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PostPosted: Wed 22 May 2013, 21:16 
greek
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How does reduplication arise? Do different kinds of reduplication (onset only, onset+nucleus, nucleus+coda, etc.) come into being differently? How is grammatical or derivational meaning assigned to reduplication? Does the reduplication typically affect only the root, or also derivational andor inflexional affixes?


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PostPosted: Wed 22 May 2013, 21:25 
runic
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Reduplication!
Wow!

Cannot get enough of it.
Loved to find out about it in that strange, small subset of :lat: perfect verbs.
Then onto the plethora of whacky-cool perfect (statives, et al.) verbs in :grc:.
Also those funky living-fossil preterite verbs in Strong Verb VII category in :got:.

Also productive as a plural-marker for nouns in some languages [O.O]

I use it in Rozwi to amplify or generalize correlatives.
E.g.

ki - "now, right now"
kiki - "nowadays, generally"

Even the geminating consonants in Ancient Egyptian triliteral stems might be considered a kind of reduplication (?!)

It's awesome.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 May 2013, 23:24 
roman
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Reduplication is an iconic process. This might be one way how it comes into being:
    I have a "skrmpf", say "skrmpf", I have two or more "skrmpf", say "skrmpf-skrmpf"
    Is this a real "skrmpf" or a fake "skrmpf", no it's a "skrmpf-skrmpf" no fake
    Did he really "skrmpf" it or did he just try it? No he "skrmpf-skrmpf"ed (This is how I imagine perfective reduplication [;)] )
The rest (onset, final, ...) is simplification, I would say.
If derivation is/was applied before the reduplicaton, it might be reduplicated. If it goes ater that, it might be added to the reduplicated root.
Nothing I really know, just what I remember from the Conlangery Episode 54

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PostPosted: Wed 22 May 2013, 23:39 
sinic
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nmn wrote:
How does reduplication arise? Do different kinds of reduplication (onset only, onset+nucleus, nucleus+coda, etc.) come into being differently? How is grammatical or derivational meaning assigned to reduplication? Does the reduplication typically affect only the root, or also derivational andor inflexional affixes?

In Hebrew, at least modern one, reduplication can sometimes be witnessed occurring in various additive suffixes, or roots for that matter.

For example, the word for "bitter" is /mar/. Because bi-roots aren't allowed in Hebrew, people just took m-r, duplicated it into m-r-m-r, and got a root, from which we now can derive "to be bitter," "to make someone/something bitter," (bitter being both taste-wise and emotion-wise). This is very common in native Semitic or Hebrew roots, this reduplication.

It can also be used for diminutives, for example "doggy." "Dog" is /kelev/, but "doggy" is /klavlav/, the l-b being reduplicated here. I believe here it uses the nucleus+coda thing, with some alterations.

I hope this answers at least some of your question. I could be wrong here, but I know that this is the case with m-r and roots of that sort.

NOTE: Hebrew grammar and whatnot is not my forte so I could be terribly, terribly wrong here. Just maybe.


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PostPosted: Thu 23 May 2013, 00:16 
hieroglyphic
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I don't think it needs grammatical precedent to arise. It can arise spontaneously with a few speakers, and possibly spread from there. Even English uses reduplication, particularly in colloquial speech. We may say "We've got big, big problems," or "He keeps on talking and talking (and talking)." Nicknames can also do this (John F. Kennedy Jr., aka "John-John" comes to mind) and diminutives ("kitty cat"). If enough people do this, it can become standardized. English just seems to have cast reduplication as a marker of informality, so it is difficult for it to penetrate deeper into other registers.


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PostPosted: Thu 23 May 2013, 00:24 
runic
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Iron wrote:
nmn wrote:
How does reduplication arise? Do different kinds of reduplication (onset only, onset+nucleus, nucleus+coda, etc.) come into being differently? How is grammatical or derivational meaning assigned to reduplication? Does the reduplication typically affect only the root, or also derivational andor inflexional affixes?

In Hebrew, at least modern one, reduplication can sometimes be witnessed occurring in various additive suffixes, or roots for that matter.

For example, the word for "bitter" is /mar/. Because bi-roots aren't allowed in Hebrew, people just took m-r, duplicated it into m-r-m-r, and got a root, from which we now can derive "to be bitter," "to make someone/something bitter," (bitter being both taste-wise and emotion-wise). This is very common in native Semitic or Hebrew roots, this reduplication.



Great example. How about מָרוֹר‎ /mārôr/ "bitter herb" :?: Would that also be reduplication, Iron?

BTW,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khreyn
Without equal! [tick] [<3] [:P]




in Rozwi, some verbs also undergo a partial reduplication for ADJZ and NMLZ forms.

1) ADJZ form in which the first two consonants are redupled after the stem

v-z-t “to live”

veztiviza “alive, living”

d-χ-r “to approach”

deχridiχa “close at hand, imminent”

n-d-d “to give”

neddinida “altruistic”

2) NMLZ form in which the second consonant of a stem is redupled before the stem


v-z-t “to live” : ziveztau “life”

d-χ-r “to approach” : χideχrau “approach, arrival”

n-d-d “to give” : dineddau “bequest, gift”

θ-n-d “to experience, to suffer” : niθendau “involvement”

Not all verbs do this, however. Only the ones above do this, and maybe 2~3 others (so far...) [;)]


Last edited by Lambuzhao on Thu 23 May 2013, 00:44, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 23 May 2013, 00:41 
sinic
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No, actually. It's from the root m-r-r, which is of course related. The word /maror/ (forgive me if I don't bother using accents, I don't really hear any difference and thus see no point in them) comes from the Tanakh, but in its plural form /mrorim/ (because vowel syncope of the first vowel occurs a lot in Hebrew, and -im is the plural suffix for masculine nouns, /maror/ is the singular word). I can only assume that the root m-r-r is from this word, and m-r-m-r is from /mar/, which is by itself a simplification of /maror/. I GUESS.

I did in fact bothered checking the Hebrew wiktionary, and it turns out that I was right on account of m-r-m-r being taken from the word /mar/, due to reduplication.

Quote:

I can assure you that this tastes terrible. It's funny, because the Russian word for it (/xrjen/) is also slang for "penis." But it still tastes bad.


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