Massive Writing Systems Chart

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matt434
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Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by matt434 »

Apologies for the self promo, but I wanted to let you guys know about a chart that I just made. It's natlangs, not conlangs but I know that many conlangers look to natlangs for inspiration so I thought it might be of interest. If this post is inappropriate, please remove.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/us ... ld-poster
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by eldin raigmore »

Looks great!
If I had a classroom, I might have the wall-space to put one up; and the salary to buy one.
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(But I don't. [:'(] )
masako
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by masako »

Your post doesn't explicitly break any house rules, which, you might have read instead of simply including "If this post is inappropriate, please remove" in your post. However, I think it's kinda sad to ask for money for something as an initial post, especially something as unoriginal and easily found in multiple places on the web.

Also, I sorta think calling fingerspelling an "alternative to writing" is a tad harsh. The ASL community writes just fine, and they don't use dactylology as an "alternative" to anything. There are a few other critiques I would offer, but I think my point is made. $19.95 for what can be accessed on Wikipedia for free doesn't sound like much of a bargain to me.
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matt434
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by matt434 »

I did read the house rules. But I wasn't sure if it would be considered a helpful link or a commercial ad so that's why I went ahead and was simply upfront, leaving it to the mods to decide.

As for whether or not the poster is original or not, I do feel I have to defend myself a little bit. Sure, one can look up every single writing system on wikipedia or omniglot or something like that but nowhere that I know of can you get a chart of every single major writing system in the world on a single sheet of paper. That's the original part and it took a lot of love and work to do. I'm not some big company just looking for profit. I'm a one-man chart creator who likes to share his work with others who have similar interests.

Thanks for the comment about ASL though. I'll reach out to some other members of the ASL community and see what they think. I didn't mean to apply that ASL as a whole is an alternative to writing -- simply the 26 letter signs for the alphabet. I considered using "Non-written communication" as the header for that section but then Braille is considered a form of writing so ... ? Any ideas?
Salmoneus
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by Salmoneus »

Lots of people have made big posters of lots of writing systems, though. Admittedly, I've not seen one with chinese logographs on before, but then yours only has a few token chinese symbols on it anyway.

EDIT: Clawgrip, on this board, for instance, used to have a chart of about 120 different writing systems.
Last edited by Salmoneus on 01 Jun 2017 18:45, edited 1 time in total.
matt434
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by matt434 »

Cool. Can you send me links for the ones you know of? I'd love to compare other posters with what I've made...
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by masako »

matt434 wrote:Sure, one can look up every single writing system on wikipedia or omniglot or something like that but nowhere that I know of can you get a chart of every single major writing system in the world on a single sheet of paper. That's the original part and it took a lot of love and work to do.
I don't doubt the work you did, but I think you might be overselling it. The charts that can be accessed on the web that could be used to reproduce this chart would take less than a day to accumulate. Having them all on one chart seems like a nifty idea, but it's hardly novel or even extremely useful...or at least no more useful than having a list of languages. A chart of writing systems doesn't begin to explain them adequately for what I would think of as inspiration.
matt434 wrote:I considered using "Non-written communication" as the header for that section but then Braille is considered a form of writing so ... ? Any ideas?
Simply: "Alternate (26) letter systems" You can avoid the "26" as Braille, Morse, and semaphore (and sign for that matter) have more than 26.
Salmoneus wrote:Lots of people have made big posters of lots of writing systems, though. Admittedly, I've not seen one with chinese logographs on before, but then yours only has a few token chinese symbols on it anyway.
[+1]
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matt434
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by matt434 »

masako wrote:Simply: "Alternate (26) letter systems" You can avoid the "26" as Braille, Morse, and semaphore (and sign for that matter) have more than 26.
Good suggestion. Thanks.
Trewdub
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by Trewdub »

Wow, how neat! Thanks for posting!
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by clawgrip »

The links to my images are still around the boards, if you're up for hunting for them. They were only for Brahmic scripts and lacked vowels, as it was only the consonant chart I had made up to that point. I also need to rework the family tree of that image, but it's kind of annoying to do.
masako
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by masako »

Where is the Cherokee syllabary, or the Mongolian alphabet? Also, I can't read the headings of each section (they're too small on all the images that I can find), but I assume you mentioned in the Japanese and Korean sections that they also use Hanzi (Kanji and Hanja respectively)? Which leads me to wonder why you labeled the section "Chinese" in the first place...instead of, say, "Hanzi", or "Han characters"?

