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PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr 2012, 19:27 
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If the two languages do happen to be related, the relationship extends too far back in time for it to be readily apparent. The current evidence in favour of such a grouping is still very minimal and subject to debate.


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 Post subject: Glottal Fricative, H
PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2012, 08:20 
roman
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It is a quick question, how common is the H in languages? I tried on WALS but couldnt find that feature.

Modicone: Quick questions fit nicely in the quick question threads. [;)]

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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2012, 09:44 
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I don't know how common H is, but UPSID lists /h/ for 61.86% of its languages.


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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr 2012, 22:31 
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Avo wrote:
I don't know how common H is, but UPSID lists /h/ for 61.86% of its languages.


Assuming you meant the IPA's [ʜ], which is a voiceless epiglottal fricative, the only information I have is from Wikipedia, which says it occurs in Agul, in Dahalo, and in Haida.


Or possibly you meant the Z-SAMPA labiopalatal approximant. The IPA symbol is [ɥ]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labio-palatal_approximant#Occurrence says it occurs in Abkhaz, Mandarin, Korean, and French.


Looking in UPSID at the labiopalatal approximant ([H] in Z-SAMPA), the voiced labiopalatal fricative ([H_r] in Z-SAMPA), and the voiceless epiglottal fricative ([H\] in Z-SAMPA), I find UPSID has information only on the voiced labiopalatal approximant:
Sound: wj
Description: voiced labial-palatal approximant
Occurs in 6 languages
That is in 1.33% of all languages
Occurs in: AKAN, ALLADIAN, FRENCH, GA, LAKKIA, MANDARIN



Likely you didn't mean the voiceless pharyngeal fricative denoted by [ħ] in IPA, by [X\] in Z-SAMPA, and by [H] in Kirshenbaum's notation and in UPSID's notation. Nevertheless:
Sound: H
Description: voiceless pharyngeal fricative
Occurs in 19 languages
That is in 4.21% of all languages
Occurs in: ARABIC, ARCHI, ATAYAL, AVAR, BATS, BRAO, DAHALO, EWE, IRAQW, KABARDIAN, KURDISH, LAK, RUTUL, SHILHA, SOCOTRI, SOMALI, TAMA, TIGRE, TSESHAHT

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_pharyngeal_fricative#Occurrence shows it occurring in 15 languages.

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PostPosted: Fri 13 Apr 2012, 02:10 
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eldin raigmore wrote:
Avo wrote:
I don't know how common H is, but UPSID lists /h/ for 61.86% of its languages.


Assuming you meant the IPA's [ʜ], which is a voiceless epiglottal fricative, the only information I have is from Wikipedia, which says it occurs in Agul, in Dahalo, and in Haida.


It also occurs in Chechen, depending on your analysis of the language.


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PostPosted: Fri 13 Apr 2012, 19:05 
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Is there a kind soul that could to translate for me the lyrics of this song?

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PostPosted: Fri 13 Apr 2012, 19:48 
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Milyamd wrote:
Is there a kind soul that could to translate for me the lyrics of this song?

Into what target language? English? Polish?
(And btw what's the source language? Obviously I'm not one of the kind souls you were looking for.)

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PostPosted: Fri 13 Apr 2012, 21:01 
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Here are the lyrics in original, i.e. mixed Japanese-English. The whole English translation would be favourable.

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PostPosted: Sat 14 Apr 2012, 19:23 
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Milyamd wrote:
Here are the lyrics in original, i.e. mixed Japanese-English. The whole English translation would be favourable.


Here's what Google Translate gives; obviously it's pretty bad and not what you want, but it should give a hint about the gist.

The end of the dream sweet chocolate melted on the tongue of a grain
Whatever happens Don't forget to taste will surely give up outro.

Slowly losing everyday discursive Glowly Day by day
Dramatically exciting and every day I put cracks tedious repetition of that!
Once it was the best of school personnel or travel behavior have gone good boyfriend sacrifice housework per mast orientation
Mom said, well, right? Selfish it would ーーー N.
Standing "of life because you're not" know I put up with such favor Bakkari!
Next to go when you're done sucking talent so shiny
I also have difficulty in those cans, nothing bad, nothing Sawa Chan!

