Massive Writing Systems Chart

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masako
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by masako »

DesEsseintes wrote:To stem the tide of negativity in this thread
So, wanting academic rigor is negativity? OK, now I know.
DesEsseintes wrote:Good for you if you have found a way to make money from something related to linguistics!
Something which, as mentioned before, is readily and easily available for free all over the web...with more accuracy and inclusiveness I might add.
DesEsseintes wrote:It could be useful in a classroom environment, for example.
Do you mean the classrooms with interenet access? The poster is in English, which basically means it would be most "useful" in developed countries, most of which are technologically savvy enough that even elementary (primary) schools are equiped with wi-fi and allow students ample time with access to the web; see above.
DesEsseintes wrote: Parents who would like to teach their children about linguistic diversity might find the poster helpful too.
The poster is not a promotion of "linguistic diversity"...it's a half-assed chart that barely meets its own stated goals.
DesEsseintes wrote:As for the complaint voiced earlier that all the information on the poster is available online: Sure. However, not everyone has the time or the patience to hunt down information for hours on the internet, let alone then assemble it into one monster chart.
I submit to you that anyone who is curious enough to buy this poster most definitely has the time and most assuredly the patience to "hunt down" information. Also, suggesting it takes hours is disingenuous at best. It takes 30 seconds to link to a more-than-adequate link.
DesEsseintes wrote:You have therefore identified a niche, and if you manage to convince people that they have a need for your product, they will buy it.
The same niche that Simon Ager "identified" a few decades ago? Or for that matter, Larry Lo. Both of whom, it should be noted, haven't asked anyone for money, that I know of.
DesEsseintes wrote:Whether the members of this forum are your target demographic is another question which I will not try to answer, but please do not assume that masako speaks for all of us.
Nor should anyone assume that I was attempting to do so, or that anyone here speaks for me. Nice red herring, there.

I've made my point, and Mr. Baker has made his money, so I will exit the thread.

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GrandPiano
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by GrandPiano »

masako wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:To stem the tide of negativity in this thread
So, wanting academic rigor is negativity? OK, now I know.
I think DesEsseintes was referring to the overall tone in which you presented your comments, which seems to have gotten harsher with each of your posts in this thread. You seem to have made an effort to pick out every single flaw in matt434's work and criticize it, while, as far as I can find, the only positive thing you've said is that the post doesn't explicitly break any house rules. Constructive criticism is a very good thing; however, criticism is only constructive if it is intended to help someone improve, while (and correct my if I'm misinterpreting here) you seem rather intent on convincing matt434 why what he's made is wrong in every way and should never have been done in the first place (which I don't think is the case). Constructive criticism is also best accompanied by some sort of comment on some of the things that were done well, as DesEsseintes did, so that the recipient of the criticism isn't misled to think that they've done everything wrong.

My comments: I like the idea a lot, and while others have pointed out that there are mistakes in some places, it seems like you're open to suggestions and intend to have all errors corrected by the time it is distributed. I do think that $20 is a bit much to charge, though.

As for the information being readily available online: The same could be said of many informational posters. There are many posters being sold of things like a map of the world or the presidents of the United States (albeit for not nearly as high a price). I can easily find a map of the world or a list of US presidents online. Does that mean those posters shouldn't be sold?
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by Lambuzhao »

I don't want to seem negative, but as an actual language teacher, I have done a project similar to this when I taught World Cultures/Ancient History in Spanish.

I had 48 kids in class. In groups of three, the prepared one of 12 writing systems. The kids themselves researched about the writing system, it's history, phonology, ease/difficulty of use, continuance/extinction.

Each group made a poster of the language system with answers to questions as either a WORD.doc report, a PowerPoint presentation, or, in the case of Cuneiform, we did an artsy-craftsy workshop with modeling clay and lots and lots of chopstick-styluses (I still have nightmares of all those chopsticks).

The Egyptian Hieroglyph and Chinese Hanzi groups also did workshops. I was rooting for the Runes and Morse Code groups, but they didn't come thru [:S]

Oh yes, Arabic and N'ko groups also did workshops. The Celtic Alphabet group had us color in ornate Celtic Initial letters (a la Book of Kells). We learned a song (I think it was "Lean On Me" or "I believe I can Fly") with the ASL group.

There was an untold lot MORE ownership of the concepts of the writing systems, and examples of how to use them, and a number of systems were 'taken out for a spin' as it were in various media: paint, colors, clay & stylus.