Not trying to be overly critical, just trying to rationalize paying $20 for an incomplete and under-informed chart.
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matt434
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by matt434 »

There are a lot of other systems I could have included and therefore some choices had to be made. I decided to go with the most widely used systems (and a few historical ones) and therefore Cherokee and Mongolian were left out. I'm already thinking of doing a Part 2 though, focusing on more rare and endangered systems.

Yes, Kanji and Hanja are mentioned.

I should note that the chart is currently being checked over by several linguists and some native speakers for various sections and therefore all errors found will be corrected and any suggestions for heading changes will be considered.
masako
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by masako »

matt434 wrote:There are a lot of other systems I could have included and therefore some choices had to be made.
So, just some random selections with no defined criteria?
matt434 wrote:Yes, Kanji and Hanja are mentioned.
How so? As I said, the images available are too small to read the text.
matt434 wrote:I should note that the chart is currently being checked over by several linguists and some native speakers for various sections and therefore all errors found will be corrected and any suggestions for heading changes will be considered.
So you want money for a product that was not vetted, or a product that is inadequate to the stated claims? I see.

If I come across as harsh it's only because this is a subject that I have studied thoroughly and take serious interest in. You want money for a readily accessible smidgen of information that you haven't rigorously prepared...and it just happens to be writing systems. If you had posted a chart about classic cars, or model airplanes I might not have even noticed. Don't take it personally, please.
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matt434
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by matt434 »

This is a Kickstarter project. The poster hasn't been printed yet. The way Kickstarter works is that people pledge money and then are only charged at the end of the campaign if the target amount has been reached (which in this case it already has). The image you see is only a preview. By the time it's printed, it will have been vetted and corrected.

The selections were not random. I chose the most widely used systems based on number of users and then included the historical ones that played a direct role in the development of English.
masako
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by masako »

matt434 wrote:...included the historical ones that played a direct role in the development of English.
You're serious?

Which writing system on that chart had anything to do with the "development of English"? You are aware that a writing system is not a language or vice versa? If you mean the writing systems that were borrowed, morphed, and changed into what is now called the [/url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_script]Latin script[/url], or Latin alphabet, then okay, but jeez, man, English has no native script.

Please, you've got your money, make a good chart, or y'know, learn more before asking for money.
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GamerGeek
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by GamerGeek »

masako wrote:but jeez, man, English has no native script.
Runic is the native script.
Ashtăr Balynestjăr
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by Ashtăr Balynestjăr »

GamerGeek wrote:
masako wrote:but jeez, man, English has no native script.
Runic is the native script.
Runic would the native script for Proto-Norse, later adopted for Old Norse and Old English, but since there's no orthography for Modern English with runes that is anywhere close to standard, it can't be a native script by any means.

The closest things English has to a native script would be Deseret and Shavian, I guess.
[ˈaʃt̪əɹ ˈbalɨˌnɛsʲtʲəɹ]
matt434
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by matt434 »

masako wrote:
matt434 wrote:You are aware that a writing system is not a language or vice versa? If you mean the writing systems that were borrowed, morphed, and changed into what is now called the [/url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_script]Latin script[/url], or Latin alphabet, then okay, but jeez, man, English has no native script.
Yes, sorry, I meant "the development of the letters that are used to spell modern English". I should have been more clear. I am fully aware that English has no native script and that the "English alphabet" is actually just a set of letters from the Latin alphabet.
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by DesEsseintes »

Hi, matt434.

To stem the tide of negativity in this thread: Good for you if you have found a way to make money from something related to linguistics! I believe enterprise is good, and I think kickstarter is an interesting concept that I wasn't aware of before you posted here.

I see many possible uses for your poster. It could be useful in a classroom environment, for example. Parents who would like to teach their children about linguistic diversity might find the poster helpful too. Another thing previous posters in this thread seem to overlook is that I believe you've made the poster aesthetically appealing, which can be valuable when the information on it is to be relayed to an audience that might not have a background in linguistics.

As for the complaint voiced earlier that all the information on the poster is available online: Sure. However, not everyone has the time or the patience to hunt down information for hours on the internet, let alone then assemble it into one monster chart. You have therefore identified a niche, and if you manage to convince people that they have a need for your product, they will buy it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. Whether the members of this forum are your target demographic is another question which I will not try to answer, but please do not assume that masako speaks for all of us.
matt434
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Re: Massive Writing Systems Chart

Post by matt434 »

Thanks DesEsseintes :)
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