Regarding the word hross, it actually shifted around the vowel and consonant in Old Swedish, much like English, yielding hors. I do not know if it is attested in danish though, and it is possible that both variants coexisted, russ is also found in Swedish.


Oddly enough, the :eng: word arse goes through a similar rhotic sleight of hand in Caribbean English (patois).
I had a girlfriend from Guyana, and she always used to say things like [je.ɹɒs] which I analyzed mentally as just "yer ass".
But then she'd say something like [bɪg fɔɁ ɹɒs], and clearly she was pronouncing it as /rass/.

:wat:


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 Post subject: Re: Early old norse.
PostPosted: Tue 23 May 2017, 17:13 
rupestrian
rupestrian

Joined: Tue 21 Feb 2017, 15:28
Posts: 4
As noted above, I am threading a few Norse loan words into a literary work set among Danes and West Saxons in 9th century Wessex. Upon discovering that what we conventionally call Old Norse is really Old West Norse, I set out to adjust my loan words to more accurately represent the Old East Norse spoken by the Danes in Britain in the 9th c. In his very generous commentary on the results, Ephraim concluded that on the whole the results resembled 13th and 14th c. Old Swedish more than 9th c. Old Danish. I therefore took another approach to the task, using the Rundata database to find equivalent vocabulary, operating on the assumption that most of the rune inscriptions come from earlier periods when OEN and OWN were not as differentiated as they later were.

This was a laborious process but very instructive. I will be satisfied if, on the whole, the collection is closer to a hypothetical 9th c. Danish than the previous effort. Remember my goal is aesthetic, not scientific, not that the two don't overlap. If a reader is a linguist, I would hope he or she would say, "that's interesting," rather than, "that's ridiculous."

The result is a fusion of conlang and natlang. I have put the more hypothetical results in parenthesis, though some of the unparenthesized results are also artificial, e.g., based on compounds found in names. Any comments are welcome:

OWN, "OEN"
ænglar, iklar
afi, afi
afrendi, (afreti)
afspringi, (afspriki)
alfr, alfr
allkynligr, (aluntarlikr)
almr, (almr)
and, ont
andaligr, (otalikr)
arfi, arfi
arfi, irfi
as, ass
banahǫgg, (banahak)
barn, barn, bærn
benlaxar, (benlaksar)
berserkr, (ber)serkr
biskup, biskub
bjarndyr, biarntiur
Bjorn, biurn, biorn
bjǫrn, biarn
bjorr, (bior)
bloð, bloþ
bokstafar, bok(stafar)
bonda, buta, bunta
borðveggr, borþ(væggr)
borg, burk
borðborg, borþburk
brœðr, bruþr
brokkr, (brokr)
broþur, bruþur
bruðr, (bruþr)
brynjur, (bryniur)
bukkr, buka
commendo, komændo
dagr, (takr)
Danir , Tani
Danmarkar, Tanmarkar, Tanmaurk
Danskar, (Tanskar)
dauði, tauþi
dauðr, tauþr, tauþ, tuþr, tauþan, dauþum, toþr, tyþr,
djǫflar, (tiaflar)
dolg, tulka
domine, tomina
domsdagr, (tumstakr)
dottir, totur
dottir, tutir
draugr, draukr
draugr, traukr, traukh
dreng, trik
dreng, trik, tregr, trak, trenkr
drengjar, trekiarþ, trikar
drottinn, trutin
drottning, trutnik
drottning, trutnik, trutin, trunik
dyrð, tyrþ
dyrr, turum
eilift, eilifr
eggleikr, (eklaikir)
ek vill, giak uil
ekkja, ankia
erkibiskup, ærkibiskub
eyland, (œilat)
faðir, faþur
felag, filaka, felaka, filakr
fetur, (fitur)
fill, (fill)
fjandi, fiati
fjar, fiar
fjell, (fial)
fjon, fion
flein, (flen)
flotnar, (flutnar)
fǫðurbroðir, faþurbruþur
folk, fulks
forungi, furugi, forunki
frænda, fronti
frændur, frent(ur), frint(r)
freyja, froia
freyjur, (froiur)
friðr, friþr
Frislands, Frislats
fylgia, fulkþu, (fulkia)
fyrðar, (fyrþar)
gamall, kamal
geirar, keir(ar)
gesus, jesus
gimsteinar, (gim)sten(a)r
gisl, kisl
Gormr, Kurmr
goþablot, kuþa(blot)
grasgarðr, graskarþr
greip, krib
gremi, (kram)
grikklandi, kriklati
Grimr, Krimr
grœn, grøn
grǫf, (kraf)
grøf, (kraf)
gumi, kumna
gumnar, kumna(r)
gunneld, (kunælt)
Guþ, Kuþ
hændur, hantum, hontum
Halfdan, Halftan
halr, halr
halr, halr
halsar, hals(ar)
Harald, Haralt
haugr, hauk(r), houhr, huki, hauk
Heiðaby, Haithabu
heilagr, hæilagr, hæilahu, hailum
heilög, hailak
Heilög, Hailhe
heimar, haima(r)
heimr, hæimr, aimi
heimþegi, himþaki, himþiki
Helgi, Helki
Hemming, Henmikr
herop, (hærob)
herra, her, hæra, hir
herrkumbl, hærkubl
herrmaðr, hærmaþr
hersir, hirsi
hestr, hæstr, histr, hesti, hect
hildiborð, (hiltiborþ)
hiltr, urusta, orustu, urustu, uristr
himinn, hifni, ifna
himins, hifns
Himnadrottinn, Ifnatrutin
hjaldr Tyr, (hiltr Tiur)
hjalmr, hialmr
hjarðir, (hiarþir)
hjǫrðir, (polokar), (sauþir)
hlaðar, laþ(ar)
hǫfðingi, (hufþik)
hǫfuð, hofoþ
hǫldr, (haldr)
hǫll, (hal)
hrafn, hrafna
hringa, (ringa)
Hroðulf, Ruulf
Hrolfr, Rolfr
hrør, nos, (nar)
hross, hect, hæstr, histr, hesti
Hrundar, (Hrudar)
hryggr, ruk
hundar, (hutar)
huskarlar, huskarlar, uskarl
hvaljarð, hvaliarþ
hvita, huita, hoita
Hvitakristr, Huitakristr
i, i
iatunn, iatun
ikorni, (ikoni)
jor, iu
Ivar, Iuar, Ikuar
jarlar, iarlar
joð, (iuþ)
jǫfurr, iufur
jorð, iarþ
jǫtnar, (iatnar)
jǫtunn, iatun
kalkr, kalkan
kap, (kab)
keisari, (kæsar)
kirkja, kirkia, kirikiu
kona, kuno
konungr, kunukr
konungr, kunukr, kunukar (pl.)
konur, (kunur)
koppr, (kobr), kar, skal
krist, krist
kristinn, kristno, kristn, kristnum
kristr, kristr
kross, krus
kyr, (kiur)
kumbl, kubl
kvenn, kuin
kvinna, kuino, kuinu
kyrjur, (kyrriu)
land, lant, lat
langabarði, lakbarþi
langstaðinn, (lakstaþ)
leiðvollr, (laiþualr)
lið, liþ
lif, lif
liufr, liuf(r)
maðr, maþr, mantr
Mariu Sonr, Mario Sun
meiðmar, (meþmar), ualraubar
mekt, (maht)
men, mæn, men, min, mænn, menr
mina, mina
miskunn, miskun, meskn
moðir, muþur
mǫgr, mogr, makur
morðingjar, myrþ(ingiar)
munkr, mokr
myrar, miur(ar)
nafn, nafn
naut, naut
nautr, (nautr)
nei, (nei)
øl, aul
ormr, ormr
otr, utr
ovinir, (uuinir)
øx, øhse
penningr, (penikr)
prestr, brestr
profastr, provastar
pund, pund
rað, raþ
regin, (rein)
regn, (rægn)
rœðar, (reþar)
rør, nos, (nar), (hrer), (hrør)
sal, sil, siol, siolu, sialu, sol
samsinnar, (filakar)
sæði, (saþ)
sauðir, (sauþir)
Selund, (Siulunt)
serkland, serklat
Sigtyr, Siktiur
Sigurðr, Sikurþr
sjǫtulbjarnar, (siotulbirnir)
skald, skalt
skapsmið, (skæpsmiþ
skegg, (skag)
skipaherr, (skibhær)
skiparar, skibar(ar), skibin, skipliþ
skipari, skibara, skibarr
skjǫld, skiald
skratte, (skrati)
snakr, (snakr)
snotir, snot(ir)
søkudolgar, (saku)tulk(ar)
sǫngr, søk(r)
sonarsonr, sunarsun(r)
sonr, sun, son, sunr
sonum, sunum
sör, (sar)
spejari, (speiari)
stafkarlar, (stafkarlar)
stein, stin, stain, stan, stæin, stanir
stjupmoður, stiubmoþur
stjorar, sturman
stǫll, (stal)
strǫnd, stront
styra, sturimatr
styrimaðr, sturimatr
suðrdana, suþrtana
suðrmenn, suþrmæn
sveinar, suinar, sueinar
sverð, suiarþ
sverð, suirþ
svin, (suin)
synir, sunir
syr, (siur)
systar, sustur
systling, sustlik
þegn, þiakn, þign, þiaknar (pl.)
þengill, þekil
þinar, þina
þing, þikum
þingalið, þikaliþi
þoka, (þoku)
þoptar, aldaþoptar, þofti
þorr, þor
þral, (þral)
þriðjungr, (þriþiukr)
þund, þundar
þusund, þusinn
tjald, (tiald)
treborg, (treburg)
treman, (tremaþr)
tunnr, (tundr)
Tyr, Tiur, Tur, Tir
udauðligr, (utauþlikr)
ulfr, ulfr
ull, (ul)
under, (undir)
utboðabref, (utboþabref)
vagn, uahn
valfaðir, ualfaþur
vapn, uabn
vegir, uak(ir)
vegir, uik(ir)
ver, uiar, uar, uer, uir
verð, uarþ
verǫld, (uaralt)
vinr, uinr
visla, (uisla)


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