It was a fun PROJECT-BASED learning experience. Not just a diorama. No offence. I love dioramas. I could definitely see this sort of poster hanging in my University faculty office, when I spread my wings and glide to the Ivory Tower.
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by Lambuzhao »

masako wrote:
Image
Image
Spoiler:
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To which I say:

Image

:con: Gen-lis Vuhlkansu
Sochya eh dif
Peace and Life!
clawgrip
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by clawgrip »

Lambuzhao wrote:Image

:con: Gen-lis Vuhlkansu
Sochya eh dif
Peace and Life!
Image
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elemtilas
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by elemtilas »

masako wrote:I don't doubt the work you did, but I think you might be overselling it. The charts that can be accessed on the web that could be used to reproduce this chart would take less than a day to accumulate. Having them all on one chart seems like a nifty idea, but it's hardly novel or even extremely useful...or at least no more useful than having a list of languages. A chart of writing systems doesn't begin to explain them adequately for what I would think of as inspiration.
Lambuzhao wrote:I don't want to seem negative, but as an actual language teacher, I have done a project similar to this when I taught World Cultures/Ancient History in Spanish.
Not negative at all, though I'm sure you're aware that there's a difference between the two projects. His is to create and provide an illustrative resource; yours was to actually teach & engage student learning through hands on practice. (I can still recall in our upper level Germanic studies classes at uni, we did similar projects: for one course I carved runes in stone (which has since ended up in the garden), another I copied a text onto (phake) parchment.) This is a great way to learn about different writing systems but is quite different from making a resource presentation of many forms of writing.

As regards the notion that this is a worthless endeavour (because the data on it can be accessed via google in a day or less) or that it isn't original or whatever (that among other better argued points): I don't see this as fundamentally any different than a periodic table. It's information that can be accessed in ten seconds or less and in a stunning variety of forms. Yet this doesn't stop Fisher Scientific from publishing wall charts, notebook charts, laminated charts, charts with more or less information on them. It's just another way to present information. As far as that goes, kudos to the OP for doing the work! I don't see after a quick search any other kind of poster or wall chart that offers this kind of information. But in masako's defence, for a poster to be even close to properly informational, it really needs to published as a book. But, oh yeah...there are already half a dozen or more books out there that do exactly what this chart does, essentially, expose people to different writing systems. Scores of them. Far more than can ever be fit onto a single big piece of paper!

There are already some extremely legitimate and constructive criticisms about the poster, so I won't rehash those. I would like to see improved sections on very early writing: cuneiform (syllabaries) and hieroglyphic script. If it's your intent to instruct people on the "history of English (script)", then cuneiform at least should be highlighted.

The lack of any mention of Mongol is a shame. I'd vote for a paring down of Indian scripts and the inclusion of a couple more modern and historical ones. Especially American ones --- Mayan, didn't see that at all, Cherokee, Inuit, Deseret. It seems to me you're trying to do too many things in too small a space, and in so doing, you're kind of leaving out some important information.

I'd rather see a good sized chart filled with a really good sampling than a small one that leaves out a lot of informaion!
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GamerGeek
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by GamerGeek »

elemtilas wrote:for one course I carved runes in stone (which has since ended up in the garden)
You made me look up how to do it. Google is not helpful...
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elemtilas
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by elemtilas »

GamerGeek wrote:
elemtilas wrote:for one course I carved runes in stone (which has since ended up in the garden)
You made me look up how to do it. Google is not helpful...
Most of the videos seem to be about paganette "rune stones", those little bits of wood or stone you can buy at B&N in a bag for divination. (Never had much truck with that --- if you want to be a Pagan, go be a bloody Pagan already! None of this namby-pamby tree-hugging overly-romanticised neo-paleo-liberal nonsense.)

At summer camp, I also used to carve runes into the wooden picnic tables...

Needless to say, I commiserate with your frustration! All the videos seem to involve diamond wheel rotary tools or else wood burning kits. [cross] :mrred: [cross] :mrred: [cross] WRONG ANSWER!

This one's closest to what I did, though sans sheepskin shoulder wrap --- I didn't think to do on mine at the time! :mrgreen: --- just a rawhide mallet and a chisel: like this.

Carving runes in wood is easy --- all you need is a penknife. Oh, and a stick, staff or convenient picnic table! Just remember to sit perpendicular to the wood grain --- all your vertical & diagonal lines will cross the grain of the wood. You cán't mess this up! Well, what about the horizontal lines?, you ask...

Ah, [;)] you're too smart to be led down thát garden path!
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by Lambuzhao »

clawgrip wrote:
Lambuzhao wrote:Image

:con: Gen-lis Vuhlkansu
Sochya eh dif
Peace and Life!
Image
Romlastha, eh?

Jolan tru!
[>:)]
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