The end of the dream sweet chocolate melted on the tongue of a grain
Whatever happens Don't forget to taste will surely give up outro.

I think better than to keep replay end roll humble Out control
Everything I know do not want to hear yesterday unexpected surely go back.
Just love her contract, no contract, sure enough after all
Retreat was a little wider, and the residual heat left you, I think

Story of passing each other farewell meeting Can't stay without you, there are no more what I had spent all the time even?

The end of the dream sweet chocolate melted on the tongue of a grain
I disproportionate happy words I know that I'm never gonna change.
The end of the dream sweet chocolate melted on the tongue of a grain
Whatever happens Don't forget to taste will surely give up outro.

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PostPosted: Tue 17 Apr 2012, 01:34 
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Aszev wrote:
Does anyone know of any languages where the actual realization of vowels rids the language of phonetic back vowels?

Iirc, I've read somewhere a claim that Californian English would have that or at least come close to it.


Can you remember where you read that claim? It'd be a very interesting development if it was true.

It'd be interesting if anyone was aware of other "unusual" systems for vowel realisation. Like:
–A lang without rounded vowels.
–A lang without open vowels (no [a ɑ ɒ], or perhaps any other a-like vowel.)
–A lang without close vowels (no [i y ɨ ʉ ɯ u])
-Other unusual gaps on the level of phonetic realisation.

(Remember that we are speaking about the actual phonetic realisations, not merely the underlying phonemes.)

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PostPosted: Fri 20 Apr 2012, 18:16 
mayan
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If I have the construct state, must it only be marked on definite nouns?

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PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2012, 22:00 
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Solarius wrote:
If I have the construct state, must it only be marked on definite nouns?

That's up to you, but, generally, if something is possessed that means it's definite, or at least specific. (Exactly what makes something specific and exactly what makes something definite varies slightly, in details, from one language to another.)

But, AIUI, in Semitic languages, the construct state is a third alternative; there's definite, and there's indefinite, and there's construct. You might want to do the same; that would mean that nouns in the construct state would be neither definite nor indefinite in your language.

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PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2012, 23:07 
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Also when you have a 'regular' genitive case, you have a choice how to mark definiteness in genitive constructions. In English it would be ungrammatical to say 'John's the house', but in some languages it would be normal or even required with a definite marking of 'house' in that situation.

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PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2012, 20:22 
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How should I mark complementary distribution? The mark ~ apparently means free variation.

Is postulating a representative of the phoneme the only choise?
If I want to say [t] and [d] are allophones of one phoneme, how I do that?


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PostPosted: Sat 28 Apr 2012, 09:06 
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I am reading a nice book about historical Finnish morphology, and the author there says that there are languages that don't mark comparative degrees on adjectives at all; instead they use constructions like "I am than you good". Does anyone know when I can read more about this? Also, how do such languages express the superlative, then?

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PostPosted: Sat 28 Apr 2012, 09:18 
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Location: /ai/ > /a:/
http://wals.info/chapter/121 for comparatives. Superlatives, not so sure.

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PostPosted: Sat 28 Apr 2012, 11:30 
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Thanks. I don't know why I didn't think to look there.
However, information about superlatives would be appreciated, too.

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PostPosted: Sat 28 Apr 2012, 11:51 
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Maximillian wrote:
I am reading a nice book about historical Finnish morphology, and the author there says that there are languages that don't mark comparative degrees on adjectives at all; instead they use constructions like "I am than you good". Does anyone know when I can read more about this? Also, how do such languages express the superlative, then?

Which is that book?
Jùfjox own faj ònno?


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PostPosted: Sat 28 Apr 2012, 22:24 
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nmn wrote:
Which is that book?

It's in Russian; "Historical Morphology of the Finnish Language" by D.B. Bubrikh.
He also wrote a "Historical Phonology of the Finnish-Suomi Language", but I can't find it anywhere. [:'(]

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PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2012, 21:14 
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I repeat my question from the Uralic thread:
I've read that Proto-Uralic and some modern Uralic languages don't mark number on nouns marked for case.
So that, singular and plural is only distinguished in nominative (and maybe accusative?) case, but not in other cases.
Can someone point me on further information about this feature?

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