False cognates

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clawgrip
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Re: False cognates

Post by clawgrip »

Alessio wrote:Ha, just found another one.

:jpn: 取る toru - to take
:ita: (Emilian local language) tōr - to take

Note that the <u> in <toru> is nearly silent.
The /u/ in 取る toru is always voiced and clearly pronounced.
All4Ɇn wrote::jpn: 可愛いkawaii- cute
:jpn: 可愛ka ai- passable love or :chn: 可愛kě'ài- lovable
可愛い kawaii is etymologically Chinese, so this is a true cognate, not a false one.


Looks like I was too slow on the 攝 thing. It is indeed a simplified in Japanese as 摂. Three identical elements sometimes get simplified as that X thing plus one copy (cf. 澁 → 渋, 壘 → 塁).
Last edited by clawgrip on 20 Apr 2017 15:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Lao Kou »

clawgrip wrote:Looks like I was too slow on the 攝 thing. It is indeed a simplified in Japanese as 摂.
And apparently, can also be read as toru (as in: 食事を摂る). Mind, I'd be keeping my big bazoo shut if "photography" were written 摂影 -- wouldn't be loving it, natch, but wouldn't be wringing the life out of a tea towel, either.
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名可名,非常名
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Re: False cognates

Post by clawgrip »

I really only know 摂 from 摂津 Settsu, an old Japanese province.
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Lao Kou
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Re: False cognates

Post by Lao Kou »

clawgrip wrote:I really only know 摂 from 摂津 Settsu, an old Japanese province.
From what you and GrandPiano have described, this is where 摂 gets the bulk of its airplay.
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Re: False cognates

Post by MrKrov »

clawgrip wrote:可愛い kawaii is etymologically Chinese, so this is a true cognate, not a false one.
wiktionary per 可愛い wrote:Shift in pronunciation from kawayui below.[1]

The kanji spelling 可愛い is an example of ateji (当て字), and uses an irregular reading of 愛. The phonological resemblance to Chinese 可愛 (kě'ài, “lovable”) is coincidental. Note that the medial -w- here is not an excrescence added between ka (可) and ai (愛), since the word is not formed from these morphemes.
...
A contraction of classical 顔映し /kahahayushi/ → /kahayushi/.[1] Medial /ha/ becomes [wa] via synchronic phonological processes. It is unclear if the word before contraction was initially realized as *[kahahayushi] or as *[kawawayushi].
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Re: False cognates

Post by All4Ɇn »

Whoops just saw MrKrov's post above
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Re: False cognates

Post by clawgrip »

Well there you go, guess I should have looked that one up. That w was highly suspicious, after all.
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano »

:chn: Zhuang dou "door" (Sawndip 都 or 偷*) - :eng: door

*There is one more Sawndip character according to Wiktionary, but I get an error message if I try to include it in this post; see here.
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Re: False cognates

Post by DesEsseintes »

I don't think I've seen this mentioned:

Malay: muka n. face

Japanese: 向かう mukau v. to face
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Re: False cognates

Post by k1234567890y »

English woman and Old Japanese /womi1na/ "woman"
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano »

:por: cão "dog" - :chn: 狗 gǒu "dog"
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Re: False cognates

Post by All4Ɇn »

:vie: cổ "neck"
:fra: cou "neck"
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Re: False cognates

Post by clawgrip »

Not sure if it was mentioned or not, but:

:eng: so "in this/that/the stated manner"
:jpn: "in that/the stated manner"

This one always stood out to me.

e.g.

そう思う。
Sō omou.

"I think so."
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano »

I think I mentioned that one a while ago - or if I didn't, I meant to. Definitely an interesting coincidence.

Perhaps one could also add :esp: así "so" (same as :jpn: そう or こう).
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Re: False cognates

Post by clawgrip »

(Don't forget ああ).

But how is así similar to these words?
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Re: False cognates

Post by DesEsseintes »

clawgrip wrote:(Don't forget ああ).

But how is así similar to these words?
[+1]
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano »

clawgrip wrote:(Don't forget ああ).

But how is así similar to these words?
If you take away the /a/ at the beginning, it follows the same phonological structure of /sV/. Considering the meanings are exactly the same, I don't think it's too much of a stretch.
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Re: False cognates

Post by All4Ɇn »

:vie: Jurai hờnǐ "honey"
:eng: honey
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Re: False cognates

Post by Creyeditor »

:idn: :mys: :sgp: Bahasa Indonesia, Bahasa Melayu, etc. jangan don't (prohibitive)
:cmr: Bulu ndʒáŋán missing (negative existence)
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Re: False cognates

Post by qwed117 »

:eng: volley ~ :ell: βᾰ́λλω "to throw" (/val.lo/ in 10th Century Byzantine)
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